22 day itinerary - help needed
 

My husband and I are planning a 22 day trip to Thailand. Our focus would be to explore Bangkok, Ayuthaya, the Kanchanburi, Sukothai, Chaing Mai, Chaing Rai and the Golden Triangle. We are wondering if we will also have time to travel to Angkor Wat. Does anyone have recommendations on how many days to allocate in each location and any other places to see? Also, would it be better to rent a car and drive on our own, or is it preferable to take public transportation and use guides? Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Please note - although we would like to get to the beaches, that won't be our main focus as we live in Florida. Thanks in advance - June

driving is ok in some locations but not in most...

no driving in and around bangkok....no driving at angkor wat...north of chiang mai it is ok to drive and quite easy especially in the golden triangle...

lets start from the beginning....assume you are coming from usa or canada?? you will have jet lague and adjustments to the heat and humidity...this takes 36-48 hours imo....i like to lay low in bkk for my first FULL day....pick a hotel with a nice pool or a massage place and just relax and adjust...

then you have a choice....stay for a few more days or move on to another place....i like to stay at least 2 more days and then move on and return to bkk at least 3 days before i go home...

if you plan to go to angkor wat, and it is a nice alternative, i would then not go to ayuthaya and sukothai....AW is way more fabulous than are they...

i personally find no use in kanchaburi either....the cemetery is nice and so is the railroad but it is a long drive---maybe 3 hours each way...not worth it imho...

so my perfect trip would be:

bkk 4 days
travel day
siem reap (angkor) 3 nites, 4 days--return on the late flight to bkk
stay in bkk overnite at the airport
flight to chiang mai or late flight the nite before
3-4 nites CM
travel day
3-4 nites golden triangle
travel day
remaining days back in bkk

most of us prefer the riverside hotels...depending on your budget...

i personally love the marriott and the peninsula...

bangkok air is the way to get to siem reap---only way really... they have an air pass which might work for you...

this would be my suggestion for starters for you

I agree with Bob that neither Ayuthaya nor Sukothai hold a candle to Angkor. It sounds like you may be very interested in the ancient wats. If so, plan more than the minimum three days at Angkor. Buy a copy of Dawn Rooneys book, Angkor. Make sure you get the latest edition, which I think is 2006. We spent a week at Angkor and loved every minute. It takes three full days just to see the major temples. You may well be the only visitor at some of the so-called minor temples, which can be a magical experience. Dawn Rooney's book should give you a sense of how much time you want at Angkor. You'll need a driver each day at Angkor, and many people like to have a guide as well for at least part of the time. You are welcome to take a look at our Angkor photos at www.marlandc.com

I don't have as much jetlag as Bob describes - we get in about midnight, get to the hotel and go to bed. I'm up early the next morning and can do a full day of things, but I'm ready to fall asleep about 7 the first night, and also early (maybe 8) the second night, but then I'm really over the jetlag. I do use melatonin.

I love Bangkok and can never get enough time there. So a few days at the beginning and more time at the end is a good suggestion.

I wouldn't drive myself anywhere close to Bangkok, or even near Chaing Mai (which has really terrible traffic), but you could drive yourself in the Golden Triangle area. In Chaing Mai, you'll likely ned a driver if you plan to do any sightseeing out of town or if you want to do any shopping.

Give us an idea of your hotel budget per night and we can offer some suggestions.

Thank you Bob & Kathie for your replies. I am now more confused than ever! We generally like to explore one country in depth before moving on to another, which is why we even questioned whether we should go to Angkor Wat or whether to save it for another time. It sounds like both of you are suggesting that we skip many of the sites in Thailand for Angkor Wat, which I understand is extraordinary. Also, are we doing ourselves a disservice by skipping the beaches? Are the beaches so different than those in Florida? It sounds like you both are allocating quite a bit of time in Bangkok. How many days do you think we should spend there in total, and does that include any day trips out of the city? We are not big shoppers, so we will not want to spend alot of time bargain shopping. If we decide to forego Angkor Wat for next year - which sites do you think most worthwhile? As for hotels - we would like to keep the budget to around $100 per night. It sounds like it would be preferable to be near the river and definitely nearby the skytrain. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance - June

A couple of thoughts. If you live near the beaches of Florida, I don't see any real reason to go to the Thai beaches. They are nice, but they are basically international beach resorts.

I respect your wish to explore a country thoroughly before moving on to another. And there is certainly plenty to do in Thailand to keep you busy for 21 days. But if it's ancient wats you want to see, I'd still opt for Angkor. Sukothai has more extensive ruins than Ayuthaya (which can be done as a day trip from Bangkok).

Bangkok is my favorite city in the world. So even though I've been there many times, I feel I never have enough time there. There is much to do and see. You'll want to visit some of the most famous wats, the Grand Palace, some of the wonderful house museums like Jim Thompson House. If you are interested in the arts of SE Asia, I highly recommend the Prasart Museum. And of course there is all of the wonderful Thai food. I'm not a buyer of cheap western goods in Thailand, but I do love to buy local crafts and local goods like the Jim Thompson silks. And I can't resist a visit to my long-time jeweler for sapphires and rubies or some custom gold work.

In Bangkok, you might want to consider the Centerpoint Silom, which is next to the river and the Skytrain. I've never used a guide in Bangkok, but some people love to have a guide. If you do, there are many recommended here. I like to take public transport, especially the water taxis and the skytrain in Bangkok, and find it quite easy to navigate.

My suggested itinerary is somewhat different from the above and covers more ground. If going to Siem Reap then I would not bother with Sukkoth.

Bangkok 4 days with a day trip to Ayuthaya via bus/boat tour

Bus, train or taxi to Kanchanaburi for three days. There is plenty to see here and nice change from busy Bangkok.

Return to Bangkok and fly same day to Chiang Rai for 3 days with tour to the Golden Triangle on one day

Take the noon longtail boat to Thaton and spend the night in this small nice river town

Bus or taxi to Chiang Mai and spend 4 days. Take a day trip to the Thai Elephant Conservation Center in Lampang.

Spend day travelling to Bangkok and on to Siem Reap

3 days should be sufficient to see the main temples and perhaps a day to visit the floating village at Kompong Phluk and Kompong Khleang. Visit the new National Museum. Their exhibits are improving quite rapidly and the Lim Fan Chinese restaurant there serves a very good lunch. The adjoining shopping mall is not finished but should be by year end.

Back to Bangkok for 2 nights/1 day for any final shopping that is if you are a shopper.

That takes care of 21 days

Kathie - I have not yet traveled to the orient, however, when traveling to Europe we generally don't have a major problem with jet lag. Getting in around midnight, I anticipate going to bed upon arrival and hope to wake up for a full day of travel as you do. While we are very interested in seeing the wats, we also want to explore the countryside, have an elephant experience, perhaps do a day trek or even an overnight trek (not sure if we are up to that!), perhaps a cooking class, get into the smaller villages, spend time on the klongs and of course eat our way through Thailand.

I understand from what you and others have said that Angkor Wat far outshines Aluthaya and Sukothai, but it seems a shame to miss out on them. I am especially interested in the boat ride either to or from Aluthaya, which many people have recommended. How far is Sukothai from Chaing Mai? I agree that Kanchanburi is a long drive for a day trip. If we do include it on our itinerary, I like the idea of staying overnight as Scotters suggested. Any opinions on this from anyone else? I'm not exactly clear on the Asia Discovery Pass. Am I able to use it for air transport to Chaing Mai, then to Sien Reap and back to Bangkok - and if so, does anyone know the costs including taxes? It looks like it is $260 without tax ($100 for each international leg and $60 for internal) Are there any other airlines flying cheaper round trip from Bangkok? We could always take the overnight train back from Chaing Mai.

By the way Kathie - we have never used a guide before, but I wondered if we should after reading all the wonderful things on this board about Tong and other guides. Can we get the same experiences on our own? Will we be able to wander the smaller Klongs without a tour guide and will we know what food is safe to eat on the streets? We certainly are not afraid to wander around on our own. What do you and others suggest?

Thanks again. I look forward to your responses. - June

I will try to answer some of your questions

Bangkok Air Discovery Pass - on top of the basic charge of $60 domestic and $100 international there are are taxes and fuel charges of 31 and 37 respectively. Added to that are airport taxes, 3 domestic and 21 international. The pass will save you money if flying to Siem Reap but if not then Thai Air lowest fare and discount carrier Air Asia are cheaper for in country travel. If you are going in peak season Nov-Mar) then last year Bangkok Air had a direct flight from Chiang Mai to Siem Reap on Thur/Sat. They may have the same for this coming high period.

Sukothai - It is located about 440 kms north of Bangkok so is not a day trip. You will need to stay overnight. It can be only reach directly by plane (Bangkok Air only) or by plane/train to Phitsanulok and then bus to Sukothai. The train take about 7-8 hrs and then a 1 hr bus ride. Thai air flies into Phitsanulok. One problem is how to continue on without going back to Bangkok. You could catch the train at Phitsanulok for the 7hr trip to Chiang Mai or if you are interested in the Elephant Conservation Center at Lampang just go that far (6hrs). Stay overnight, visit the camp and then arrange taxi to Chiang Mai.

Kongs - " will we be able to wander the smaller kongs". I assume you mean other than those seen by most tourist hiring a lontail boat for the Thonburi canals. The answer is yes, all the way from Banglamphu across the city to the Ramkhamhaeng University area. However not very many tourist do this as it is more difficult gettin on or off the boat, know where to catch it and where you are going. Don't expect much english to be spoken if any at all. Also be prepared to to have some of the dirty canal water splashed upon you. The most common stop for a tourist would be piers near the Jim Thompson's House and MBK shoppiing centre, Pratunam area and Asok road (Sukhumvit Soi 21).

Guides - Its up to you whether you feel more comfortable with driver/guide but it is not essential in Bangkok with their good transpotation system. In Chiang Rai and Chiang Mai it is easier to have a car/driver to get around especially outside the city. In Sien Reap a car/driver will be required (or a moto-driver) to get to the temples. A guide is optional but a good ideal at lest for a day or so.