Would you like to ride on the Airbus A380?
May 2nd, 2005, 05:11 AM
#41
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Dubai is very rich, no question about it; and they spare no pennies in bringing in huge international events like the Formula 1 autoracing and World Cup horseracing. Those alone bring in tens of thousands of visitors each.
However, I think they are a bit optimistic in projecting Emirates' growth; plus I think their business model may be out of date.
Emirates definitely think they can be the next Singapore Airlines or Cathay Pacific - both based in small city "states"; but serve a whole region and fly to almost all corners of the world (except S. America). Both are classic "hub-and-spoke" carriers.
They make sense in the past, as the only planes that can fly really long distances are also big and expensive - i.e. the 747s. But look at what's happened over the Atlantic. Once the A310 and 767 proved that smaller twin-engine planes can fly point-to-point routes and make a profit, few airlines fly 747s over the Atlantic anymore, and many people now can bypass the JFKs, LHRs, and CDG on their way to Europe.
It's taken longer for that to happen in the Pacific, but many of us heading to Asia no longer have to stop in Japan (except for those flying Northwest!) first. It's going to be the same to South Asia. Pakistan International is getting 777-200LR that can fly directly to the US. Many carriers will be doing the same for India. Thai just started JFK-BKK this weekend. You only need 300 passengers or so 3-4 times a week to establish such direct US-South Asia routes.
Also, it took SQ and CX many decades to build to what they are now - with excellent service and good safety records, etc. Emirates think they can do the same in a few years. Maybe they can, but I have my doubts.
However, I think they are a bit optimistic in projecting Emirates' growth; plus I think their business model may be out of date.
Emirates definitely think they can be the next Singapore Airlines or Cathay Pacific - both based in small city "states"; but serve a whole region and fly to almost all corners of the world (except S. America). Both are classic "hub-and-spoke" carriers.
They make sense in the past, as the only planes that can fly really long distances are also big and expensive - i.e. the 747s. But look at what's happened over the Atlantic. Once the A310 and 767 proved that smaller twin-engine planes can fly point-to-point routes and make a profit, few airlines fly 747s over the Atlantic anymore, and many people now can bypass the JFKs, LHRs, and CDG on their way to Europe.
It's taken longer for that to happen in the Pacific, but many of us heading to Asia no longer have to stop in Japan (except for those flying Northwest!) first. It's going to be the same to South Asia. Pakistan International is getting 777-200LR that can fly directly to the US. Many carriers will be doing the same for India. Thai just started JFK-BKK this weekend. You only need 300 passengers or so 3-4 times a week to establish such direct US-South Asia routes.
Also, it took SQ and CX many decades to build to what they are now - with excellent service and good safety records, etc. Emirates think they can do the same in a few years. Maybe they can, but I have my doubts.
May 2nd, 2005, 12:42 PM
#42
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Just what is the big draw of Dubai anyway (aside from sun, sand, and shopping - all of which I can get closer to home)? Please enlighten me. For those of us living on the US west coast, I can see Dubai as a stopover destination on the way to somewhere else, but not as a primary destination. If I needed to fly to East Africa and Emirates had the best fares/schedules, I wouldn't mind visiting for a few days but I cannot see spending my entire holiday there.
May 2nd, 2005, 11:14 PM
#43
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I don't think anybody is suggesting that Dubai will be a primary destination for everyone.
For me, I think of Dubai like Vegas, Singapore, Hong Kong, its great to spend 2, 3, 4 days there, but any longer and it loses it's shine, especially in the summer months!
But if you think of winter, where can europeans go (this was discussed on the Europe board recently) to escape the cold for a week?
There are very few places within easy reach. Emirates are flying to lots of provincial airports and for most, Dubai is only 5 to 6 hours away direct
Perfect weather, experience the arabic culture, golf, beach, waterparks, nightlife and very reasonble rates.
I don't see Americans making up the numbers. After reading many posts about how fearful should I be as an American in Paris or Rome, I think the fear factor of travelling to an Arabic country would register a 10 for a majority of Americans.
I know in the UK it is getting more and more popular with people buying second homes there and I think its a remarkable story so far.
I wish them every success as I believe tourism helps to break many preconceived ideas people have of each other, either as the host or visitor.
Geordie
For me, I think of Dubai like Vegas, Singapore, Hong Kong, its great to spend 2, 3, 4 days there, but any longer and it loses it's shine, especially in the summer months!
But if you think of winter, where can europeans go (this was discussed on the Europe board recently) to escape the cold for a week?
There are very few places within easy reach. Emirates are flying to lots of provincial airports and for most, Dubai is only 5 to 6 hours away direct
Perfect weather, experience the arabic culture, golf, beach, waterparks, nightlife and very reasonble rates.
I don't see Americans making up the numbers. After reading many posts about how fearful should I be as an American in Paris or Rome, I think the fear factor of travelling to an Arabic country would register a 10 for a majority of Americans.
I know in the UK it is getting more and more popular with people buying second homes there and I think its a remarkable story so far.
I wish them every success as I believe tourism helps to break many preconceived ideas people have of each other, either as the host or visitor.
Geordie
May 6th, 2005, 05:51 PM
#44
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I don't like fly-by-wire. Period. Any time software is interposed between the pilot and the controls, the Laws of Systemantics come into play, <i>viz,</i>
<b>http://www.angelfire.com/indie/green_economics/Systemantics.pdf</b>
...specifically, axiom 26 on page 121.
<b>http://www.angelfire.com/indie/green_economics/Systemantics.pdf</b>
...specifically, axiom 26 on page 121.
Jan 23rd, 2006, 07:06 PM
#45
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The 380 can take off on a shorter runway than a 747 can. That's not the issue. As many have suggested here, it's the nightmare of loading and unloading 800 people on a two-level plane. No airport in the world is set up for it now. Many will not want the expense. I for one would not look forward to getting aboard that bin.
Dubai as the #1 travel destination? Seems dubious. They're building a destination from scratch; there wasn't anything there 15 years ago but sand. They're trying to do a Cancun. But Cancun isn't over 100 degrees F (40 C) half the year. What they've achieved so far is remarkable but I don't see that number of people wanting to go to a place that might as well be on Mars. Arabic culture? Not here. The place was virtually empty not long ago. It's the most vibrant (er, only vibrant) city in a dying region.
BTW, Dubai has (almost) no oil.
Dubai as the #1 travel destination? Seems dubious. They're building a destination from scratch; there wasn't anything there 15 years ago but sand. They're trying to do a Cancun. But Cancun isn't over 100 degrees F (40 C) half the year. What they've achieved so far is remarkable but I don't see that number of people wanting to go to a place that might as well be on Mars. Arabic culture? Not here. The place was virtually empty not long ago. It's the most vibrant (er, only vibrant) city in a dying region.
BTW, Dubai has (almost) no oil.
Jan 24th, 2006, 03:04 AM
#46
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fnarf999
I don't know of any airline that plans to have 800 passengers on a A380. As an example, I see your going to be flying economy with Qantas from LAX to SYD.
The A380 will fly this route with 501 (no way near 800) passengers, and as promised by the Qantas CEO last week, economy passengers will have a lounge area aboard the plane, more seating space and larger personal tv screens. Now that sounds a little more appealing than the current Qantas interior.
I've never been to Cancun but I'm having a problem comparing it with Dubai's growth plans.
In July, I was lucky enough to visit Dubai after my last entry on this thread and I was very impressed, so much so, we've booked to go again this September as I only had a couple of days to see things.
To say there is no Arabic culture in Dubai or the rest of the Emirates is not what I experienced, of course there's lots of sand, thats part of the heritage & culture i.e. Bedouin tribes, camels etc, but you've also got the old forts, the dhows and the beautiful Oman on your doorstep
We flew Emirates and were very impressed with Business Class. We had our 6 month old baby with us and the staff couldn't have been friendlier or more helpful on all the routes from Munich to Brisbane and back. I still think Cathay, Malaysian & Singapore are better but only on minor details.
Geordie
I don't know of any airline that plans to have 800 passengers on a A380. As an example, I see your going to be flying economy with Qantas from LAX to SYD.
The A380 will fly this route with 501 (no way near 800) passengers, and as promised by the Qantas CEO last week, economy passengers will have a lounge area aboard the plane, more seating space and larger personal tv screens. Now that sounds a little more appealing than the current Qantas interior.
I've never been to Cancun but I'm having a problem comparing it with Dubai's growth plans.
In July, I was lucky enough to visit Dubai after my last entry on this thread and I was very impressed, so much so, we've booked to go again this September as I only had a couple of days to see things.
To say there is no Arabic culture in Dubai or the rest of the Emirates is not what I experienced, of course there's lots of sand, thats part of the heritage & culture i.e. Bedouin tribes, camels etc, but you've also got the old forts, the dhows and the beautiful Oman on your doorstep
We flew Emirates and were very impressed with Business Class. We had our 6 month old baby with us and the staff couldn't have been friendlier or more helpful on all the routes from Munich to Brisbane and back. I still think Cathay, Malaysian & Singapore are better but only on minor details.
Geordie
Jan 24th, 2006, 06:15 PM
#47
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Living on the East coast I doubt I would vacation in Dubai. Dubia doesn't even come on my list when I'm thinking of vacation. I would rather go to Australia. I guess that whole middle east thing just cant get out my head.
Jan 25th, 2006, 02:55 AM
#48
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I can believe Qantas putting in a lounge area for coach passengers. I could also believe the U.S. airlines putting in an ATM machine so passengers in "cattle class" can buy more $5 drinks.
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