ATM's in China?
 

Does China (specifically Beijing, Shanghai, Hangzhou and Xian) accept the NYCE, Pulse, or Star networks for ATM's? I was told by my bank that they can't be sure the ATM card will work in China. They tell me I won't get a transaction fee from them, but up to Chinese ATM whether it's bank will incur a fee. Do you know if they do and how much it is?

Thanks!

I'm not familiar with Pulse - are you sure it isn't Plus network? I've used Plus network cards in China. I don't remember the Chinese ATM charging anything, but that was a few years ago.

Pulse are US only. For international, the two most common ones are Mastercard/Cirrus and VISA/Plus. If your ATM belongs to either, you're okay.

If not, get a VISA or MC checkcard from your bank. It's less safe, but you don't have a choice.

This is a debit card-Master Card. Does that mean I can use it in China? Why is it less safe?

All ATMs should have the Mastercard logo, so you're fine.

Well, one can buy stuff with a debit card anywhere that accepts MC. If it was stolen, it's easy and fast for the thieve to charge stuff to it, without needing a PIN. That's not the case with a old-fashioned ATM card.

And money is immediately taken out of your bank account, unlike credit card where you have time to dispute charges.

And debit cards to do have the fraud protections that credit cards have.

Yes, debit cards do have theft protection, but money is out of your account first, and it takes time to go back. Which may be a big problem in some circumstances.

I'm not saying one shouldn't use a debit card, and nowadays that's the only option you get from your bank. And the risk is still very low. But I'm stating that there is a difference.

[And for the record, I was a victim of identity theft about 10 years ago; and Charles Schwab lost a lot of money because of the debit card they gave me.]

rkkwan, most banks will issue you an ATM card rather than a debit card if you request it. My bank does it for me.

If you read the fraud protections on credit vs. debit cards, they are different. And, as you point out, it can take time for money to be replaced in your bank account (months, often) while a disputed credit card charge is held in abeyance.

A question, if somone has the patience.

We carry a Visa card that doubles as an ATM card; in other words, using our PIN we can withdraw money from an ATM, and use it at an EFTPOS terminal in a store, which debits the amount of our purchase to our account. It can be linked to either our savings or cheque acount.

So, I may be slow on the uptake here, but what exactly is the difference between an ATM card and a debit card? Up till now I assumed that the terms were interchangeable. Maybe it's a peculiarity of the American banking system, but even so I'd be interested to know.

Here in the US, an ATM card is one that doesn't have a VISA or Mastercard logo on its front. It can only be used to get cash at an ATM machine, or at some merchants (like most supermarkets and superstores) with a keypad for you to input the PIN.

But now, most banks by default will give you a VISA/Mastercard debit card (often also called a check card). [Kathie is correct - you can still request an old style ATM at many banks.]

These cards can be used at literally any merchant that accepts VISA or Mastercard, and all is required is a signature. No need to put in a PIN.

When I asked my bank for an ATM card, I got the debit card. I might not have been specific enough.

I guess to summarize, the best way to bring money is some cash, an ATM/possibly debit card, and maybe traveller's checks? My fear is that the ATM card won't work or gets chewed up, then we are stuck with no money there. Can't bring it all in cash. Credit cards only good for the big expenses. Traveller's checks only can be cashed at the big banks, not at the hotels, right?

Neil, I think you are absolutely right about it being a a quirk in the US banking system. There are often miscommunications about this because it is country-specific. RKKWan describes well an ATM card (though I didn't know it could be used at a supermarket terminal) A debit card usually has a Mastercard ot Visa logo, and can be used (with a PIN) to get cash from an ATM. It can also be used at a store to buy something (with or without a PIN) and the money is immediately deducted from your bank account. A credit card bills you monthly for what you have charged. The problem with debit cards comes when they are used fraudulently - someone can clean out your bank account in short order using a debit card, and all you can do is to appeal to your bank to restore the money. It can take months. With a credit card, fraudent use is quickly deducted from your bill while they investigate it. WIth a debit card, you can be left with no way to make a legitimate purchase because your bank account is empty.

Lost in China, someone wrote up a trip report a couple of weeks ago, and he said hotels in Beijing and shanghai were willing to cash traveler`s checks for a better rate than cash for little or no fee. I wasn`t planning on taking any, as I haven`t used them for years, but I am also worried about my ATM card not working too. So I will probably try that route, and use my ATM card too.

Lost in China, that report is titled China trip report Sept 05.

I have lived in China for over 6 years (on multiple occasions). My last stint there (with my family) was for close to 2 years. We did just fine with our US ATM card (issued by the Credit Union we have a checking account with). Eventually we had a local ATM card as well (for a local bank account) but we also continued to use our US ATM card. In general near by big international hotels there are ATM machines that accept foreign (non-Chinese bank issued) ATM cards. This is what you need to pay attention to -- is the ATM machine for foreign ATM cards. If it is they accept all sort of different cards. Please check my post on that on our blog at http://site.chinafinds.com/blog/2006...avel-to-china/
Or feel free to send me a note with any questions.

My experience in Shanghai is that the 4 or 5-star hotels there cashed my travelers checks (American Express or Visa) at the official rate fixed by Bank of China. However, my last trip to Shanghai in May 2006, the 4-star hotel I stayed would only cash American Express traveler checks. I had Visa traveler checks. The local commercial bank next door also would not cash my Visa travelers checks. I had to cash it at a branch of Bank of China.

When I talked to a guy from my bank, he said that debit cards do NOT incur any fees while credit cards do. He did say the exact same thing that rkkwan said that since it comes out of our checking/saving acct, that could be depleted quickly if stolen. He said to keep checking constantly to see if we have it and if it's lost, report it immediately. Now I'm wondering if maybe I shouldn't rely on the ATM/debit cards and go back to traveller's checks, specifically American Express traveller's checks.

Is it true that debit cards incur no fees whereas credit cards do? Are credit cards readily accepted by most of the stores/restaurants?

Pat,
Thanks for that info on the china trip report. I searched for that and was unable to find it. Could you inform me as to how to find it please?

Lost in china, I found the trip report. It`s by guimbymoy, and is titled China Trip diary-Sept 2005. If you put guimbymoy in the search box, you should find it. I leave April 3, and I`m getting very excited.

LostinChina - Keep using your bank card. Use your regular precaution, and don't worry about it. I was just trying to point out the subtle difference between the cards. The risk is extremely low.

I take my own check cards everywhere in the world and use them in ATMs.

Pat,
I searched for guimbymoy and only got China highlights tour company. Maybe since it's an older thread, it doesn't come up. The trip reports I find very informative.

rkkwan,
Thanks for the note. I just got thru calling the bank and you are right, you can order just an ATM card. I'm not sure what I'll do yet. It's reassuring that you use it all the time with no problems.

Thanks for the clarification, rkkwan and Kathie. We also have straight ATM cards (no credit function), but you always have to enter your PIN at an ATM, supermarket terminal or similar.

We belatedly learnt a valuable lesson when my wife's bag (containing her cards) was stolen on a SF BART station last year. And that is, to each carry a different set of cards. We were each carrying duplicate cards issued on our two joint accounts - one with our bank, one with our credit union. Had we been forced to cancel her cards, mine would have been cancelled too. We were incredibly lucky insofar as the bag was recovered, with the cards intact, in a trash can outside the station, so it never came to that.

In future I'll carry the credit union's cards and my wife will carry the bank's cards, or vice versa. This might seem blindingly obvious to a lot of people, but it had never occurred to us.

And a big "thank you" to the helpful BART staff - and to the sadly unknown bum who was fossicking through the trash container, found the bag and handed it in. I wish we could have given him a reward.

LostinChina, I hope you'll forgive the thread hijack.

Neil,
No problem. We can learn from everyone's input!!

Most banks charge an exchange premium on debit as well as credit cards. make sure you clarify this with your bank before you go. Unfortunately, most banks currently charge 3% on any foreign exchange, whether credit, debit or ATM. You really have to look for a card that doesn't add the extra charges. I have an internet savings account with HSBC that does not charge for ATM withdrawals, and does not add a premium on foreign exchange.

I prefer an ATM - not debit - card but couldn't use it in many places out of US. I got an ATM debit and put in far less cash than my normal card. That's the one I take with now

I have never had a problem in China nor anywhere else with my no fee ATM and low fee CCs from USAA.
M (SMdA, Gto. MX)

My bank said no charge to use debit card, however will charge to use credit card. I also got an ATM card only in case I plan to just use that.

Thanks!

After wetting up an HSBC Direct internet savings account two weeks ago based on a post in this forum, today I received a "Dear Valued Customer" letter notifying that all foreign exchange including ATM withdrawals will incur a 3% "currency conversion fee". Given that it's all electronic, there should be virtually no cost to the bank. Furthermore, it would seem that most customers using foreign ATMs also would be the ones with substantial deposits that a bank would wish to keep.
Any opinions on why these banks want to shoot themselves in the foot?
Any current leads on banks with low ATM charges?

After setting up an HSBC Direct internet savings account with ATM card two weeks ago based on posts in this forum, today I received a "Dear Valued Customer" letter notifying that all foreign exchange including ATM withdrawals will incur a 3% "currency conversion fee". Given that it's all electronic, there should be virtually no cost to the bank. Furthermore, it would seem that most customers using foreign ATMs also would be the ones with substantial deposits that a bank would wish to keep.
Any opinions on why these banks want to shoot themselves in the foot?
Any current leads on banks with low ATM charges?

Economy and business models change over time.

For example, for years, HSBC's US operation was aggressive in the subprime lending market. Well, they need deposits to fund those lendings. So, low cost accounts, high interest rates, etc.

Now, things have changed. They wrote off lots of those loans, and even shut down a subsidiary. I guess they now have no need for you guys' large deposit. So, they'll rather make money from the 3% fees.