NYWOMAN -

I can understand feeling overwhelmed. There are many wonderful places to visit in China and your trip is more complicated by covering three countries. I think the best advice I can give regarding itinerary is "less is more." Lots of travel is exhausting and I kept the idea in mind that I would return to China again, and therefore did not need to see everything on this trip.

Hope that helps.

Linda

<b><i> &quot;Then it was off to the internet place to catch up. When we descended the stairway beneath the market, we found a huge room filled with computers…&quot;
</i></b>

Hi Linda,

Could you please tell me where this internet place is located?

Thank you!

Monica ((F))

Hi Monica,

I can try, but believe me, it won't be easy to find. Here's what you do.

First turn right when you leave the Kapok Hotel and walk to the corner. Then cross the street (the one that runs in front of the Kapok where the night food market starts on the next block. I think it's called Donguamen St or something similar to that.) Then cross the other street that has the median strip with greenery and flowers. Now you should be standing in front of the Jaguar Restaurant. Walk past the Jaguar along the street divided by the green median until you come to an alleyway. Turn right into the alleyway and walk about a block in until you see the big food market on the right. Walk in the front door of the market, but don't go where the food is. Instead, look for a door to the right with a stairway. Go down the stairs and you should be at the Internet place.

You can now see why it took three days to figure out where this place was! People told us it was near the Jaguar, or near the market, but no one told us it was inside the market!


Linda

PS Hello to Shanghainese... how was the safari?

Linda -- I responded, pix too.

Shanghainese,

Thanks for the photographs... very good! As I have said previously, one of these days I'll take this text and integrate it with my photographs (which I must say are much better than I expected when I took them!)

Ok, then it becomes publishable as Rebecca expects, maybe it can be used in english textbooks for chinese students and I'll offer my help for the task.

Shanghainese - That sounds like an exciting offer. I would love that!

Rebecca keeps me on my toes. She writes me often and since I have volunteered to assist her with her English, I then send her back a set of &quot;corrections&quot; along with the responses to her email. I feel as though I have returned to my long-ago role as an English teacher.

Jasmine also keeps in touch and I also give her a set of corrections so she can get some on-line instruction. Although she would love to take English lessons, and although I know the lessons are very reasonable (Steve was taking them when we were there in April), she still can't afford them.

BTW I met a young woman from Tibet the other day. She is a senior at one of the &quot;WISE Schools&quot; and I asked her if she would like to earn some money as a Chinese tutor for me this summer. She said she would love to do that, so maybe my vocabulary of five words will grow some.

Linda

Hi Linda,

Shanghainese's offer made me very curious about your next plan. Are you really want to establish a book now?

Thank you for assisting me with my English, your &quot;corrections&quot; are really helpful to my learning, I think I can do better in my thesis next year with your help.

I also enjoyed your life through your mails, different from ours~~

I don't have any illusions that this is book material...just hope it's useful for people traveling to China. As an American interpretation of Chinese life, there might be pieces usable for an English textbook, as Shanghainese suggests. It would need to be reworked for that purpose... if there is indeed a market for such a thing.

I know you got the book idea, Rebecca, from Fried Eggs with Chopsticks. I loved that book, but my lowly TR is, in my opinion, a far cry from that level of travel writing.

I am truly looking forward to reading your Thesis next year!

Linda

Many people have asked me on both this Forum and Trip Advisor for the contact information for the guides mentioned in these posts. Here they are:

Lilly (Yangshuo/Guilin) - [email protected]

Violet (Beijing)- [email protected]
(also may be used to contact Kong Lin)

Jeff Zhang (Xi'an) - [email protected]

Clarence Guo (Xi'an) - [email protected]

Rebecca (Translator in Hangzhou) - [email protected]

Hope this is helpful. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Linda

Nice post, Thanks Linda!

I just returned from Yangshuo. Was at the Magnolia hotel for 6 nights (lots of rain in June!). Lovely hotel. I used Lilly's services and can say that I was not at all disapointed.

She also charged me 100 Yuan/day for her services and the driver (yes, Mr. Tang-He is to young to be a Mr....) charged depending on the amount of driving.

Airport pickup-200 yuan, Li river + other minor excursions (Fuli, market, some other town (I can't rember) was 300 Yuan. Going all the way to Long Ji (Rice Terranec) 500.

Lilly was upfront and straight. She booked my Hotel for me and got a rate 50 Yuan less then the rate for the hotel on the web!

Alan

P.S. I don't get why we call the currency the RMB, everybody there calls it Yuan (1 Yuan = 1 RMB)

PSS. I also treated Lilly and Mr. T to lunches, when they picked the restaurant, the rate always seem to be much less that I would pay (ie Lunch at the place where the Li River cruise starts from was 32 Y for the three of us. (That's $10 US).

Alan,

Thanks for the report. I'm glad you put the amounts in for Mr. T. (he looks younger than he actually is!), but since Lilly called him Mr. Tang, that's what I called him (and I did try to pronounce his other name, but it didn't seem to work out).

We looked at the Magnolia, but decided to stay out of town... it was a tough call and I gave it many months of thought. Either choice is a good one. I've been reading about the rain and recently communicated with several people in the Yangshuo area since I was worried about them. They are accustomed to very wet weather at this time of year. I'm glad we went in April when we only had to contend with a few showers at the beginning and end of our visit.

Again, thanks for the update... glad it all worked out and you enjoyed Lilly and Mr. T.

Linda

According to my text book and teacher. Chinese people do not as a rule, unless they are close family members, or extremely close friends use first names. Even close colleagues use last names.

That would explain why Lilly (all our guides asked us to use the Western names they have adopted) called him Mr. Tang throughout our visit when referring to him and Jeff Zhang also referred to our driver as Mr. Leo.

Thanks, NYWoman!

Linda

Hi Lookimmune,

RMB is the abbreviation of &quot;Renminbi&quot;, &quot;renmin&quot; in Chinese means people, &quot;bi&quot; means money. In China, there are Yuan, Jiao, Fen in China(1 Yuan = 10 Jiao = 100 Fen), just like you have Dollar, Quarter, Dime, Nicke and Cent in America. When we buy things, we just say 1 Yuan but not 1 RMB, I think you'll just say 1 Dollar instead of 1 USD, right? We also call Yuan as Kuai, Kuai is often used as oral English.

Rebecca

Thanks for the clarification, Rebecca. So, Yuan is a unit of money, such as a dollar, and RMB would be equivalant to $US (i.e. it means Chinese money).

Linda

Topping for ducky2

Let me echo everyone's thanks for wiselindag's superb travelogue. Like her, I used Fodor's and meticulously planned a 3 1/2 week trip to China 4 years ago, bringing my then teenage girls -- and I also found the going generally pretty easy due to the friendliness of most Chinese people I met. Now I've just started planning a shorter trip for October, and am planning to go to Guilin, where we've not been - and I'm tentatively thinking we'll spend 3 nights at the Sheraton -- since it's so inexpensive and we hate having to pack and move very often.

I've written Lilly, the tourguide, and I'm wondering -- might it be realistic to leave Guilin early one morning, and drive both to Yangshuo and Long Ji in the same day? Is the longish sounding drive to Long Ji an interesting one, through nice terrain, maybe karst mountain scenery? I know that Yangshuo is probably a wonderful destination for a few days, itself, but we're a little too rushed on this trip to do it justice.

Also, what's the best way to do the boat trip up the Li to Yangshuo (which we think we'll do with some friends who will meet us the day after we've been to Long Ji). A few years back I recall people writing that they purchased the same boat tickets at the pier, rather than in advance, and they cost 80% less. What's the best way to get the tickets - and their cost - these days? How long is the trip, and is there any real difference among the various boats? If the trip is short, perhaps we'll arrange with Lilly to have her meet us in Yangshuo with our friends after the boat ride. Is Mr. Tang's car big enough for 6 people? I suspect he might be able to find a minivan for us if not.

Thanks in advance for any responses.

And, btw -- we used Clarence Guo as a guide in Xian in '04 -- no choice of restaurants then, but had a wonderful meal of endless varieties of dumplings in town -- and we also recommend him very highly. As a matter of fact, my wife just bemoaned the fact that, since we're not going back to Xian, we won't be seeing / using him again. If Lilly is as good as Clarence, which she sounds, that would be terrific.

Hi EdEdwards,

Thanks very much for your kind words. It has been a labor of love.

You ask, &quot;might it be realistic to leave Guilin early one morning, and drive both to Yangshuo and Long Ji in the same day?&quot; Wow - Yangshuo is in the opposite direction from Longji when traveling from Guilin. If you go to Long Ji, that's a long day's trip in itself. Yangshuo is another day (and preferably more than one.)

&quot;Is the longish sounding drive to Long Ji an interesting one, through nice terrain, maybe karst mountain scenery?&quot; It's fairly interesting driving to Long Ji. It takes about three hours each way to Long Ji and the karst mountains are in the other direction (surrounding Yangshuo). The first part of the drive out of Guilin isn't scenic at all. Then after about 45 minutes to an hour you get to the mountainous area where Long Ji is situated and you begin to pass some of the minority groups villages and rice terraces. It's a curvy trip up the mountain (Lilly takes medication for her stomach!). Once you get to the parking area, you have to hike the rest of the way up to where the great views are.

I can't comment on the boat trip from Guilin to Yangshuo since we elected to do the bamboo raft trip on the river instead of the big boat with lunch for big bucks. I'm sure others can provide ticketing information and the question has been asked on the Trip Advisor Boards more than once.

I'm sure it's cheaper to go down to the river and pick up tickets on the spot. The bargains are for the &quot;Chinese boats.&quot; That means the same scenery, but the narration will be in Chinese. I've read that the English-language boats are much more expensive. I think the trip from Guilin to Yangshuo on the big boats takes about 4 hours. I know they begin to arrive in Yangshuo about 1p.m. or 1:30 and there are over 50 boats.

Another option is to ask Lilly to arrange for you to be driven from Guilin to a spot on the river and then take the bamboo raft for the most scenic part. The trick with that is you have to avoid the big boats so you want to time it right.

Mr. Tang's car is a sedan that would seat no more than three people in the back (with Lilly and Mr. T. in the front), but I suspect he can get the use of a van or perhaps Lilly has another driver with a van. Ask her and she'll give you all the options.

In the sense of being well taken care of, I think you could compare Lilly favorably with Clarence. They both know their territory well and have things arranged very efficiently. Clarence is older and gives me the impression of being a professional tour guide. Although Lilly is also a professional tour guide, she's a little more casual... both excellent, just different styles. Of course, Clarence is quite a bit pricier than Lilly.

Hope this helps.
Best regards,
Linda

Thanks, Linda. I had my Guilin geography screwed up. Your description of the drive to Long Ji is helpful. My wife probably won't go for the winding roads much. Any places to stop along the way? Are the towns all very rural, farming communities?

Ed

Hi Ed,

I can relate to issues regarding winding roads. I always take a marezine or bonine when I'm going to go on that type of driving trip/airplane/boat, etc.

There really wasn't much on the way... very rural, farming land with buildings few and far between. We did pass a tea plantation somewhere (that was our bathroom stop per Lilly's recommendation.) We didn't do the tour or look at the tea, because by then we had enough tea. It's a fun place because there's a giant teapot on the hillside, so that might be worthwhile. On the other hand, if you do go to Long Ji, by the time you drive there and back and walk up and down, there isn't really any time for longer stops unless you want a very short visit up on top (which is the reason you're going there in the first place!)

There are also hot springs in the area. We didn't go there because it would have necessitated more driving in another direction. Again, Lilly would be your best resource on that idea since we discussed the Springs and she has brought people there.

Best regards,
Linda

Ed,
If you're planning on going to the rice fields in October, Lilly told us that the 2007 harvest was over on Oct.7th &amp; therefore, not a recommended time to visit. We're 6 using Lilly as our guide from Oct.17-20. She'll hire a van for us as Mr.Tang's car is too small for 6 (as you stated, Linda).

Syl,

Did Lilly send you the images of the fields throughout the year? It looks beautiful in all the seasons. There wasn't much to look at in terms of rice plants when we were there in April, but the terraces themselves were beautiful and the views from the top were terrific and very atmospheric.

Linda

Lilly didn't send us pictures but I've seen fall pictures elsewhere. It's just not as picturesque when barren.And to drive 3 hrs there &amp; 3 hrs back the scenery has to be spectacular.

Sorry, Linda, I have to agree with Syl, after several years of backbreaking work in rice fields in all seasons, barren fields are not the most scenic sight even terraced.

OK, Shanghainese and Syl, in that case, more time for Yangshuo/Guilen sights! The other advantage is you get to miss all the hairpin turns and the hike up the mountain!

Linda

Hi Linda,

you have already helped me regarding some info on rice terraces and I was hoping if you could help me again.
I'm pleased to say that my husband and I are booked to go to China this October! :o) We would like to stay at the Li River Retreat hotel as well. We sent them an email last week if they have any available accommodation, to which they replied. I then confirmed the accommodation but I haven't heard from them since. What was your communication with Li River Retreat like? Should I call them to confirm?

Also how far is the hotel from the shops/restaurants?

Many thanks.

Katerina

Katerina,
We got an email confirmation immediately upon booking with the Li River Retreat. Before we leave for China I'll email them again just to re-confirm.What dates are you planning to be there?

Hi Katerina,

I corresponded by email with Alf and if you email him with a question about confirmation, you'll get something back that will reassure you. He didn't require any credit card information from us... said people are usually responsible and reliable, and if we needed to cancel, to please do so a few days before. Everyone at Li River Retreat is very friendly and helpful, so if you email them, you should get an answer that will confirm your booking.

The Retreat truly is a retreat. It's a good way out of town and you reach it via the road the vendors use for their street market for the visitors arriving on the boats. That's why it's blocked to traffic from about 1:30 until 4:30 every afternoon. We simply used Mr. Tang's taxi service and arranged our schedule around the market. It's a good 20-30 minute walk to the shops and restaurants in town if you want to do that.

I hope you enjoy it.

Linda

Thank you Syl and Linda for your reassurance, however I have now re-sent my email 3x and no response ... not sure if they acknowledged the confirmation or not ...

We are supposed to be there from 4th - 9th October, I have also asked them to book 1 night at Longji. The first email from them was very prompt and helpful but I haven't heard from Alf since last Friday (11th July)... oh well I know he might be busy but I just don't want to lose the booking as it's the holiday season at that time...

Katerina

Kacenka,

Any reply from Li River Retreat? I'm at the beach, but will get in touch with Jasmine to check for you if you haven't yet herd from Alf.

Please let me know the latest.

Linda

Linda, you're very kind, thank you for all your help.

In the end we just called them and arranged everything via the phone with a lady called Luna (she was very helpful) - we received the confirmation immediately after our conversation. I found out that I can book the transfer via their website - so we're set to go! :-)

Only 2 months (and 1 week) to go LOL! I will print off your trip report, especially the restaurant tips. Can't wait.

Enjoy your beach time! (anywhere nice?)

Katerina

Katerina - Luna is wonderful. She is one of the very special people we met at the Li River Retreat.

I'm glad you got everything straightened out.

We were at Virginia Beach for two weeks -- beautiful beach, great weather, large and happy family - a terrific break. Thanks for asking.

Linda

Just starting my research on a trip in early Nov. That is short for me as I usually start this at least 6 months ahead but your report is so full of helpful information that I may be ok!

Thank you so much for all the contacts and travel hints that can save the rest of us (hopefully) from disasters.

I am sure I will have more questions as I reread and study your report and actually try to plan my trip. You have definitely built up my enthusiasm and excitement for our trip to China.

Barb,

Thanks for your kind words. It's my pleasure to be of whatever assistance I can and I look forward to hearing from you as you plan your trip.

Is this your first trip to China? At this point where do you plan to travel?

Best regards,
Linda

Sorry for the long time in responding. Been trying to find out just what we are doing.

Linda, I have never been to mainland China but have been to Hong Kong and Taiwan about 4 years ago. We have been waiting to see mainland China for some time now.

My husband has a business trip to Nanning the first week in Nov so I will meet him there. Then we will be traveling with another couple to Guilin, Yangshuo, Xian and Beijing.

Turns out the other couple may be making most of the arrangements as they have a Chinese niece by marriage who will help with that. I have put in my comments as I read and learn from all the great posters here! But will just have to wait and see.

As I have more questions come to me I will keep reading and asking.

Should we plan for fairly cool or even cold weather in Beijing by Nov 13 to 18?

Thanks to all who ask the questions I don't even know I have yet!

Barb,

Good luck with the trip. I don't think I could go on a trip to China planned by someone else... I enjoy the planning and research too much. I hope the connections will prove helpful/useful to you.

As for November weather, since I was there in April, I can't help much. It was unseasonably warm when we were there... hot even in Shanghai, which I didn't expect. Although it was cool and damp when we arrived in Beijing, it quickly turned warm. Historically, the average for Beijing for the month of November is in the 30's F. so I would plan on cold weather, but pack layers since you're going to be in the South also.

I'll look forward to hearing about your trip when you return.

Best regards,
Linda

It seems like ages since I first posted this report. Several travelers who asked questions and with whom I have been corresponding about China have departed for their October visits and at least one - NY Woman - is now writing her own trip report. So far her report is amazing and while virtual travel certainly isn't like the real thing, it is fun.

I'm still hoping to return to China. Discussions with a potential corporate sponsor for our proposed educational project in Shanghai (and maybe Beijing, too!) are still taking place, so I am still optimistic that I'll get to return this year or next.

Linda

Linda -- If you return to China in Nov, check out my 4 GTGs info there, will see nywoman in Lijiang, staying at the same inn.

Shanghainese

So sorry I haven't gotten back to China yet, although the possibility is still there via work and certainly I will return for pleasure. I have been inspired by your visit to Lijiang and NY Woman's wonderful trip reports. If for no other reason, I must return to buy some gorgeous cashmere jackets and silk blouses in the Art Alley!

Linda