Advice Needed for SE Asia Trip for First-Timers!
 

Hi all - first of all thank you for all the great info on this forum and trip reports. A shout out to the blog from "From Home to Roam" and all the other great advice!

We are planning a trip to SE Asia for June 2013. Tickets are bought already. We land on June 22 late evening into Ho Chi Min City. We depart late evening July 9 out of Bangkok (will explain later). This gives us 16 nights, 17 days. We are coming from New York.

Background: traveling with 3 kids ages 5, 9, 11. Before you tell me they are too young, please know that they are avid travelers having gone on safari in South Africa at ages 2 & 4 years and have now been all over the continent of Africa 9 times. Also many trips all over Europe and the Caribbean. It was trekking elephants on the Namibia/Angola border last July when they told me the next big trip had to be to Asia! Also, we don't mind moving frequently -- in fact we try to pack in as much as we can!

We were going to take a group tour, hence, the arrival and departure cities. But after research, have decided against it. So we have the following three questions:

Tour Operators: looking for a tour operator to book all accomodations, transportation, tours, internal flights, and activities. I have read good things about Indochina Odyssey Tours, Exotissimo, Wide Eyed Tours, Trails of Indochina, and Easia. Can someone give me any feedback on these companies or recommend others?

Itinerary: we are thinking of the following in the order listed but are very much open to advice and have not made any firm decisions:

Ho Chi Min City - 3 nights (want to see the usual things. Should we include Meking Delta full-day trip?)

Hoi An - 3 nights (want to stay on the beach, do a 1/2 day biking tour and cooking class. And then just just casually enjoy the city)

Hanoi - 2 nights (after reading the only reason I want to come here is for a 1 night Ha Long Bay trip)

Luang Prabang - 2 nights (is this enough?)

Siem Reap - 3 nights (wow-some people say 2 nights enough and other say 4 minimum. Want to spend two days seeing the ruins and one day volunteering and touring with Ponheary Foundation -- thoughts?)

Ko Samui - 3 nights (last 3 days on the beach relaxing before departing out of Bangkok)

Hotels: woud love some hotel recommendations for the cities mentioned. We like high-end luxury large hotels or small boutique quaint hotels.

I know I am asking or a lot of advice but I have never planned a trip to a new place without help from my forum friends!

Thanks in advance.

It will be quite hot in HCMC, more pleasant in Hanoi. Most people prefer Hanoi to HCMC, much more old architecture and such. HCMC is a huge mostly modern city. So decide if you really want 3 nights in HCMC and only 2 nights - really no time at all in Hanoi as you will be on Halong Bay overnight.

Remember than two nights somewhere is only one full day. Two nights is not enough for Luang Prabang... since you already have you plane tickets, I'd suggest you cut it and add the time to another destination. Go when you can spend more time there.

How much time to spend in Siem Reap depends on your level of interest in the temples of Angkor. It takes three full days (four nights) just to see the major temples. Do your research first - Dawn Rooney's book, Angkor: A Guide to Cambodia's Wondrous Temples will give you enough info to decide how much time you want there. You are planning three nights there, and you plan one full day at the PLF. You barely have time for a cursory look at a few of the most important temples. But if you have little interest in temples, that may be enough for you. I spent a week there and would have enjoyed more time. Unless you are flying in on the 6 am flight one day and flying out on the 6 pm flight another day, three nights will not give you three days in Siem Reap.

You don't need a tour operator to book this - very easy to do on your own. But before you book anything, consider the ratio of travel time to time enjoying a place. The more stops you make, the less time you have to enjoy each place. For me, this would be way too many stops. SE Asia is a place to slow down and savor. You have 16 nights. If it was my trip, I'd choose four destinations. I would consider 5 to be the absolute max. You have 6.

I also notice you don't have any time in Bangkok, which is my favorite city in the world. You will spend a few days at an international beach resort in Thailand, but will have no opportunity to taste the Thai culture. There are always choice to be made in an itinerary, and there is no way you will fit in everything you want to see/do. But I'd suggest you pause and consider what is most important to you about this trip, then choose 4 destinations, or five if you don't mind spending a lot of your time in transit.

Thanks Kathie.

I need time to think about your advice before I ask you more questions.

But I could see myself taking out Laos or Thailand and adding the 2 or 3 days somewhere else. Of course, I have to see if I can change flight without hassle/major costs. Plus I do love a beach at the end a vacation, as do the kids.

If I take out Laos and have two extra days, I can see adding one to Siem Reap and the other to Hanoi. How does this sound?

Thanks again. And more questions later!

I think that is a reasonable option. But certainly I understand your need to think about it. Once you have decided on your destinations, We can offer hotel suggestions. Lots of lovely places to stay in the places you are visiting.

Lola, the nice thing about HoiAn is that it is both a charming town (I hesitate to call it a "city") and a great beach town. You can stay close to town on the river, or, like we did, at a beach resort 10 minutes drive from the town center.

Re Siem Reap, we saw 5 or 6 temples in 2 full days of sightseeing. That was enough for us in one trip. But we are, for better or worse, "temples lite", not "temples PhD" -- in other words, we like the highlights, not anything too in-depth (I'd just forget it all anyway). We saw Angkor Wat, Angkor Thom, Ta Prohm, Beng Melea, Bantay Srei, Kbaal Spean, and sunset at Phnom Bakheng (which I'd skip actually - absurdly, annoyingly crowded, and the sunset wasn't that great either). On the third day, we decided to hang at the gorgeous pool and it was a lovely day! We loved our

Finishing that thought - we loved our visit to Siem Reap even if it was only 3-1/2 days.

Hanoi is a great place for kids to enjoy "ordinary" Vietnamese life. They can barter for sandals (or whatever) with the many street vendors, walk around the little lake in the tourism centre hoping to see the ancient resident turtle, on weekends watch the locals playing games in the little parks nearby and getting their wedding photos snapped, or take one of the moderately priced cooking classes. Wading through the maze of the local market is the cheapest fun to be had, and just crossing the street through the swarms of buzzing motorbikes will be an adventure rivalling Halong Bay. Meanwhile the adults can sample the wares of several mega-brewpubs. Don't sell Hanoi short as a destination.

there are some new western style hotels on china beach--maybe meridien and hyatt but i am not sure.. this is close to hoi an..

normally i would want more temple time in angkor, but with little kids i question that.. on the other hand i think they will love helping at the schools... bring school supplies with you.

LP is a lovely town, very laid back and you might all enjoy that but going for just a couple of days is too short.

the anantara riverside in bkk would be perfect for you or the peninsula.... stay at either and skip samui.. both have fab pools.

Siem Reap - Loved it. For our trip three nights worked perfectly (but I would go back!). We were there with teens and spent a half day volunteering with the PLF, saw at least six temples, Tonle Sap, and also had pool, massage, market and relaxation time (siestas in between morning and afternoon touring)...plus a return visit to Angkor Wat for sunrise. With kids you probably won't be spending a lot of time at each temple.

Our hotel, the Angkor Victoria, was a cool high end boutique hotel, but with an authentic vibe - not glitzy. A colonial replica run by a Vietnamese chain. Great location on a park next to the Raffles, nice walk or short tuk tuk to the market, good food, games and fantastic pool for the kids. We were there several years ago, but we recommended it to friends who just returned and loved it. They also stayed at several Victoria hotels in Vietnam - they got a package rate and I think Victoria might have booked internal travel for them.

The PLF will tell you not to bring along school supplies - the school supplies will be cheaper in the market in Siem Reap, and you will help the economy by buying there.

China Beach, by DaNang won't have the market town atmosphere of Hoi An. It will be more like staying at an international beach resort anywhere in the world.

Friends of ours stayed at the Victoria Siem Reap and loved it. We stayed at La Residence du Angkor there (and loved it) and at the Victory in HoiAn (and loved THAT).

When we went, we brought the thumb drives that were specifically requested - I can't recall whether we were told they aren't as readily available in Siem Reap or just aren't as inexpensive as we could get them here.

Hi all.

Thanks for all your feedback. Based on it, I have made some changes and based on my reading I may want to add another stop! I know I'm supposed to be editing but it sounds so lovely for the kids. But do let me know if it makes sense timing wise or route wise as I'm having a hard figuring it out on the map.

Arrive Ho Chi Min City (10:00 PM)

2 Nights - Ho Chi Min City (including arrival night)

3 Nights - Hoi An

2 Nights - Hanoi

1 Night - Ha Long Bay

3 Nights - Siem Reap

3 Nights - Ko Samui

With this itinerary, I took out Laos entirely, a day in HCMC, added a day to Hanoi and did not include Ha Long Bay in the 2 days. I have one more day to play with. After reading, would love to do it in Mai Chau when we are near Hanoi, especially since we are not doing Sapa. But would this work or too much? If I shoud consider it how and when? We can hire a private car and driver to get us places so that is not a consideration. I also want to take folks advice and fly out of Hanoi right after the Halong Bay excursion instead of leaving the next morning.

If Mai Chau is not an option, then I think I would add the extra day to Siem Reap (since I want to do temples, school visit, and Tonle Sap) or to the end of the trip on the beach in Thailand. Sadly, I can't do Bangkok, but we will be back when we can do that city justice and add back Laos, which I really want to experience. Thoughts?

Also, back to tour operators to book hotels, transportation, guides and internal flight...I mentioned Indochina Odyssey, Exotissimo, Wide Eyed Tours, Easia. There are others mentioned too, but I really have no idea of who to go with and would love some feedback on he ones mentioned or others before I contact them. It's very hard to get info here or on TA other than to do a search. I have and have gotten names but no recommendations!

Thanks for the hotel choices. Looking them up today!

And thanks in advance on new itinerary and tour operator feedback.

Enjoy the day!

Hi again.

I can't count, I have 2 more days to play with!

So should I add 1 night in Mai Chau and 1 to Thailand?

Or an extra night in Siem Reap and 1 extra Thailand?

Thank you.

I do think you'll need another day in Siem Reap, given that you want to visit temples, do PLF volunteering and visit Tonle Sap (Personally, I'd cut Tonle Sap and still add in a day). If you decide to go to the Mai Chau valley, you'll need to add a day for that. But you could easily add a day to Hanoi even if you don't go to Mai Chau - lots to see and do in Hanoi.

I wouldn't add a day to Thailand, since Koh Samui will be the least interesting place you visit as it is an international beach resort.

If you want to utilize an agent to book for you, choose a local VN agent (since most of your trip is in VN). Tonkin gets good reviews here from many. None of the agents you list are local, and you will pay more by using an international agent - often much more.

I completely trust Kathie's opinion, but in this case I respectfully disagree: With kids the ages of yours, I would definitely add a day (or maybe more) to the beach. You will all want to relax after touring around. Even if you're in an international resort, there will be elephants, Muay Thai,great snorkeling and an exotic vibe.

An extra day in Siem Reap is fine as well, but what the kids are going to like about the temples is the cool Indiana Jones factor (climbing around on the jungly carvings, posing with the figures, counting steps) rather than the history. They will probably be happy to tour the temples at a fast pace - We found this to be the case with the Mayan ruins when my kids were the ages of yours.

As far as Tonle Sop, my boys like boat rides in general, and it was utterly fascinating to them to see other kids living on houses in the water, playing basketball in a floating gym, attending a floating school. There wasn't a human zoo factor when we visited (not in a tourist boat, to a remote part of the lake), but that might have changed. Kathie's info might be more up to date.

Hi all. Thanks so much for the advice. It is so helpful.

I think I will add a day in Thailand. The kids and I will need it after moving around Vietnam and Cambodia. And it will be more unique than the Caribbean or Hawaii!

And Tonle Sop is my kind of place to experience with my kids. There is no better teacher of tolerance and understanding than seeing kids live a different way of life.

So this leaves me with one more day. It's down to adding it to Siem Reap or going to Mai Chau. If Mai Chai, do you all recommend going straight from Ha Long Bay or one other variation around our Hanoi days. As a reminder we ave 2

Oops. iPad is tripping! As a reminder, we have 2 days in Hanoi. What would be the best route?

Thanks for the advice on using an agent in Vietnam. There are great reviews on Vietnam Stay and I will look up Tonkin.

Enjoy the evening.

If you do Mai Chau directly after Halong Bay you will do a very long drive. It's about 3 hours from HB to Hanoi and then another 2 hours or so to Mai Chau unless there is a route that avoids Hanoi. Tonkin would be ale to give you exact times.

I agree with the comment re the kids in SR. All kids are different but I cannot imagine a five yr old and perhaps even the 9 yr old wanting to spend tons of time at ruins.

China Beach was mentioned as an alternative to Hoi An. I would not stay in China Beach. You might as well be staying in Fla. Hoi An is a charming town and a perfect place to kick back, sightsee a little and enjoy the beach.

i think the max time should be at the beach....
did you consider the hyatt at hua hin--no flt required from bkk and a fab pool, slide and beach. you take a car/driver or taxi from bkk airport--about 3 hours.
i think the kids would like this better than samui...

SR also needs more time for lake, temples and school.

personally i would also cut out halong bay..

<<<There are great reviews on Vietnam Stay>>>

We used Vietnam Stay to make our hotel reservations (and change them, and change them again!) and they were great. Very very responsive, and a little less expensive for each hotel than we could get on our own).

SF- That is great to hear about Vietnam Stay. I will contact them with the last itinerary and let you guys know what happens.

Take care.

I think you have made a huge mistake in taking the advice that suggested cutting the World heritage city of Luang Prabang. I suspect you will regret this. Exotissimo and Diethelm are excellent agents to use.

LP is a horrible place to make a cut as it is a fantastic place, BUT given time constraints and 3 young kids it makes tons of sense, imho

LP is wonderful, but I agree that adding it into the OP trip is just too much esp with 3 kids.

We used Tonkin for booking with hotels and drivers and they were fabulous -- very responsive and always helpful. They consistently got lower prices than we could on the hotels. Their drivers were prompt, courteous and often added much as they provided guiding services though not being guides.

I do regret taking out LP as the more I read the more I want to experience. However, I feel confident that I will fall in love with this continent as I did Africa and come back again and again. I really think I need to give my kids those last days on the beach just chilling out after the trek through Vietnam and to Siem Reap.

I am now in receipt of proposals from Tonkin, Ann Tours, and Aurora. Will be going over content and making notes today.

Thanks for all the advice!

Hi all.

Just had to let you guys know that taking out LP nagged at me. Also having only 2 nights in Hanoi did too. So I took out the beach in Thailand -- told the kids yesterday -- and switched the itinerary around a bit. I made myself feel better by reminding them we are spending 12 nights in St. Martin in the Caribbean over The Christmas holidays!

Anyway, the new itinerary is:

HCMC - 3 nights

Hoi An - 4 nights (added a day for more beach)

Hanoi - 2 nights

Halong Bay - 1 night

Hanoi - 1 night

Luang Prabang - 3 nights

Siem Reap - 3 nights

I just sent these changes to the agent and called the airline to change departing flight from Bangkok to HCMC.

Now I will return to focusing on the cultural activities. Just wanted to say thank you to all of you here and on TA who thought missing out on LP would be a shame. It worked!

Enjoy the weekend.

Good move.

Hi all.

I am happily completing the above trip. I did make one more slight change and took out the night in Hanoi after Halong Bay and am now going straight to LP. This now gives us 4 nights in LP and 3 full days. Also happy to have 4 nights in two locations now. The pace seems just right now.

My question is about all of the Junk choices on Halong Bay. Looking them all up could give you a headache! I am thinking of the Red Dragon as its small and folks say it takes a less crowded course. Has anyone gone on it to offer a review? Any others I should be considering for comfort, great food and unique experience?

Thanks as always. Happy Sunday.

We went on the Dragon Pearl which was booked for us by Tonkin. We liked it. I believe it is the same company as the Red Dragon with the Red Dragon being smaller and having fewer passengers. We had maybe 20 people on our junk and it was a nice a amount. Trip was well run, food good. you can read the specifics of our time on HB in our TR. Sounds like you've got a wonderful trip planned. enjoy yourself.

Lola-- I will be waiting for your trip report when you return since we'll be following in your footsteps soon. Enjoy the rest of your trip.

We went on Red Dragon in March 2011 and really enjoyed it. There were just five cabins, so a very small group. Food was good. We have a trip report on here somewhere with more detail. Photos:
http://onelittleworld.zenfolio.com/p117716538

we are headed to BKK in 2 weeks. However, I personally don't want to be in an airplane beyond the time it takes to get there.
I think at this point in the game, our orinal idea of getting to know BKK and hanging out there will be the best idea for this trip. (next time, def phuket!)

So much fun to share!

Thanks guys and I will do a trip report. I promise to do it as there is really no way I would have planned as good a trip without your input and advice. Ms_go, your photos are stunning! Thanks for sharing.

We did the 2 day/1 night Dragon Pearl III cruise with Indochina Junks (booked through Tonkin Travel). I loved it. The cabins were really nice and the food was great...and so plentiful! There were 20 people on the boat, which actually felt small. The smaller boat - the Red Dragon - was right alongside us the whole time, so really the only difference that I can see between the larger and smaller boats is the number of people on board.

Bookmarking

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