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<b>No other members of other religions were ever involved in any terror acts against civil aviation. That is a FACT.</b> Huh???
Samuel Byck - American Jew, attempted to hijack a plane in 1974 and crash it into the White House to kill President Nixon. AirChina pilot threaten to crash the plane if the crew tried to prevent him from flying to Taiwan in 1998. D.B. Cooper, hijackled a plane in 1971. In late 60s and throught 70s, US-Cuba and Cuba-US hijackings were almost a monthly events. Americans hijacking planes to Cuba and Cubans hijacking planes to US. Here is a list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...aft_hijackings |
oh, and I forgot about this little inciden in 2002:
<i>The 2002 Tampa plane crash was an incident that occurred on Saturday, January 5, 2002. The incident occurred when high-school student of Eastlake High in Tarpon Springs,FL Charles J. Bishop, inspired by the September 11 attacks, stole a Cessna 172 and crashed it into the side of the Bank of America Tower in downtown Tampa, Florida. The impact killed the teenager and damaged an office room. There were no other injuries.</i> |
Thanks, Ackislander for the correction. So let's change "all" to MOST (I'd dare to say 95% of air-travel terrorism has been Islamic).
You sure must agree that throughout the past decade or so -- and especially since 9/11 -- terror threats against civil aviation is Islamic. We don't go thru the hassle of security checks, here in the USA and in airports all over the world --- not because of Cubans or Croatians, but because of Al Qaeda and their bed fellows. And as to "sense of grievance coupled with the belief that no redress is possible in the existing system" ---- this is BS, of course... A. Are Muslims the ONLY people suffering "grievance" in our world? B. The drive behind Islamic terrorism is purely IDEOLOGICAL, and it is simple: SPREAD ISLAM ALL OVER THE WORLD. This is a Crusade to force Western civilization, the "Infidels" -- and moderate Muslims too -- to submit to Islam, THEIR kind of Islam. This has NOTHING to do with grievance, none of the 19 hijackers of 9/11 was a desperate, grieving person, as we now all know. |
<b>We don't go thru the hassle of security checks, here in the USA and in airports all over the world --- not because of Cubans or Croatians, but because of Al Qaeda and their bed fellows.</b>,
Once again you are misinformed. Introduction of metal detectors in all US airports were the result of US-Cuba hijackings. Nothing to do with Islamic radicals. |
Hey, AA, let's not play silly here.... You, as a frequent flyer should know better.... Unless you've never flew a commercial airliner before 9/11?
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silly? don't think so...
<i>Aircraft hijacking incidents between the United States and Cuba reached their peak in 1969. These incidents have variously been attributed to terrorism, extortion, flight for political asylum, and transportation between the two countries as a result of the ongoing antagonistic Cuba-United States relations. Subsequent measures by both governments contributed to a gradual reduction of reported incidents towards the mid 1970s. Governmental measures included an amendment to Cuban law which made hijacking a crime in 1970, <b>the introduction of metal detectors in US airports in 1973</b>, and a joint agreement between the US and Cuba signed in Sweden to return or prosecute hijackers.</i> |
AAFF, aren't you one of the most vocal critics of TSA here usually? Or am I confusing you with someone else?
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I'm, but for a reason.
I don't have a problem with physical security and if TSA concentraded on that alone, I believe we would be much safer. Unfortunately, TSA decided that intrusion into our personal lives, cutailing freedoms of their own citizens, bypassing our constitution, etc. under the disguise of "protecting us from evil forces" is the way to go. 90% of commercial cargo goes unchecked with much of it placed in the bellys of the big birds, but your average John Q Public can't fly because he's on the No Fly List because his credit rating may not be satisfactory, or he paid in cash or??? OTOH, OBL and many leaders of many terrorists groups are not on any No Fly List because we don't want them to know that we are looking for them??? |
AA, you really play a game here, as if NONE of us here really knows why we have to show up for a domestic flight TWO hours before, and THREE hours before an international one, as if we all have no clue as to why we're asked to take off our shoes, belts, empty our pockets, take out our laptops, have our bags searched.... We're all clueless -- but YOU'RE THE ONE WHO KNOWS, it's because of those Cuban hijackers....
As if 9/11 changed NOTHING in what people are going thru when they need to board on a flight... "cutailing freedoms of their own citizens, bypassing our constitution, etc..." ...As CubFan was saying "Somewhere in Hell, 19 people are laughing." and I would add "much closer than heaven, they're choking with laughter in Teheran too." Or maybe the problem is, it's been too long since we las suffered a devastating terror attack... A few more thousands of innocent Americans need to die for some "good hearts" to wake up and realize the ugly reality.... |
I presented you with facts but you insist on continuing your misguided tirade.
You go ahead and believe what you want. I feel sorry for folks that can't accept facts, but I guess we're all different. Let's review: You - <i>No other members of other religions were ever involved in any terror acts against civil aviation. That is a FACT.</i> Me and another Fodorite - presented facts that counter your statement. You - <i>Security started after 9/11</i> Me - Not true, snd once again I posted links and info that counters your believes. That is a fact! Have a nice weekend...:-) |
AA, you must be a real pro in propaganda.
You have an agenda and you won't let any facts, glaring facts, make even the slightest dent in your warped agenda. ...As if 9/11 has made NO CHANGE in the way airport security is conducted, as if 9/11 has NOTHING to do with what we're going thru today when we need to board a commercial flight.... As if the reason we need to go thru the hassle of airport security today -- is because one, Samuel Byck, who attempted to hijack a plane in 1974... Maybe you're one of those who think 9/11 was not an Islamist job? Or is Bin Laden a Cuban citizen, hiding in Havana? Wait, some of yours still claim 9/11 was all a CIA/Bush production, all an excuse so that the government can intrude into our lives, ahhh, now I finally know the truth. |
For heaven's sake, Mamamia, ease up. Your agenda couldn't scream more if you'd written it in bold red. You want to believe "Islamists" pose the sole threat in your idea of the world, and little things like facts don't seem to do anything but give you hives.
For now, a quote from The Little Prince: <i>I have serious reason to believe that the planet from which the little prince came is the asteroid known as B-612. This asteroid has only once been seen through the telescope. That was by a Turkish astronomer, in 1909. On making his discovery, the astronomer had presented it to the International Astronomical Congress, in a great demonstration. But he was in Turkish costume, and so nobody would believe what he said. Grown-ups are like that... Fortunately, however, for the reputation of Asteroid B-612, a Turkish dictator made a law that his subjects, under pain of death, should change to European costume. So in 1920 the astronomer gave his demonstration all over again, dressed with impressive style and elegance. And this time everybody accepted his report.</i> Now say good night. |
No reason to let something as insignificant as a fact or two get in the way of a perfectly good tirade.
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Not to make you more hysterical, Mamamia, but some of those TSA screeners are Muslims, but you certainly knew that, since you know what a Muslim looks like.
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This is not complicated, nor is it philosophical, Just honestly answer these 2 simple questions:
A. Wasn't 9/11 an Islamic job, pertpetrated by radical Muslims sent by Al Qaeda? B. Didn't 9/11 dramaticaly change the way airport security is conducted? Obviously you don't think that when you board a flight (any flight) in New York, or Paris, London, Tokyo, or Bangkok, required to show up hours before, asked to take off your shoes and belt, and go thru the familiar hassle of airport security these days ---- you don't do it because of one Samuel Byck, who attempted to hijack a plane in 1974, or Cuban exiles, or Croatian nationalists.... |
Yes, actually, things did change drastically during the Cuban hijacking era -- you are apparently too young to know that. I remember being "wanded" in 1973 in Rome's airport after something went off in the metal detector. Five years earlier, no such checking.
Just because the Powers That Be got motivated by the "embarrassment" of 9/11 doesn't mean there weren't a number of other kinds of threats out there. No one's trying to argue that certain Islamic extremists dedicated to terrorism aren't a threat. What we are trying, unsuccessfully, to get through to you is that generalizing to all Muslims and not paying attention to anyone else is folly, illogical, and doomed to problems. To put it another way: Random checking with no obvious pattern of choosing whom to check is a much better way to keep "evil-doers" off-balance than being completely predictable about who will get checked. Profiling -- to start all over again -- doesn't work. |
,,,,, Profiling -- to start all over again -- doesn't work.....
O.. but it does -- when done properly. The Israelis have proven that for decades. Going through security in an Israeli airport is vastly different. Our TSA security is more concerned with causing discomfort so that you think that they are doing a good job. But they keep flunking the tests. |
(Forgive me, but Israelis can be a lot more certain who their enemies are, no? We are "equal opportunity" targets.)
Profiling only works when it works... i.e., you catch someone and VOILA, hey, they fit a profile and whaddya know, it must work! But as a single method, crudely applied (and yes, that would apply to TSA, I'd guess), nope. |
The Israeli example is an excellent one and we (as many other countries) have learned a lot from their experience... I Flew El-Al 2 years ago, Toronto Tel Aviv, and was impressed with my "interrogation" by the Israeli security guy, and even more impressive, the way they conduct their security business in TLV international. But it's true, TLV international is a small airport, compared to ORD or JFK....
"generalizing to all Muslims and not paying attention to anyone else is folly" ---- But I never made such a claim, actually. I never said ALL Muslims are suspect, I actually mentioned the problem moderate Muslim societies have with the radicals, who regard them as "Infidels" as well... What I was, and am saying, is that to make security process more efficient and easy on passenger, you NEED to profile, BUT include in the list a much broader group of potential "trouble makers" (I was the one who mentioned young Japanese men who were "hired" by Muslims to carry out the massacre in TLV airport in 1972).... ... That old Wisconsin grandma traveling with her grandson -- they were behind me last time I flew from ORD, and they gave the old lady quite a hard time -- should NOT be in that group!... |
Mamamia: To put it plainly, I hate old people. And I hate people from Wisconsin. I think they should be checked rigorously. For you to claim the same thing about "middle-eastern people" requires you to do the same.
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