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TSA--are they doing a consistent and thorough job

TSA--are they doing a consistent and thorough job

Apr 4th, 2008, 08:25 AM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,008
filmwil, so you are saying that if we weren't in Iraq, then Americans who fly could rest easy and not worry about terrorists blowing them out of the sky?
bettyk is offline  
Apr 4th, 2008, 09:26 AM
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Wow, Betty, you sure seem to enjoy taking a LOT of creative liberties with my statements.

That's a lot of interesting gap filling you're doing there. I'm pretty sure I didn't say that at all (yet again). That's quite a leap on your part--if being in Iraq is the administration's ONLY bad policy, you might want to read the news a little closer.

I know things might seem black and white to you, but that's not reality, Betty.

If you actually want to have a political discussion about Bush's policies and how his actions have made national security worse, then start another thread on a different board. Can we get back to the original point here? Is the TSA doing a good job or not...I think that's where we were.
filmwill is offline  
Apr 4th, 2008, 12:21 PM
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 545
"Logic may deem that the relationship is not provable, but experience accepts that there is some relationship."

Oh, there is absolutely some relationship. In classic rhetoric, it's called 'Post Hoc, ergo Propter Hoc'('After that, therefore because of that'), a famous logical fallacy.

So when one has neither a train of logic to support one's thesis, nor incontrovertibile evidence -- one is only left with 'proof by repeated assertion', which rarely succeeds in making a credible case -- except in politics.

So, I'll continue to re-assert that it is indeed my 'goat dance' (love the term) that is keeping the Bad Guys off the planes.

And the regime that brought the TSA and the Homeland Security monolith into being will continue to re-assert that it's their actions that are bringing the desired result.

My logic is as good as theirs, and apparently our methods are equally effective.

Unfortunately, it won't be until after another terrorist-borne disaster generates needless damage and death that the futility of TSA as an effective deterrent will become blindingly obvious.
fritzrl is offline  
Apr 4th, 2008, 01:28 PM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,049
I don't put a lot of store in logicians. It seems to me they spend years in academia proving to their own satisfaction that hummingbirds can't fly, then spend the rest of their lives with their heads in a position where they won't see the hummingbirds flying around them. If there is a practical use for this field, I'd like to hear it.

Since Fritzrl asserts that his dance, rather than TSA's screening, is responsible for the lack of hijackings, I won't disagree with him, and will give him full credit when he misses a step and a hijacking occurs.

I'm no great fan of the TSA screenings, but periodically someone posts here how bad TSA is at their job, and how good El Al security is when, by any rational scoresheet they have equal success. Of course, a truly equal comparison is not possible, as no one is privy to exactly how El Al security works, nor how much it costs, while TSA's work is very public (to the point that savvy travelers often seem to know about new TSA procedures before the screeners themselves). I won't get into whether Israel observes civil rights; we each have our feelings on that, but it seems to me that El Al is free to call out flyers because of status, while in the US we have constitutional and legal protections against that. I think the OP suggested that all Saudis should be screened, and I think most of us realized that, even in these strained times, that would not be allowed.

My belief is that the terrorists realize that, with hardened cockpits (an excellent idea with relatively low cost, and no burden on passengers), the most they can do now is crash a few planes, which is hardly a blow of the magnitude of crashing planes into office buildings. So I suspect they are laughing in there caves at all the money we are spending on TSA. and planning other types of activities. I can think of quite a few that are feasible and would produce far more horror than a few plane crashes, but I don't want to reveal my ideas if there is any chance that the terrorists would benefit.

If we could eliminate TSA screening, we would all have a lot more time and a lot less aggravation. Perhaps I could get back my blueberry jam, and my mother in law would be again allowed to fly (they ban her now because of her sharp tongue).
clevelandbrown is offline  
Apr 4th, 2008, 05:06 PM
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Posts: 6,994
Point is, if you only have so many agents, and oly so much time to screen passengers, why not use a little common sense, and spend that time looking carefully at people who 'might' fit a profile of past terrorists. So far, not too many 'little old ladies in wheel chairs.' When I saw what they were doing to her, I winced.!! Trying to get her to stand (she couldn't) so three of the agents were 'helping' her to her feet while they examined her posterior area. Now really???!!! And they didn't even look at the tall, swarthy guy who was shifting uncomfortably about, didn't speak English, and had only an umbrella and a sack of some kind to put thru the screener?

clarasong is offline  
Apr 4th, 2008, 05:42 PM
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clarasong, if the TSA did do what you suggest, they would be accused of "profiling" and how upset do you think people would be about that?
bettyk is offline  
Apr 4th, 2008, 09:27 PM
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But benny, that is the point. For example, if someone holds up the 7/11 and police ask the clerk "what did the bandit look like, can you describe the assailant?" and he/she says, "well, it was a female, she was about 6 ft. tall, Asian, and had a large gold tooth in front, braids, and long fingernails."...who do you think they are going to look for first.....duh?

It is profiling, yes, but you need to look for the people who fit a profile of the people you are looking for, i.e., terrorists....and by and large, they are NOT little old ladies in wheel chairs. They were, at least in recent experience, pretty alike with attributes that area easily identified.

Okay, lets talk about who they are not, if you like that scenario. They are probably NOT little old ladies, gents who have Top Secret Clearances (MY dh), little girls, little boys, babies, old men, etc. We can, by the law of probabilities, eliminate them pretty much and spend the manpower and money elsewhere. Now lets concentrate on the people who "might" be terrorists;

...I think a little intelligence is in order here.
clarasong is offline  
Apr 8th, 2008, 12:54 PM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,094
I flew again this weekend. My home airport was much better than the week before, as the TSA person was not distracted this time. Being at Orange might have something to do with that

I will say though, that the Omaha airport was impressive. Going through security for our flight home, they were all very thorough and professional, yet polite.
mms is offline  

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