PATHETIC - Domestic travel in the USA
Sep 4th, 2008, 05:32 PM
#21
A discounted business class ticket is still not the lowest possible fare.
Flying on a contracted fare usually means NOT flying on the lowest possbile fare.
Employees are not required to leave on a 6AM flight and return on an 8PM flight in order to get the lowest possible fare.
Getting the lowest possible fare means booking in advance, something that most business travelers don't do. They are not required to do so.
Flying nonstop and at preferred times of day are other reasons that corporate travelers don't pay the lowest possible fares. They aren't required to stay over a Friday or Saturday night to get a lower fare.
Ok, I can conced that there is corporate pressure to keep fares low. The ones with negotiated rates will try to negotiate lower. Others will save by teleconferencing or just by cutting back travel. But corporate customers are less sensitive to price and when they need to travel they will pay for it.
So, spank the corp traveler for the alleged pathetic state of things, just not as hard as the leisure traveler. If everyone paid the fares that business travelers paid then the airlines would be in better shape.
Flying on a contracted fare usually means NOT flying on the lowest possbile fare.
Employees are not required to leave on a 6AM flight and return on an 8PM flight in order to get the lowest possible fare.
Getting the lowest possible fare means booking in advance, something that most business travelers don't do. They are not required to do so.
Flying nonstop and at preferred times of day are other reasons that corporate travelers don't pay the lowest possible fares. They aren't required to stay over a Friday or Saturday night to get a lower fare.
Ok, I can conced that there is corporate pressure to keep fares low. The ones with negotiated rates will try to negotiate lower. Others will save by teleconferencing or just by cutting back travel. But corporate customers are less sensitive to price and when they need to travel they will pay for it.
So, spank the corp traveler for the alleged pathetic state of things, just not as hard as the leisure traveler. If everyone paid the fares that business travelers paid then the airlines would be in better shape.
Sep 5th, 2008, 07:27 AM
#22
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Eye of the Beholder. Air travel in the USA (or anywhere else)is a modern miracle. My son left Seattle and 26 hours later he was in Naples, Italy. A few years ago this trip might have taken three months! Further back it could have taken a year. Our monied elite have always travelled in comfort because they paid for it. Travellers demanding low fares have created 'cushionless' travel. Next time try to move about without using air travel. Calculate milage costs at $0.50 a mile..add in motels and meals...is air travel really 'pathetic'?
Sep 6th, 2008, 10:31 AM
#24
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HariS, sorry you had a bad day/s flying. But that can happen in any country with any airline.
Anywhere I go in the US or any another country, I would rather drive than fly and always do, if I have the time, or if the drive time and "hurry up and wait fly time" are about the same(shorter distances).
Java, Just returned from Houston-Richmond VA and Norfork VA-Houston, both non-stop: leaving on Houston-Albuquerque,NM non-stop next week in coach class.
Had several time options all reasonable ones too. These are not major cities except for Houston.
Flights left on time and arrived on time.
Served drinks, had to buy food, knew that going in, so just bought something in the departure area.
In a few months will leave on an extended RTW trip, US to Australia, Asia, Africa and Europe and back. Involves 22 separte flights, Will use 6 different Star Alliance carriers and 4 other carriers, plus some train and self driving transfers in several of the places.
Flights from USA to first destination and from last destination home are non-stop as are all the flights to each major destination.
HariS- try as I might I could not go where I wanted in non-stop hops using your favorite airlines-
"The airlines that set the bar IMHO are Singapore, Emirates, Jet airways and Kingfisher. SAA is not too shabby"
So won't be able to compare them with others, unfortunately.
Hear they are great, but Singapore and Emirates, at least, are hard to use unless you are willing to go through Singapore or Dubai. I know, because I tried fit my plans to their schedules. It always resulted in much more air time and an extra flight.
Could US carriers be better, yes, but so could many others. Are they the worst? Not by a long shot! That award goes to AeroLineas of Argentina!
Anywhere I go in the US or any another country, I would rather drive than fly and always do, if I have the time, or if the drive time and "hurry up and wait fly time" are about the same(shorter distances).
Java, Just returned from Houston-Richmond VA and Norfork VA-Houston, both non-stop: leaving on Houston-Albuquerque,NM non-stop next week in coach class.
Had several time options all reasonable ones too. These are not major cities except for Houston.
Flights left on time and arrived on time.
Served drinks, had to buy food, knew that going in, so just bought something in the departure area.
In a few months will leave on an extended RTW trip, US to Australia, Asia, Africa and Europe and back. Involves 22 separte flights, Will use 6 different Star Alliance carriers and 4 other carriers, plus some train and self driving transfers in several of the places.
Flights from USA to first destination and from last destination home are non-stop as are all the flights to each major destination.
HariS- try as I might I could not go where I wanted in non-stop hops using your favorite airlines-
"The airlines that set the bar IMHO are Singapore, Emirates, Jet airways and Kingfisher. SAA is not too shabby"
So won't be able to compare them with others, unfortunately.
Hear they are great, but Singapore and Emirates, at least, are hard to use unless you are willing to go through Singapore or Dubai. I know, because I tried fit my plans to their schedules. It always resulted in much more air time and an extra flight.
Could US carriers be better, yes, but so could many others. Are they the worst? Not by a long shot! That award goes to AeroLineas of Argentina!
Sep 6th, 2008, 11:18 AM
#25
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rkkwan wrote: "Choose your airline. Not all airlines are the same. My family mainly flies one that uses fairly new 737s for most domestic flight, provides free meals on some flights, provides free blanket and pillows in a sealed plastic bag on red-eyes and some non-redeyes, <b>and doesn't charge for 1st checked bag, yet. Yes, such airline exists.</b>"
Regarding that free checked bag - oops, not anymore (unless you are elite)!
Regarding that free checked bag - oops, not anymore (unless you are elite)!
Sep 6th, 2008, 11:33 AM
#26
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I have been travelling through all 5 continents and I have to admit that HariS is simply right. Some examples from our last visit to US from EU last july.
We were waitlisted on DL Houston to Salt Lake City. The flight was fully booked, so our bags flew while we did not. They had forgotten to put the stand-by tags on them. We then flew on a later flight with CO and once arrived in SLC we claimed our basg by DL. The DL agent asked me whether I could see our bags in that office, I said: yes, those two... He told me: well just take them !! They did not crosscheck the tags numbers with those on our receipts. Everybody could have picked up our luggage without any problem.
We were then waitlisted again on DL Salt Lake City to San Francisco. It happened exactly the same: we did not take the seats while our bags were loaded on board. My approach to the baggage service in SFO once arrived was again exactly the same and with the same result. The agent told me: if you see your bags here just take them !!
By the way we had been upgraded to first class on the later DL SLC-SFO flight. The service was really pathetic: just a few peanuts and a soft drink for a 1 and half hour flight in first class !!!
What is worst is that now even international flights with US carriers are becoming even more pathetic!! United is going soon to start chargeing between $ 5 to 7 for meals on intercontinental flights !
We were waitlisted on DL Houston to Salt Lake City. The flight was fully booked, so our bags flew while we did not. They had forgotten to put the stand-by tags on them. We then flew on a later flight with CO and once arrived in SLC we claimed our basg by DL. The DL agent asked me whether I could see our bags in that office, I said: yes, those two... He told me: well just take them !! They did not crosscheck the tags numbers with those on our receipts. Everybody could have picked up our luggage without any problem.
We were then waitlisted again on DL Salt Lake City to San Francisco. It happened exactly the same: we did not take the seats while our bags were loaded on board. My approach to the baggage service in SFO once arrived was again exactly the same and with the same result. The agent told me: if you see your bags here just take them !!
By the way we had been upgraded to first class on the later DL SLC-SFO flight. The service was really pathetic: just a few peanuts and a soft drink for a 1 and half hour flight in first class !!!
What is worst is that now even international flights with US carriers are becoming even more pathetic!! United is going soon to start chargeing between $ 5 to 7 for meals on intercontinental flights !
Sep 6th, 2008, 11:59 AM
#27
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Fabio,
All 5 continents?
Love those Aerolineas Argentinas; I think the only one that is better in S.A. is Varig (has their licence been revoked yet)?
Let us not forget about LAM in Africa; or Sudan airways - now we talking airlines!
All 5 continents?
Love those Aerolineas Argentinas; I think the only one that is better in S.A. is Varig (has their licence been revoked yet)?
Let us not forget about LAM in Africa; or Sudan airways - now we talking airlines!
Sep 6th, 2008, 12:03 PM
#28
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People take their own suitcases off the luggage carousel and walk away them every day, and the only place I've ever seen any attempt whatsoever to assure that the suitcase belonged to the person carrying it was in Atlanta, and that practice was stopped several years ago. You might think that other people want your luggage, but in point of fact they don't.
Your first class seat on DL from SLC to SFO actually came with all the snacks and alcoholic (or non-alcoholic) beverages you cared to consume. I'm surprised you weren't offered more, as my domestic first class trips on DL generally involve a level of service that borders on stalking, but next time all you need to do is ask.
As for charging for meals on TATL flights, so far that's only on a very few short eastbound, night flights from the east coast. Were it up to me all hot food service would be suspended on these flights, as the food is dreadful (yes, including European carriers) and the smell makes me want to jump from the plane.
Your first class seat on DL from SLC to SFO actually came with all the snacks and alcoholic (or non-alcoholic) beverages you cared to consume. I'm surprised you weren't offered more, as my domestic first class trips on DL generally involve a level of service that borders on stalking, but next time all you need to do is ask.
As for charging for meals on TATL flights, so far that's only on a very few short eastbound, night flights from the east coast. Were it up to me all hot food service would be suspended on these flights, as the food is dreadful (yes, including European carriers) and the smell makes me want to jump from the plane.
Sep 6th, 2008, 01:32 PM
#30
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<i>As for charging for meals on TATL flights, so far that's only on a very few short eastbound, night flights from the east coast. </i>
United has backtracked on this and will not be charging for meals on TATL flights. At least for now...
United has backtracked on this and will not be charging for meals on TATL flights. At least for now...
Sep 6th, 2008, 02:17 PM
#31
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Paulchili
I guess the term PATHETIC was firstly used by HariS to express a disappointment for a low quality of service from carriers where you normally would expect a bit more. Nothing to do with safety issues. Of course there are hundreds of carriers in worst conditions than us carriers around the world !
Therese
Next time I will ask but none in first class on that flight was offered more than peanuts! No snacks, no alcoholics !
I guess the term PATHETIC was firstly used by HariS to express a disappointment for a low quality of service from carriers where you normally would expect a bit more. Nothing to do with safety issues. Of course there are hundreds of carriers in worst conditions than us carriers around the world !
Therese
Next time I will ask but none in first class on that flight was offered more than peanuts! No snacks, no alcoholics !
Sep 6th, 2008, 02:50 PM
#33
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I think most of us will agree that flying today leaves much to be desired everywhere, not just US.
I only object to these sweeping statements about airlines EVERYWHERE being better than in US. Most people will agree that the major Asian airlines offer superior service when compared to anyone.
Qantas is unique as it virtually owns Australia, essentially without competition.
I would never say that airlines in South America or Africa are superior to US airlines (overall). That leaves US vs EU.
I think it’s “pick ‘em” – depends on individual airline, routes, person’s preferences, one's priorities, rewards, etc. In other words, it is VERY subjective an not objective. Speaking for myself, I am not moving to EU for airlines or any other reason. I have had enough unpleasant flying experiences in both EU and US to say one is clearly better than the other.
I only object to these sweeping statements about airlines EVERYWHERE being better than in US. Most people will agree that the major Asian airlines offer superior service when compared to anyone.
Qantas is unique as it virtually owns Australia, essentially without competition.
I would never say that airlines in South America or Africa are superior to US airlines (overall). That leaves US vs EU.
I think it’s “pick ‘em” – depends on individual airline, routes, person’s preferences, one's priorities, rewards, etc. In other words, it is VERY subjective an not objective. Speaking for myself, I am not moving to EU for airlines or any other reason. I have had enough unpleasant flying experiences in both EU and US to say one is clearly better than the other.
Sep 7th, 2008, 01:40 AM
#34
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I get your point
I have experienced a general decrease in terms of quality level since some years for many airlines, as you say, not only US carriers. Low cost carriers, tough competition, reduced rates (flying today costs less than the half of 20 years ago !!), need to save money everywhere with outsourcing jobs to call centers or third parties etc etc.. had for sure a geat impact on quality.
I have experienced a general decrease in terms of quality level since some years for many airlines, as you say, not only US carriers. Low cost carriers, tough competition, reduced rates (flying today costs less than the half of 20 years ago !!), need to save money everywhere with outsourcing jobs to call centers or third parties etc etc.. had for sure a geat impact on quality.
Sep 8th, 2008, 03:21 PM
#38
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Deregulation, extreme competition, and rising costs are responsible for the poor experience of air travel today. The flip side is that it is cheaper than it has ever been before. But you get what you pay for, so dirt-cheap fares means extremely poor service.
One wonders just how far this can eventually go before airlines go under completely or a backlash or revolution in the industry occurs. Perhaps regulation will one day return.
It's notable that rail travel in the USA has never returned to the glory days of old.
One wonders just how far this can eventually go before airlines go under completely or a backlash or revolution in the industry occurs. Perhaps regulation will one day return.
It's notable that rail travel in the USA has never returned to the glory days of old.
Sep 8th, 2008, 05:28 PM
#39
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5alive - I realize there are airlines that don't charge for checked bags (yet), including Southwest. I was referring to Continental, the airline I believe rkkwan regularly uses. (Continental announced their fee on the first checked bag the day after rrkwan posted.)
<i>Author: 5alive
Date: 09/07/2008, 11:32 pm
luv2cthings--I did not pay for any checked bags on the flight I took last week on Alaskan. We are not elite.
Rkkwan is correct on that point.</i>
<i>Author: 5alive
Date: 09/07/2008, 11:32 pm
luv2cthings--I did not pay for any checked bags on the flight I took last week on Alaskan. We are not elite.
Rkkwan is correct on that point.</i>
