American Controversy
 

This is what I wrote to my frieneds back home. I'm sure the following will be miss interpreted but I wanted to see what other travelors thought.

Well I’m on the last leg of my travels: I am tried as hell so I decided to go south again to Na Trang (spelling optional). It’s a classical example of beach resort, filled with tours of every sort involving water. The water is a warm 25°C and Safire blue with just a touch of seaweed green. The water’s so warm in fact, I you could of taken out a bar of soap and make of wash of it. Hell the South China Sea beats 80% of the bathrooms in Vietnam. But like any major beach resort in Asia there’s the infamous sex trade. For every time you pass someone trying to sell you some smokes or a ride on a scooter (aka motorized coffins; 36 deaths occur each day from motor accidents), there a skinny guy who raises his eyebrow and puts on a grin like he’s just found his dad’s Playboy magazines, and asks if you like Vietnamese girls. Of course you have to say yes. Saying no is like saying, no I don’t like Vietnam. So it’s entrapment; so he’ll then say something like, “you want boom-boom massage,” “penis massage,” or my personal favorite “Vietnamese’s girls love you long time.” What always gives me a chuckle is that the accent is so typical of what you see in any Hollywood movie.


Really there’s so many stories and moments I would love to share with you guys; but I wanted to take the time to make a “Call to Arms” to all fellow Americans. You see when you are backpacking, unless you’re a social retard, you are never alone. You are always going off on some hike, train ride, tours etc for days and weeks together with people from all over the world. It’s just natural. As an American, dinner discussions with an international mix always ends up with the same conversions it seems. Let me give you a shinning example. I was having dinner with one German and British guy, a Brazilian and Japanese gal, and two Australian dudes in the beauty surroundings of Sapa Mountains. In this particular case, I found the German was the most intense with their views, followed by the Brit, the Brazilian are moderate, the Japanese are more reserved, and the Aussies are just chill and out to have a good time. If you want to get hammered, drink with the Aussies.

Without making this a novel, I on multiple occasions, had to flight an international team of American haters. The views harbor on: one, America creates its wealth from exploiting third world countries for it’s resources under the disguise of developing them, Americans only think about things in terms of monetary value, we are loud (okay, I may have reinforced that one) and self-centered, ignorant, and finally with one word I can summarize the overall view: IRAQ. For me it’s hard to argue the ignorance because it wasn’t a surprise to be talking with someone that spoke three or four different languages fluently. Hell I barely speak English, and my Vietnamese isn’t anything to write home about. Imagine sitting in a table with three different languages are being used, and often three or four languages are being used to get the right translation of a word. Some times I would have to wait five minutes to get English back into the conversion.

This is a lot more serious of an email than I intended, so I don’t really want to really get into a another political discussion. But in the end of the night, I would often get “but the few Americans I have met, you guys seem more open minded than I thought.” This is a really strong point. As an American, I really don’t see fellow American travelers. This creates a problem because often the views on US is that it Bullies other countries and news coverage always paints a pictures of War: Made in America! My call to arms is for my fellow countryman to get out in the world and better represent the good’o USA. Your trip to Paris isn’t a cultural voyage as your travel agent said. Get out of your Hotel, talk to someone. CNN is not the word of God. The irony is that I myself tends to lean on the right, but living outside my comforts have taught quite a bit. In the end I think, not just American but developed countries, tend to make policies on places that they have never step foot on. And even if they do, it’s usually in some five star hotel. I would just say step into the towns and villages, eat the food, talk to the people, even get scammed by the locals, but more importantly experience something beyond you.

Couldn't have put this better myself, but it's not only the Americans who should travel more. We all need to encounter other cultures to truely appreciate the way that our nations are viewed, and realise how lucky we are. I'm taking my family to Vietnam in 6 weeks because it's different. Not only will it be a holiday for them, with a couple of days on the beach, but also a cultural experience. We intend visiting some of the historical sites, visiting local markets, visiting schools, eating in "genuine" Vietnamese restaurants, and learning some of the language. We are looking into the possibility of supporting local education wih long term financial support, maybe sponsoring a child. We're not particularly "rich" but if we can afford £1,000's for a holiday we can afford £10's regularly.

In my experience those people who've travelled and involved themselves in the local community are more rounded individuals who appreciate how lucky they are

in general backpackers tend too be liberal and those conservatives travaling in backpacker spots or even more rural areas are bible thumpers. lol.

not too be a jerk but Im not sure what your point was. please post.. everyone knows that I pull no punches. and on rare occasion defend us americans..

in general I usually stun forigners when I talk too them since I agree with some of the things they say and add American insight too it ..

Dear Logos, that was one hell of a post.
I've never been to Vietnam - Cambodia, Thailand, China, India, many African countries, etc. etc. But your writing makes Vietnam real and your experiences there totally recognisable.

The (few) Americans I have met on my journeys, independent travellers, have been great company. But there aren't very many of you.

I haven't been on the road since the war on Iraq started, but I can imagine you get a lot of flack.

Many people do feel very strongly that US power is being abused. And people also note that few Americans travel.

And they make a connection - as I think you have.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

We are Americans and we have had similar experiences, but with a twist. We have traveled extensively with our children since they were very young (usually on the "backpacker circuit"), and we have encountered few Americans who travel abroad (particularly in Asia and South America) with children. On numerous occasions, other travelers (generally European travelers) have commented that our children aren't like "other American children". The travelers then have explained that they assume from American T.V. that all American children are spoiled brats who play video games all day, and have no interest in other countries or cultures. While that is true of many children, many of my children's friends have varied interests and would jump at the opportunity to travel abroad.

Thanks for the interesting thread, I've travelled throughout Asia and visited America a number of times to stay with friends. It's true that there is an awful lot of bashing America when speaking to others. However, The friends I do have in America live in New York and (they will admit this themselves)talk about paranoid, believing that everyone hates them and after watching the news channels in America NO WONDER plus, it doesn't help matters when a New York radio station makes fun of one of, if not the biggest natural disasters the world has ever known!!!

It's true that travelling develops ones ideas how other culture are, but I've come across travelers that turn their noses up and believe theirs is the right way to do things, not just Americans. It's not just about America but people have to look at their own countries and its policies- but it's easy to bash America at the moment whilst being run by Rumsfield and Bush. One last point is that peolpe should not forget what good things America has done for the world.

Thanks for the wonderful comments on my post. I was acutally afraid of a backlash when posting this tread, but because of the openness of people I think I might post some of my other experiences. I been traveling for a while and sending travel logs to friends of a while now.

It put it in a more simple term, this was a letter to friends to travel more and give a better representation of the US. In addition by travel, we has a whole can get a better perspective on our surroundings :) Thus allows us to make more conscious decisions in terms of world politics!

hell I'll add more.

one thing that drives me up the wall is that everyone all over the world says they don't hate Americans, they just don't like US government policy... I've heard Presidents, kings, goat shepards say this all over US media for ever. But we live in a Jerry Springer media world where we don't care too listen too reason but believe the loadest most anoying peranoid person that speeks.

Dear Orgy7,

Your point being?

Look, I didn't mean to create some kind of flame war. I was just trying to share my experience and thoughts from what I believe to be an interesting situation . What the overall point is really simple: We shouldn't take easily obtain information to base our opinions about people and concepts. The idea is to really go out into the world and makes judgments and decisions base on real world experiences. To really feel and touch things to know them.

For some, this post my seem trivia but it was just my experience; and I am sorry it has create a sense of boredom for some. This will be my last post on this subject to save farther Pickering :)

I love this discussion, thanks Logos.

I have had this same experience, and agree that more intelligent, informed, Americans traveling would help out a lot. I tend to agree that we as a group are very insular and frequently are not well informed about things both inside of and outside of the US. Two comments. 1. Disliking all Americans becuase of the policies of the US government is just as bad as some Americans boycotting french fries and french toast because of the policies of the French government. We as rational people should be able to seperate people from their governments. 2. I wish more Americans spoke a second language, but to be honest, there is not another language that is an obvious second choice. The one that comes closest is Spanish, and my experience traveling is that Spanish is not that widely spoken as a second language, particulary in Europe.

To Puck021 :

It used to be fairly easy to separate Americans from US foreign policy but unfortunately George W. Bush was just re-elected by a majority of American voters and that, to the rest of the world, says rather plainly that most American people support American foreign policy. We in the rest of the world find much of what your government does quite offensive. Sorry but it's true.

Galiano-
A lot of us (49%)right here in the U.S. also have problems with our government these days.

LFC

PUCK helped properly construct some of my last point was.

and i'll futher add that I mentioned the media becouse thats obviously what influences most people in most countries and on many occasion helps couse the rift which logos is talking about..
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logos setle down.. this is not a flame (actually I'm not too sure what the heck a flame is).. You mentioned America basing and other political isues and I've enfized (SP) on them..

I agree with your over all theme about people travaling, (which is just about a "universsl truth"). I'm one who thinks that every American shousl be forced too study abroud for a year or so..

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LOL since I've been living in thailand it's been kind of hard too get into a politcal/social discusion.. Im a Colombian/American libraterian amongst like minded farang and locals.
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logos.. come on what happened too that "KICK ASS" american spirit. did you leaving it in vietnam.. just joking... please post back we don't bite.

This thread has been censored - what happened to Spygirl?

Galiano,

good point!!!!

Alice13 watchout BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING

Orgy7,

I hear what your saying but please do not think that people are stupid. Most can make their own minds up about the current affairs shown on TV or in the papers, it's called being able to think.

Here is my perspective as a young Canadian who was born behind the Iron Curtain.

I agree that Americans generally need to get out of the country more often, or at the very least, learn more about the global geography (this also applies to my fellow Canucks, who are really Yankees in disguise; the only differences being that we have a Queen, semi-free healthcare, and a huge inferiority complex).

Anecdotally, a few of my family members recently came back from a Caribbean cruise where they had an interesting discussion with a young lady from the US who was absolutely stunned to learn that Vancouver (British Columbia) was in fact in Canada; she was convinced that it was actually part of the State of Washington (which borders British Columbia). Well, surprise, surprise!

That been said. The good ol' USA is an empire and as such, it would no doubt ALWAYS stir controversy around the world, simply by the virtue of being the world's cop. Have Romans been liked by their neighbors? Have the British earned love and admiration while colonizing the planet in the 19th century? I think not. One day, the US will probably become the 'Old World' and China will rule by absolute (or near absolute) decree.

The US is a superpower and each small splash in the water would send ripples throughout the world. No matter what the US does in the international arena, it is bound to piss someone off.
Of course, bombing the bejesus out of a sovereign country (killing many local civilians in the process and unleashing near-anarchy in what is an already miserable place), sending young US lads to their death, and costing billions of dollars to the US taxpayers amounts to more than just 'pissing off' the rest of the world or an 'oops'. Neither am I a Bush fan. But after the tsunami calamity, it was the US government and its 'geographically-impaired, hickish' citizens who gave more than anybody else on the planet.

I think it's important to look at this from different angles.

Razzle Dazzle

Galiano - I actually understand that viewpoint, but the reality is that Bush won with a majority of the votes, but since a large portion of the US doesn't vote doesn't mean that he is supported by most Americans. Most people do not understand the deep isolationist streak that runs through the American psyche. The typical American would rather not be involved in Iraq, or Bosnia, or for that matter anywhere. It has been a fact since WW2 that the American presidents have been much more outwardly focused than the people. I think that this is good, but some would argue otherwise. Probably due to this, most American voters vote on domestic issues rather than on foreign policy. The President largely gets elected based on how the economy is doing (which he has little control over) and not based on foreign policy (whihc he has a lot of control over).

My overall point being (back to the original topic) it is fair to critisize Americans for being insular and not outwardly focused, but not totally fair to automatically critisize them for their government's policies. Also, verbally assulting the small number of Americans who do travel (this is uncommon but does happen) is actually really counterproductive, since we all should encourage more Americans to get out and interact with the rest of the world.

I have been reading this with interest and was not going to comment but I would like to add that in my own humble opinion I have found that Americans who have traveled and ventures out to be thoroughly pleasant, friendly and interesting. I think overall they are more polite than most, except of course if you happen to be in Patong or Pattaya when the navy comes in ( that's a totally different story and often not a pleasant one either ), otherwise I find Americans tend to be interested in other cultures and peoples and have a real interest in learning, seeing, understanding, many other visitors actually really do bring their own society, attitudes etc with them and will not shift from their homegrown perspectives, including being downright rude to service personel in hotels, restaurants etc. Quite a few years ago I has the misfortune of runninga restaurant and I can tell you that not once did we ever experience anything but politeness from American customers ( who also tipped the best !! ) whereas many 'others' were just downright nuisances ( difficult, rude to staff, loussy tippers, arrogant...ahhhhhh ). I am happy to count probably more American as 'close' friends in Thailand than any other nationality, we have good concersations and I always have the impression that they sincerely do have an interest in countries visited and do not look upon it as a just a place to get a tan and get drunk.
I do have one observation though and that is that visitors from Europe, ANZ, SA and Asia tend to come with kids, yet I see/encounter very few American 'families', I don't mean anything by this except as an observation and wonder whether it's because 'families' in the U.S tend not do do such long hauls as a family vacation, or school vacations are shorter(?), just a minor observation.

razz; perhaps that young lany was confused about vancouver in washington state, like they have aloha in oregon.

First, I have met many wonderful Americans in countries all over the world.

To Razzle Dazzle :

As a fellow Canadian I must say I am absolutely amazed at your contrasting Canada and the US by suggesting " my fellow Canucks, who are really Yankees in disguise; the only differences being that we have a Queen, semi-free healthcare, and a huge inferiority complex " This probably is not the forum to debate such issues but as a passionate Canadian I must say I take great offence at your very narrow view of our country. It's ironic that you fault Americans for their limited knowledge of the world and yet you display a shocking ignorance of your own country . I'll say no more.

LFC just a quick reminder that NEW YORK city is not America.. America is actually an extreamly religious fundimentalist country. And as someone posted isolationolist as well. Im from the north east (BLUE STATES) and when I venture too the southern states I bring my passport, pocket translator, and malaria pills. I do stick with my comment that many Americans are fairly ignorant on world isues and easaly swaid or just put off by the insane carnival news media..

lol for some reason old southern folk really like too take tours too europe and you don't know how many times I've heard one say "wow looky there they have a Mcdonalds"

whats my point.. hmm not sure

razzle dazzle... I agree with ya all da way...

why in the world would that be deleted?

I too have been reading this post with much interest... This is after all Travel Talk and not Political Talk.
I think Logos didn't mean to start this huge discussion regarding Americans travel habits or lack thereof.
Just adding my two bits... Have noticed (since my kids were in college) that more and more college juniors and seniors are going abroad from 8 weeks to a year. My daughter spent a year in Bordeaux and my son will be spending 8 weeks in China this summer. Both of them were/are part of the Univ of Calif system (Davis and UCLA). My husband and I recommend it heartily... it opens one's eyes and ears to other cultures and ways of living. The year in France made my daughter realize what she loved about the U.S. and what she didn't like.
But it also showed her how there are small minded people all over the world in fact, there are RED states equivalents in every country!

We aren't that much different from each other regardless of where we're from and the only way we can promote any kind of understanding between cultures is to go out into the world, travel, talk to people and while there, try and adapt and stop telling yourself how different and nicer things are back home!

Sorry for the diatribe - just couldn't help myself.... by the way, can we all use some spell/grammar check?!!

Oh well, when I travel outside the U.S. nowadays I simply carry along a Kerry-Edwards campaign button which I purposely bought and saved for exactly these occasions.

DMary - RED states = republican?

Razzle - agree with all you say, except for your last comment re the USA giving more than anyone else to aid the Tsunami victims. For the sake of accuracy could you clarify whether you mean in total or per capita? If in total then that is hardly surprising given the population of the States - and yes I know India and China have a greater population.

I do not think it is per capita - please correct me if I am wrong. And while we are on the subject, it was three days or more before there was any reaction from the American Govt at all.

I am an American who has traveled all over the world. I have encountered closed minded travelers that are cautious towards Americans. Usually after a few beers, they reveal the fact that they have never meet any Americans. I am thankful that for some of them I have left a good impression. Meaning, they would make comments like, I didn't really like Americans that much etc, but I know that some are alright...

When I was in Thailand, I had an english guy take a swing at me cuz "he hated war, hated jews and hated yanks". This guys character should speak for himself. He was a door knob, I did him a favor by not kicking his ass that day. His day will come.

The point is people are afraid of what they don't know. Every culture has people in it that have undesireable characteristics. If you are a person that can easily identify negative qualities in a person, chances are you have those same qualities. So be cool, be chill and have a good time traveling.

Galiano: if you look at the very first sentence in my post, you will find the word "my perspective" which right away is a big disclaimer. I came to Canada when I was a small boy and spent all of my life living here, which gives me a right to a certain outlook. This is by no means the absolute truth or is intended to be read as the gospel. It was just an opinion.

Alice13: I went by the total figures, not the per capita amounts. While I agree that the US has a large population, it was somewhat disappointing to read about countries such as Sweden (a large percentage of the tsunami victims were Swedes) who gave comparatively little amounts of money, especially in light of their prosperity. I realize that Egypt is a poor country (I visited Egypt as a teen and saw the poverty first-hand), $100,000? Why, Sandra Bullock gave ten times that. The biggest surprise, however, came from China. While it may have taken the US government several days to respond, China's silence has been baffling. The government of a country with a population of 1.5 billion people, 9% GDP growth per annum, and a powerful modern army (which has the much-needed equipment) offered almost nothing beside a little financial help, all the while this disaster unfolded literally in its backyard! Tiny Singapore seems to have done more for the victims.

Anyway, this topic is distasteful; it reminds me of the "my daddy gave more than your daddy" talk that you hear in the playground. The point of my post was to show that each and every individual should be judged just like a company is judged by investors; on a case-by-case basis. To lambast all Americans because of Bush and Iraq is not the best way to go if we are to build an even quasi-civilized society. Each country has its rotten apples.

Dear. Orgy7

OK OK New York isn't America but you must agree that the World is America!!!!!

Jaysunm,

Don't take the English too seriously, it's part of our culture when abroad get drunk be offensive and fight with ANYONE!!!

Dear All forgot to say that I will be going to Thailand in the next couple of weeks and I promise not to cause offense to anyone, especially Americans by talking about politics. Cheers.

LFC, I will be in Thailand in April, if you see me, I would love to talk about politics, just don't attack me :)