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Security list tracking travels of US citizens

Security list tracking travels of US citizens

Dec 4th, 2006, 09:23 PM
  #21  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
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totally.
lynnejoel1015 is offline  
Dec 5th, 2006, 10:57 AM
  #22  
 
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As long as I am not on my manager's "no fly bonus" list I'm OK
FainaAgain is offline  
Dec 5th, 2006, 11:14 AM
  #23  
 
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It doesn't bother me that Amazon keeps suggesting that I might want to buy x, because other people who have bought something I have bought also bought x. I think that is just skilled marketing, and they don't tell me who the other people are.

However, my ISP is a cable company in an urban area, so it covers many towns and suburbs, and I'm a little leery that when I go to a new website, they have some pictures of scantily clad women who reside in my suburb and want to date me. Perhaps there is something in the expanded address that reveals my suburb, but how do they know that I'm a man?
clevelandbrown is offline  
Dec 5th, 2006, 09:55 PM
  #24  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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We're all probably on the list by now, just for entering in this forum. Big Brother is watching, you know.

But aren't you grateful to Big Brother that He is keeping all of us so nice and safe?
JBHapgood is offline  
Dec 10th, 2006, 07:00 PM
  #25  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
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This is just an example of the arrogant, controlling and yet incompetent behavior of the TSA part of the department of Homeland Security. We travelers and taxpayers pay for this outrage, both in higher ticket costs and taxes and in time spent putting up with these guys. We should all write a letter to our congressperson about this, demanding that the whole TSA be dismantled. It is a failed experiment.
motorguy is offline  
Dec 11th, 2006, 06:58 AM
  #26  
HKP
 
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Not at all happy with private-information-grabbing trend in any and all parts of society.

Only consolation is that collecting info isn't the same as using it; and using it requires a whole lot more organization, competence, and efficiency than most bureaucracies -- public or private -- seem to have.
HKP is offline  
Dec 11th, 2006, 10:43 AM
  #27  
 
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I just search the public library, this is another list may be watched - and no, I'm not reading any almanachs
FainaAgain is offline  
Dec 13th, 2006, 05:49 PM
  #28  
 
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So I am a 61 year old white guy with a background that nobody could fault. (Same home address for 33 years, same job for 35 years, same wife for 39 years, ...) And I pay my taxes on time. And yet the TSA still treats me like a terrorist. Why is my government doing this to me?
motorguy is offline  
Dec 13th, 2006, 09:42 PM
  #29  
 
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Motorguy, it is necessary that you never know why the TSA is treating you like a terrorist because the reasons must necessarily be secret lest the information aid the enemy. Please appreciate that this is a War against unspeakable Evil, and sometimes innocent people get caught up in the crossfire as our government works in secret to defeat a terrible Enemy.

If I may make a suggestion, you should learn to accept whatever inconvenience or difficulty you might encounter from the security apparatus with grace, good cheer, and above all gratitude. A few necessary hassles are a small price well worth paying for the eventual Victory in the Global War On Terror; the inconvenience is merely tangible and reassuring evidence that the TSA's security strategy is making continual and highly effective strides toward the Victory that we all desire. Have faith in the TSA, and be assured that there is a good reason for whatever they do, even though that reason must be forever hidden from both you and from the Enemy.

With our unquestioning compliance and support, the TSA will one day achieve Victory and permanently eradicate the scourge of the terrorist Enemy from the face of the Earth. When that day arrives, but not a day before, our Leaders will begin the process of carefully restoring selected and appropriate liberties that, for now, must necessarily be restricted or suspended so that the Enemy cannot abuse them. Be grateful for each hassle necessarily inflicted by the TSA, as it brings us one step closer to the blessed day of Victory!

God bless America!
JBHapgood is offline  
Dec 14th, 2006, 12:11 PM
  #30  
 
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Q: Where is the line between too little and too much?

A: In utopia.
berry is offline  
Dec 14th, 2006, 12:39 PM
  #31  
 
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JBHapgood,

or as the famous quote goes:

he, who is willing to give up liberty to gain little security, deserves neither security nor liberty
AAFrequentFlyer is offline  
Dec 14th, 2006, 01:36 PM
  #32  
 
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Motorguy,

I take it that you think that only those who are of or look like they are of Islamic background should be searched or tossed from the plane? Maybe 6 Imams who dare to pray in the airport or the plane?

I don't get searched here in Egypt b/c I am a foreigner who doesn't look like she's Islamic. It's the Islamic people from other countries who get searched here.

Which system is better?

Is t
sunshine007 is offline  
Dec 14th, 2006, 04:19 PM
  #33  
 
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<I take it that you think that only those who are of or look like they are of Islamic background should be searched or tossed from the plane?>

Oh, please, sunshine. He never said that. You are setting up a 'straw man' to knock it down. And there were many other Imams who flew home from the meeting in Minneapolis. How many of them were searched or tossed from the plane?

<Maybe 6 Imams who dare to pray in the airport or the plane?>

You know that that's not all they did.
berry is offline  
Dec 15th, 2006, 05:56 AM
  #34  
 
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Basically, I was pointing out that there are different approaches in dealing with this problem if you accept that planes need to take steps to try to avoid flying with "terrorists" on board.

In the US there is a system which theoretically treats everyone equally when being subjected to searches. It's random unless certain warning signs occur. So 61 year old white guys get checked as well as 61 year olds from other races, ethnic groups & religions.

Of course we know that that isn't entirely true. Do you really think that the Imams would have had the problems if they were not Moslem? Do you think a passenger would have complained about them if they were a group of Irish priests kneeling while saying the Rosary?

The Israelis have, I am told, a system where everyone really is treated like a potential terrorist. I don't think that Motorguy would like that system at all.

The Egyptians, as I pointed out above, have a system where I (middle aged, white American) and my belongings are not searched in hotels or at tourist sites. Instead, it's the Egyptians and other Islamic people who are searched. That one, of course, wouldn't stand scrutiny by the US court system.

Or we could all go back to the old way and have none of this screening, searching, etc. going on.

Instead of whining because of the TSA, why don't we have a discussion on the different approaches?
sunshine007 is offline  
Dec 23rd, 2006, 02:14 PM
  #35  
 
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This is for Mr. Hapgood:

None of the turkeys who work for the TSA will ever figure out, from my apparent attitude when I am dealing with them, just what I think of them. I am the perfect picture of joviality and obedience. But don't think that I am grateful for what they are doing. Yes, I agree that the threat is unspeakable evil. But the TSA is doing NOTHING to alleviate the threat, and by spending its (our) resources foolishly they are probably making it easier for the bad guys do to the next bad thing. We do have government agencies (DOD comes to mind) that are capable of sorting out who can be trusted, as with classified information. We also have agencies that have done an abysmal job (think of DOE and the 'chinese spy' who wasn't a spy at all but spent time in solitary while they tried, KGB like, to break him). It looks like TSA is in that latter category.
motorguy is offline  
Dec 25th, 2006, 05:33 AM
  #36  
 
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Actually, I have been through Tel Aviv and have dealt with Israeli security. I have cited it as a model that our folks should emulate. It focuses on identifying 'bad people' as opposed to 'bad stuff'. No, they don't treat everyone as a terrorist. (as the US does). But they do talk to everyone. In my case for maybe ten seconds.
One might remember that day in (was it 1978?) when an El Al pilot refused to fly with several arabs on board and kicked off all but two. The two tried to hijack his airplane but through some skillful flying and intervention by security guards they were able to catch the terrorists (and kill one, but that leads to another story). The rest of the arabs went and hijacked a Pan Am flight. The elephant in this room is that praying irish priests are not going to be a threat to the airplane, nor are praying budhists. There is only one easily identifiable religious tradition who's clerics are likely to be a problem.
motorguy is offline  
Dec 25th, 2006, 07:50 AM
  #37  
 
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Here's to you, Motorguy.
CubFanAlways is offline  
Dec 25th, 2006, 09:09 AM
  #38  
 
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Folks, can we stop using Israel as a model?

While I do admit that their airport security system does work well for them, it would be a nightmare if this country decided to adopt it, and here is why...

Isreal has 1 international airport that on the average serves ~25K people per day, or ~8.5 million per year.

Atlanta alone handled about 88 million passengers per year in 2005. Add Chicago, New York, Boston, Denver, Dallas, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle and all the other airports and hopefully you can see what a logistical nightmare it would become.

Imagine how many "very well trained agents" we would need to hire and pay if we wanted to adopt the Israeli system?

Can we just accept certain risk when traveling? There are bad people outthere and we have to accept it as part of daily life. Just like the shooting in the mall yesterday, or a drunk driver going through red light and hitting a van with an entire family being killed...

Acceptable risks is what our founding fathers had in mind when they wrote the constitution. I'll take liberty anytime and take my chances with the bad guys as opposed to giving my government any more powers under the misconception that it's for our own good.....

on that note,

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

AAFrequentFlyer is offline  
Dec 25th, 2006, 11:38 AM
  #39  
 
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First: Motorguy, I hope you realize I was being sarcastic. Regrettably, many people don't recognize it as such, as it is very close to the claptrap our Leader (and his many "commentator" co-propagandists) prefers us to believe. We really are supposed to be grateful for what the TSA is doing, and particularly refrain from pointing out how stupid much of it so obviously is. Criticism "aids the enemy," presumably by damaging the illusion of infallibility our Leader likes to project.

Although our Leader has officially redefined "patriotism" as "blind, unquestioning support for our Leader, his Party, and its donors," I honestly believe that real patriotism includes speaking out when you believe that the Leader is damaging the country. The TSA (and the tracking system that started this thread) is an ideal example-- it's trampling ever harder on our liberty, privacy and dignity while providing no reason to believe it's giving us any benefit. Yes, terrorism is a real threat that probably requires some necessary intrusive measures to contain it. But everything I've seen suggests that the intrusive measures at airports are nothing more than "security theater" that at best offers the appearance of security and at worst actually increases the risk to travelers. The real purpose might actually be to make us accepting of sacrificing our liberty, privacy, and dignity in the name of "security" so our Leader can make that sacrifice even more pervasive to suit its own purposes. Look at our Leader's lengthy public track record of incompetence and utter contempt for civil liberties and the rule of law and you might reach the same conclusion.

I'm certainly not opposed to genuine security measures at airports. I just want reason to believe that those measures are effective, and that we're getting value for what we're paying in costs and intrusion. I can't believe that the TSA's current "system" meets that test.

Second, AA: Sometimes I suspect that the TSA has unintentionally caused the death of more people than the 9/11 hijackers ever did. The dubious hassles they've added to air travel have surely convinced many people to drive rather than fly. Some of them surely suffered injury or death as a result, since driving is far more dangerous than flying. This is only speculation, since even if the government could measure such a thing, I doubt they would report it among the statistics with which they constantly bombard us.

Our Leader apparently wants us to believe that we can eliminate terrorism if only we would surrender enough liberty and privacy and put complete unquestioning trust in what they do with it in secret. That is, of course, complete rubbish. Terrorism can no more be eliminated than drugs, although we will continue to spend billions of dollars and erode our liberties on the false premise of Victory in the Drug War as well. The best we can do is to employ intelligent measures that reduce the threat of terrorism as much as possible while always respecting the rights of innocent people. Our Leader is neither interested in nor capable of doing that. So we're stuck with "security theater" for which we had best be properly grateful to our Leader. That's what America has become in the 21st century.
JBHapgood is offline  
Dec 25th, 2006, 12:29 PM
  #40  
 
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Why do I suspect that this country could never have won WWII with the current inability to handle any inconvenience?
Carrybean is offline  

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