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Kalik Nov 7th, 2005 07:58 AM

The one thing that does bother me, Well is the complaining that goes on.I agree with CFC. Can you leave the drama at home. That would make my flight more relaxing.Yeah, if it bothers you that much you should upgrade to 1st class.Thanks and have a good day!!PS.Thanks for letting me vent.

Cassandra Nov 7th, 2005 03:53 PM

Don't think you're agreeing with CFC on this one, Kalik, but I do -- upgrading to first is just not an option for most people (otherwise they would do exactly that), and there's no reason other than sheer snobbery to say coach passengers are supposed to accept being treated badly because they don't have enough money to be entitled to complain. Or, in your case, "vent." (Good thing there isn't a "First Class Fodors" and a "Coach Fodors.")

rkkwan Nov 7th, 2005 04:59 PM

If enough people would vote with their wallet, then you'll find more legroom.

These days, there are lots of airlines with premium economy, and UA has Economy+ even for their domestic flights.

You don't even have to fly enough to earn Elite status with UA to get them - you can buy a "Economy Plus Access" membership for $299 a year.

Now I want those who complain about legroom go buy that membership and fly United. The only way an airline will maintain and introduce more legroom is if it makes economic sense for them. Last time AA put more legroom throughout their flight, but it didn't work for them.

Or if you market is served by Midwest Airlines (used to be called Midwest Express), then go fly their "signature" service with slightly wider seats and more legroom.

soccr Nov 8th, 2005 06:18 AM

rkkwan, have been all over UA website, and used their search function to no avail. Do you have a link to the page on "Economy Plus Access" that give details for signing up? Is it still available or did the offer expire?

soccr Nov 8th, 2005 06:25 AM

Found it:,6722,51325,00.html

Kalik Nov 8th, 2005 06:52 AM

CFC. I agree. Example:Cassandra
Have a good day and enjoy the person next to you. Oh, I mean your flight.
Just kidding!

cfc Nov 8th, 2005 08:04 AM

Does anyone understand what Kalik is agreeing with me about? Seems to me, complaining is just about the only recourse we have at this point, especially when you are "captive" in coach and do not have the money for the luxury of getting out of coach.

clevelandbrown Nov 8th, 2005 08:41 AM


I have never seen anyone dragged kicking and screaming into an airplane. You have more options than just whining; you can find another way to get where you are going, or just not go.

There has always been a steerage class of passengers, and those of us who don't think the cost of first class is worth it should be happy that the airlines provide a class of service that we can afford. Those airlines that have tried to offer a more generous tourist class experience appear to have found that most of us are unwilling to pay for it. Consider that the low-cost domestic carriers, who offer universally cramped and limited services, are prospering, while the domestic carriers who offer full service are, for the most part, struggling.

cfc Nov 8th, 2005 10:00 AM

Typical response from someone who does not know what it's like not to have a choice. Lots of people do not have a choice regarding how they get from point to point (no buses or trains), on what airline, on what kind of equipment, or in what class. Just because we don't kick and scream doesn't mean we aren't truly PO'd -- the very fact of the complaints here and on every travel discussion site proves it. I just don't think we should consider ourselves lucky to get the less-than-minimum dregs of service and seating, and therefore unentitled to protest.

clevelandbrown Nov 8th, 2005 12:34 PM

Tourism, the subject of this board, is plainly a luxury. It is not needed for our health, our employment, or anything else but our enjoyment, so unless you are a lemming, biologically programmed to walk off the cliff, you do have a choice, and that choice is to go more often in cramped quarters, or to go less, often, save your money, and buy the additional inches in the front cabin, or find an alternative method of getting where you want to go.

cfc Nov 8th, 2005 12:44 PM

Defining the argument as limited to tourism doesn't change the miserable conditions airlines subject everyone to (tourists or those required to travel), nor does it justify telling people who object to those conditions to shut up because they aren't entitled to complain.

Kalik Nov 17th, 2005 10:38 AM

I just returned from Aruba. It took us 1 hour until we recieved our bags in Philly. When I found mine there was a 4 inch rip in it. Like someone took a knife to it. They said they are going to try to fix it. My mom did not get her bag until they delivered it the next day to her house, She quickly realized her DVD player was missing. She called me and then I realizd my DVD player was missing too.Do you think the airline should be resposible for the loss? I now will be nervous to fly b/c now I have worry ahout steeling is going on in my bags. The passanger on our flight we a little mad the luggage took so long to get out. Now we know why. What to do?

rkkwan Nov 17th, 2005 10:41 AM

Kalik - File a complaint with the airline first and see what they say. Bring the suitcase, your boarding passes, luggage tags, everything to the airport.

Anyways, do not ever put anything worth money in your checked luggage. Definitely not DVD players. Especially to developing countries. I am not surprised that you get your luggage slit open and your DVD players stolen.

Kalik Nov 17th, 2005 12:38 PM

rkkwon, Thanks for the advice. Have a happy holiday!!

clevelandbrown Nov 17th, 2005 12:52 PM

For international flights, the airline's liability for lost or damaged luggage is established by treaty, and is quite low. Also, you have very little time to initiate a claim, so don't delay even a day.

If you want, you can look up the contract of carriage that was made a part of your ticket by reference, and see just what all the particulars are, but these things are written by lawyers and are long and often difficult to read.

While the airlines are protected by the limits of the treaty, I think many of them, as a gesture of good will, will sometimes give you more than they have to, but sometimes that might be in the form of a voucher for future travel, or some extra miles if you have a frequent flyer account.

The best advice, as given above, is to never put anything of significant value in checked luggage, nor anything, such as medication, that you can't afford to be without.

Kalik Nov 18th, 2005 08:37 AM

Thanks clevelandbrown. I will remember this for my next flight.Have a good Turkey day!

kireland Nov 21st, 2005 01:33 PM

I have flown in coach and business/first class and the one thing that I really dislike is airlines that say the forward bathrooms (the ones that are located in business/first class) are for business/first class passengers only. This usually means that 20% (or fewer) of the passengers share the same number of bathrooms as the rest of the passengers. This makes no sense and it is very elitist.

One other bathroom comment - while I'd like to be able to rely on fellow passengers to ensure the bathroom is relatively clean after they use it, I have learend that this is far too much to expect! As such I think the airline should be responsible for ensuring the bathrooms are clean for the duration of the flight.

Oh yeah, and more space in all seats!!!

rkkwan Nov 21st, 2005 03:07 PM

kireland - Why is that elistist? When someone pays 3-4 times the price, he/she should get a larger seat, better food, no line in bathroom, etc... What's wrong with that?

If one doesn't like that policy, he/she can go fly Southwest or a regional jet.

wally34949 Nov 22nd, 2005 07:20 AM

OK, this is really going to sound like Wally, but if the U.S. airlines want us to fly them to Europe, they should send us a few free drink coupons for flights across the Atlantic.

freiamaya Nov 26th, 2005 03:56 AM

Hi all!
1. I was in Italy several months ago and received an email from my travel agent stating that my flight was CANCELLED. Alitalia just outright cancelled my flight, and as they have only one international flight to my home daily, I had to cut my vacation short by one day, which meant I had to cancel my hotel reservation (which was not refunded as I did not cancel 24hrs in advance) and lose a day of well-earned travel. SO, I would like to see the schedules respected. If this is not possible, it would have been nice for the airline to compensate me for out-of-pocket expenses (reasonable ones, of course).
2. If there is a flight delay and we are all on the plane, TELL US WHY WE ARE WAITING. Our flight sat on the tarmac on my last international flight(European departure) for TWO hours without any information being provided. We all had to remain belted into our seats (the little light was on), but after 40 minutes, there was a general outcry and everyone stood up and stretched. Except for the stewards. Apparently, they can't leave their seats while the little light is on. Personally, I think they were afraid. Anyways, it turned out that the flight officers needed a flight authorization paper from their head office, and their computers were down. Two hours on a tarmac without services kind of sucked. SO, I would like better travel information and some passenger consideration in case of a delay. Please note that I realize that flight delays are often unavoidable. I just think it would have helped if the stewards or the flight engineer could have told us what was going on and perhaps ensure that there was water available for their passengers.
3. Why not convert planes from 1st class vs cattle class to a 2nd class, roomier experience. Lets face it, quite often, the 1st class seats are not taken, or have been sold to companies for less than their advertised price (corporate rate for 1st class is less than what you or I would pay). I would accept a bit of a price increase for more leg space and side space and overhead storage space. Perhaps some planes in a company's fleet could be converted to this, just to see if there is a market.
Just some thoughts!

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