Visa issues India/AA let me fly
 

I recently booked a ticket to India. I have a 10 year visa(multi entry). I had been there 28 days prior. I traveled on AA the first time(going to India), and booked my ticket with them again 28 days later. I flew to India and was sent back on the next flight, 3 hours later because of the new visa rule. AA in India said that AA should have stopped me in America and not let me begin my trip in the first place. I had a new passport with only the one stamp in it of my
last trip to India 28 days before. Not easy to miss. They also used the end of my ticket to
send me home. The airlines are responsible to get us home--not use our return ticket.

I think this was clearly their error. Immigration says it( my passport) says I can not fly, someone just was
in a hurry and missed it. I also booked it with my regular travel agent and she missed it. She does all my international travel and it is quite a bit. I have traveled to India from 3 to 5 times a year the past 5 years.

Question: Shouldn't my ticket be refunded or at least the last portion. Both Immigration in India and in USA said that AA made the mistake. Whom ever checked me in did not read
what my passport said.--No fly. Visa restrictions> Help. How do i go about getting a new free ticket or a voucher for my flight that I need to take in 3 weeks.

The OP is now well in the lead for this year's "I Will Not Take Responsibility For My Own Actions" award.

<u>You</u>, and only you, are responsible for having the proper documentation for travel. The OP's contention that it's American's fault, and not his/hers, is jaw-dropping.

Now it is true that the airline who transports a passenger without proper entry documents has to take that passenger out from the country that denies him/her entry. But when that happens, the airline is certainly entitled to demand that the passenger pays for that return travel <i>because it's the passenger's responsibility to have the proper entry documents</i>. While it is true that AA made a mistake, the primary responsibility belongs to the passenger, not AA.

The OP is lucky that AA accepted his/her return ticket, rather than charging full-fare.

I agree with Rizzuto. It is your responsibility and your responsibility alone to make sure you have proper documentation to travel.

+1

The passenger is always responsible for entry requirements. AA may have been in error but their only responsibility in that case is to repatriate you, but nothing says they cannot charge you for that. Fortunately, they did not charge the usual full fare, as mentioned.

What I do not understand is how you can have a current multi-entry visa which was not honored?

Did AA fly you home? It appears so. So why do they owe you ANYTHING. You booked a round trip flight, you got one...

The airlines do try to check for required travel documents but to expect the gate agent to be "expert" in all the various configuraitons of them... not realisitic.

(And is anyone else totally confused? In one paragraph poster indicates the visa was fine and in another indicates it says no fly... hmm... )

I'm reading this again too. It doesn't make sense. If you had a multiple-entry visa, what was there to send you home about? What is the "new visa rule" that you're talking about and whose requirements you apparently didn't meet?

Several years ago, I flew to Paraguay. I arrived and the immigration officer leafed through my passport. He asked me if I had a visa. Paraguay had just a few months earlier begun requiring advance visas for U.S. citizens and I'm embarrassed to say that I, a travel writer, didn't know it. The airline, also AA in this case, should never have let me board the plane, but I accepted that it was totally my fault. The officer called over his supervisor. He was very nice. He took me to his office where he typed up an official-looking letter that he said I should present when I left and would let me stay the planned duration of my trip.

Moral of the story: I was VERY lucky, and I now make a point to double check entry requirements even if it's a country I've been to before. I now have a 10-year multiple-entry visa for Paraguay in my passport.

nyla2424, are you delusional or what? You write '<i>I had a new passport with only the one stamp in it of my last trip to India 28 days before. Not easy to miss..</i>' So HOW did YOU miss it?

And then you write '<i>someone just was in a hurry and missed it. I also booked it with my regular travel agent and she missed it ...</i>'? Why is it everyone's fault but yours? I would say YOU missed it.

And then '<i>Whom ever checked me in did not read what my passport said.--No fly. Visa restrictions></i>'?!!! Surely you are putting us on here? Did YOU read what your passport said? Is this all just a scam to get a free ticket to India?

Now stand up like a man (or woman?), learn from your experience and take responsibility for your own mistakes.

And what are you going to do about your trip in 3 weeks? Get a new passport? A proper visa? You'd better get on it now and stop playing around on Fodor's.

Appears the 28 days between visits was the issue.

<i>There should be a gap of at least 2 months between two separate visits to India on a Tourist Visa. For Tourist Visa holders who wish to visit India within 2 months of their last visit, an application for a Permit to Re-enter India is necessary.</i>

Great catch, Patty!

Never been an issue for me but I now know that multi-entry does not always mean entry whenever you want.

And I can see how that would be missed by an airline agent as it is indeed pretty obscure.

While the information was easy to find (I just followed the visa requirement links from the consulate site), this does appear to be a new rule (as of Nov 2009). And if I had a 10 year visa that I'd been using for years, I might have neglected to check for new rules as well. I'm not saying it still wouldn't have been my responsibility to check but I can see how I could've easily made the same mistake.

Normally, I would agree wholeheartedly with the other posters here. However . . .

The OP purchased their ticket through a travel agent, and it is THEIR job to ensure that their client is informed of, and prepared for issues like this. Thus, I vote that the OP go after the TA for the cost of a new ticket to India. The TA screwed up here, and it cost the client a lot of time and money.

But, I do agree that it is NOT AA's fault.

Thank you for the expalanation, Patty.

No, it is not the travel agent's fault.

"No, it is not the travel agent's fault."

Care to elaborate? If the TA is not responsible for assisting their clients with a pretty elementary issue like this, then why bother using one at all?

Well, did the TA book the prior ticket??? Because if not the TA probably didn't know it was not the required 2 months.

It appears the OP is using tourist type visa for business......

"Well, did the TA book the prior ticket???"

According to the OP, she "books all his/her international travel." Even if she didn't, all she had to do was ask if the client had ever been to India -- another elementary question. Face it, the TA screwed up. We all make mistakes, but we all should be held accountable for them. In this case -- again -- as the TA's JOB is to take care of matters like this, it's her fault.

My mom is from India. And this is a new rule and I DID KNOW I traveled within 60 days. The TA did book my ticket both times and this is a long term visa not given easily unless you are of Indian decent. I have been coming and going up to 5 times a year with
no problem for years.... why would I think anything different.
And just so all of you who wrote know: AA in India said--AA should have stopped me @ my check in point..it was on my scan, the counter didn't read the scan. And no--I am not using it for BUSINESS!! Sounds like Rizzuto works for AA.

And what is the point of using an TA for international travel
for Asia trips if they don't even know the rules. Anyway, AA is fined money when they let someone travel when their documents are up to date but the rules have changed...and my visa was correct...as they said to me.

"AA in India" is absolutely correct. They should have stopped you before you board the plane.

Just like that guard outside the bank should have stopped you before you went inside to rob it. Now, tell the judge it's that guard's fault that you robbed the bank, and they should let you walk.

A travel agent makes the arrangements you ask them to make. They'll book a flight or a cruise or a hotel or a tour or a transfer because you ask them to. They're not there at your beck and call to take care of the little details you've forgotten about.

If you look at the fine print inside any tour brochure, you'll see something to the effect: "The passenger is responsible for obtaining all necessary visas." I take that to mean also "adhere to the terms of the visa."

If you guys are all correct-why does the airline get fined
thousands of dollars per person they let fly without making sure the visa restrictions are followed. Not the passenger> They are required to send each person back to their original departure. There were 10 people on my flight with this same problem. ( same visa with stay upto 6 months with multiple entry)
I adopted a child from India a year ago and flew home every 4 weeks for a week on this visa for 7 months straight.

For you Jeff:"adhere to the terms of the visa" were 10 years, multiple entry, with stay up to six months only having to return for a week to country of citizenship. Because of the terrorism in Mumbai, they just overturned all visa restrictions with this
new provision.

And for all you who feel like you are on facebook--I asked for help not smart remarks. So please leave out the coments
that are not helpful. Thank you.

You're asking for help, but I don't think there's anything anyone can do for you here.

The only thing I can think of is to talk to your travel agent and see what she suggests. Don't accuse her of anything as was suggested above because the TA did nothing wrong. Ask if maybe she could pull some strings with AA to get you another ticket as a goodwill gesture. Or maybe you could get a discounted ticket. Who knows? I wouldn't hold my breath for this happening, but I think it's worth a shot.

It's an age-old principle in travel that the passenger takes full responsibility for having travel documents in order and knowing the entry requirements. Airlines write the terms of purchase in their favor. This is one of them.

"They're not there at your beck and call to take care of the little details you've forgotten about."

Sorry, Jeff, but keeping up with visa requirements is most definitely not a "little detail" and is PART OF A TA's JOB! Anyone with a phone or computer can book flights, cars, hotels, etc. People pay for a TA to also keep up with, and advise them on ELEMENTARY issues such as this. The TA, understandably, probably assumed that the client would be OK, but, you know what they say about "assume . . ." I know it's unfashionable these days to not hold people accountable, but nevertheless, the TA IS responsible.

Nyla, yes, AA should have not let you on the plane, but they are NOT ultimately responsible for whether or not your documentation is in order -- it is YOURS, or, in this case, your TA's RESPONSIBILITY. And, I obviously completely disagree with Jeff . . . Go to your TA, ask her why she did not get the pertinent information -- which was HER JOB -- and ask her how she plans to remedy the situation . . .

LT, totally disagree based on previous experience as a TA.

I would certainly advise a client about passport and visa requirements, in writing, along the lines of "In order to be able to travel to India you must have a passport which is valid for at least 190 days following the return date of your holiday, and obtain an India visa. Please contact the India Embassy for further instructions."

But I never examined a client's passport and visa to ensure that they complied with all the requirements, nor was I ever requested to do so, and I always included the disclaimer, "It is your responsibility to ensure that you have the correct documentation and visa to enter India. We cannot offer refunds to any clients who are refused entry to India or on their flight."

I would be very surprised to learn that the OP's TA did not do the same. It's pretty standard practice. Unfortunately, it's also pretty common for clients to ignore such instructions - until they have a problem and decide to look around for someone else to blame for their own failing.

I agree, Linda. Lotsa luck to the OP is he chooses to go in with both guns drawn the way LT suggests.

Not to sound lawyerly because I'm not an attorney, but isn't the contractual agreement between travel agency and client that the TA books a flight on behalf of the client when requested and receives a commission (not very much these days) for performing that task. That's it. There's a point up until which the TA "owns" the reservation and if problems crop up with the flight, the TA helps straighten things out. But if the problem is of the passenger's creation (that seems to be the case here), all bets are off. If this were to be taken to court, that's what any judge would rule, given that age-old dictum that the passenger accepts full responsibility for complying with entry requirements. That's one of the terms the passenger agrees to when buying an international plane ticket.

Julia and Jeff, you do shed some more light on this for me. So, what you both are basically saying is that if you hide behind some legal disclaimers, you are essentially covered. I'll admit, it's been years since I've used a TA, and, if this experience is any indication, I probably never will, and this should just further reinforce the fact that with the advent of the Internet, and the apparent lack of any real service beyond simply booking tickets/rooms (which anyone can do), TAs have become about as useful and relevant as buggy whips.

You are talking about legalities; I'm talking about SERVICE. All any of us has to go by is what the OP is telling us. As he/she points out, they are a frequent customer of this TA, with at least a good portion of their business being high-fare international travel
(to India). If that is indeed the case, you would think that this person is a valued client, and that the TA would want to "go the extra mile" for them, which, in this case, would include doing even a cursory check of the visa rules, instead of simply booking a ticket and handing the client a bunch of legal disclaimers to absolve them of any responsibility. There is a difference between personally inspecting the client's paperwork (which I am NOT saying was the TA's responsibility) and simply going online or making a phone call to the Indian Consulate to confirm there have been no recent changes to the visa regulations (which is even more inexcusable, given the fact that this TA should have known the client very well), and informing the client of any changes. Sorry, this TA may be legally covered, but if this is the "service" that this TA is providing, I'd advise the OP to just simply save the TA fee and book their travel themselves, as this is essentially all the TA is doing.

We're going to go around and around on this and not convince each other. That's fine. :)

Julia can answer this better then me, but TA commissions are zilch these days. The era of going into a travel agency and sitting down for a leisurely meeting while you both map out your trip hasn't existed in a long time. Most people are not willing to pay for the kind of service you seem to think they're entitled to. The commission earned on a flight barely covers the agency's cost of booking that ticket if I understand the way things are these days.

What prevented the OP from calling or going online to see if there had been changes in the rules? As I mentioned way above in this thread, I always do that after my close call in Paraguay. The situation was my fault and I take full responsibility for it. I haven't seen the OP accept any responsibility for what happened to him.

<i>As he/she points out, they are a frequent customer of this TA, with at least a good portion of their business being high-fare international travel (to India).</i>

With AA and most if not all US carriers, the agency would make zero commission so the fare is irrelevant. They would make a small flat fee assuming they charge one.

One point that seems to be overlooked is OP said he/she made frequent trips to India so wouldn't it stand to reason his/her TA might have thought OP was more well versed in the visa entry requirements and therefore did not deem it necessary to say anything to the client other than "be sure your paperwork is in order"? Nowhere in the information OP gave was any indication the TA was a specialist in booking travel to India and thus I would not expect the TA to know of what obviously were very recent changes in the visa regulations.

OP is looking for someone other than him/herself to blame. OP claims to have made multiple trips to India and therefore should be an experienced traveller and by definition that means he/she should be fully aware that it is ultimately the traveller's responsibility for everything from getting the right tickets, being at the airport on time and having the necessary ID's, passports, visas, etc. Others like TA's and gate agents are there to assist but the ultimate responsibility rests solely with the traveler.

"And for all you who feel like you are on facebook--I asked for help not smart remarks. So please leave out the coments
that are not helpful. Thank you."

In other words...

If you don't think that AA owes me a free trip, I don't want to hear about it???

When you start lecturing the posters on what they should respond... you need to find a personal message board where you can "control" the audience :)

LT, you are making a lot of unwarranted assumptions, leading me to believe you have no idea what you're talking about. TAs don't '<i>hide behind some legal disclaimers</i>.' This is simply the nature of the business, it's nothing new and has nothing to do with '<i>the advent of the Internet</i>.' Clients are assumed to be responsible adults who will follow up on passport requirements, visas, etc.

India introduced new visa rules in December 2009. The OP visited India since then, before this most recent visit, and writes '<i>( my passport) says I can not fly</i>' and '<i>my passport said.--No fly. Visa restrictions</i>.' Do you really believe s/he was not exposed to signs, posters, pamphlets, etc, explaining the new rules? It was stamped in the passport - how does that happen if you don't hand over your passport to be stamped? Was it done stealthily and secretly?

Continental has its policies posted on its check in gates and the agents questioned me even though it was my first flight to India after this policy came into effect.

Also, see if you qualify for the OCI card ( overseas citizen of Indian origin). It comes with unlimited visa without the 2 month restrictions. Costs $275 and is valid for life