JulieAgain

A lot cheaper than Biz Bed (the actual business class I assume), & cheaper than business class on BMI - we just can't take those coach seats any more! Looking for a price of about $2500 or less for business from NYC to London or to Rome or to Paris & we have flexible dates around 1st of April to middle of April for about 2 weeks in Europe.

Anyone flown in or seen the Biz Seats? Are they like US domestic 1st class? If so, do they have about the same amount of leg room (that's our main concern & some kind of foot rest for raising our feet.

I believe the flight is actually on United. Does United have seats that are inbetween coach & business for the Biz Seat customers, or will we be placed in coach?

Thanks, Julie

rkkwan

OpenSkies is a wholly owned subsidiary of British Airways, with its own fleet of 757-200. Nothing to do with United.

On these planes are "Biz Bed" which are flat bed, and "Biz Seat", which are recliner seats in 2-2 seating, 52" pitch and 140-degree recline. So, they are better than domestic first class; more like international business class from about 10 years ago, before the introduction of angled lie-flats.

mztery

Rkkwan is right about open skies - nothing to do with United. With that much notice, though you should be able to pick up a Z fare - discounted Biz class purchased AT LEAST 60 days in advance -= from any one of several carriers. United for example has JFK-LHR in mid April for $2330

SuzChicago

Just flew Open Skies in June and loved it. Limited geographic service. Flights from U.S. are from Dulles or Newark and it flies only into Paris Orly.

We had Biz Seat, not Biz Bed. I looked around to find something that was comparable in price and NO ONE could match our RT of $1450 per ticket. You can check 3 bags at no cost.

Great deal of space between seat rows; food was really good for airline food; wine selection was top-notch. Everyone receives their own entertainment systems for movies, video games, music, etc. Saw a number of movies I had wanted to see, and you can turn them off and on at will.

You are able to use lounge facilities in Newark and Orly. Newark was okay space -- looked like it had been jerry-rigged into a corner; but food, drink and service were good. The Orly Lounge was a dump and almost nothing was available -- dirty dishes everywhere.

The cabin crew out of Newark were great. Flight's captain walked down the aisle and introduced himself to passengers. Out of Orly, a little less friendly, but still pleasant.

Quite frankly, I can't imagine doing better for the price. I will fly Open Skies whenever I go to Europe if it makes geographic sense in terms of final destination.

rkkwan

I agree. $1,450 R/T is a very good fare for this service.

mztery

it all depends if oyu want miles for your trip. (the golden handcuffs of mileage /airline status )

JulieAgain

Thank you so much everyone. Looks like OpenSkies is a good choice for us.

SuzChicago, thanks for your first hand review - very helpful. Didn't expect that we can use the lounge. Do we get to use the "first class" fast line for security - that's the part I like?

Is Orly the main & closer Paris airport? I've read there is an airport further away.

Which is the better airport to fly out of - Dulles or Newark?

I got my airlines confused in my original post. I think it is AirEuropa that uses United codeshare. I was checking them out too.

Thanks again, Julie

rkkwan

Orly is the older airport of Paris. Still quite busy and is a little bit closer to Paris than Charles de Gaulle (CDG), the main hub for Air France.

Dulles is in Virginia, outside Washington, DC. If you're in NYC, you'll be going to Newark.

JulieAgain

Thanks, rkkwan. Do you have an opinion/any info on which is the best airport - Dulles or Newark?

rkkwan

Which ever is easier for you to get to.

SuzChicago

Julie -- Newark is a bit of a dump. Dulles requires that you get on a bus/people mover, so if you are running late that can be problematic.

In terms of security -- yes you do go through the priority line with Open Skies. Both sides, we walked in and went straight through with less than a 5 minute wait.

Orly is closer to central Paris than DeGaulle. We went through passport control and got luggage within 45 minutes of arriving and the flight arrived about half an hour early. No wait whatsoever for a cab; there was also a tourist office at Orly where I purchased metro passes and Museum passes.

JulieAgain

Thanks so much, SuzChicago. You've been so helpful. I think we will prefer Newark - dump over bus! That's good, because it is a little cheaper of the two.

Julie

julia1

BA also offers a Business-only service from JFK to London City Airport. Just a quick check brought up $2600 for round-trip mid-week early April. Includes dinner in lounge before flight if you want, sleeper service with lie-flat seat/bed, check-in 15 minutes before the flight, onboard text and internet.

SuzChicago

Julie -- Enjoy your trip! Suz

YMOusley

I agree with the previous commenters about the quality of the flight - definitely comparable to what you'd find with a major airline.

What's not comparable is customer service. The check-in gate at Orly is obscured by a magazine stand, and there's no permanent signage for the airline, which makes it difficult to find. I ended up being sent to the other airport terminal and back again, and ended up missing check in by about 20 minutes.

The result? Not standby on the next flight, like a major airline would have done, but endless phone calls and complete unwillingness to offer anything besides a new, full priced ticket. I go into more detail, but the one thing you do sacrifice in the lowered cost is knowing that you won't be stranded if anything unplanned happens.

I have a more detailed review on my blog, but in short, it may be worth a few hundred dollars in advance to get a biz seat with a major carrier, otherwise it could be thousands at a later date if for any reason at all you have problems at the airport.

http://www.signature9.com/travel/ope...ow-i-lost-1600

My strong recommendation would be to go for a fare with a major. With 60 days advance, you should be able to find a fare that's only a few hundred dollars more, with a more permanent structure that would ensure you're not left stranded or broke if anything happens.

YMOusley

Also, just so you know, none of the people at the desk are actual employees of OpenSkies, but a contracted 3rd party company without the authority/willingness/ability to do anything to resolve any problems that arise. Customer service is handled only by phone - even at the airport, and it seems to always be a single representative who always refuses to put you in touch with a manager or supervisor at all.

I booked my reservation through the US office, but when you try to call them from France (as suggested by the one phone representative in France)it automatically redirects to the French center, no matter what number you call. The French office also offers no connection/transfer to the US office.

I obviously have a bias, having had to spend the money I'd set aside for accommodations on a full-priced, new ticket. It was a huge inconvenience, but at least I had that - and fortunately, friends with couches in New York. If I had nothing, I would have been completely stuck in Paris.

I hope that nothing goes wrong for you, but if it does, know that those great fares are masking a complete lack of customer service and can easily leave you in the lurch.

SuzChicago

I agree with YMOusley that the check-in gate at Orly is not easy to see as it is behind a magazine kiosk, but Open Skies tells you where to go on its website and it's exactly where they say it is. I just used those instructions and it was no problem to actually find it -- took less than 2 minutes for me. There were also numerous signs above the check-in kiosks indicating it was Open Skies and since their logo is purple, it's not hard to find. I've got to say this story doesn't add up as you can check-in 2 -1/2 hours before the flight and the check-in closes 50 minutes before the flight's departure. If you don't make the check-in, why insist the airline move you at their cost to another airline?

YMOusley

Hi SuzChicago, I was a bit delayed getting to the airport, so I was there about an hour before the flight. Going to the other end of Orly South, then to Orly West at the suggestion of someone who didn't know where the gate was, then back to Orly South ate up a chunk of that time. I missed check-in by about 20 minutes, not the flight. The plane was still at the gate by the time I got there, and even by the time someone told me to call the call center, the plane still hadn't taken off. I wasn't asking to be moved to another airline, but most of the major airlines I've flown with wouldn't force you to spend $1600 for a 20 minute delay. Not when you're at the airport, at the gate. I only wanted standby on the next available flight, or at the least a change fee that wouldn't have taken all of my money for accommodations. If anything goes wrong - a taxi that doesn't arrive when scheduled, an accident or heavy traffic on the road to the airport, anything, and you don't have any money for a new ticket, you'd be completely and totally stranded. Personally, I'll pay the extra money for a major airline in the future to know that that won't happen.

Perhaps something's changed since the last time you've flown, but even when I did get on the flight the next day, purple flowers on the desk were the only things that I saw at the gates. There were no signs above the desk. I took a photo standing in front of the check-in desk, and there are no signs hanging behind the desk either, only a relatively small logo on the monitor, which is obscured by the magazine shop and Air Algerie help desk when you look at it from the entrance. Employees are dressed in navy, with the occasional red and blue scarf - not anything in purple or gray.

I'm glad you were able to find the desk without problems, and on my second trip, I knew exactly where to go. But clear signs at the airport when the desk is in an out of the way location isn't asking that much. A few purple and gray signs near the magazine store to indicate that check-in is behind it, or a sign behind the check-in desk, or a purple and gray scarf on an employee isn't an unreasonable expectation.

SuzChicago

YMOusley -- I personally can't imagine getting to the airport 1 hour before the departure for an international flight. Especially if you don't know your way around the airport. The Open Skies website makes it quite clear that check-in closes 50 minutes before the flight departs, so you left yourself only 10 minutes knowing they aren't a carrier with numerous flights in and out.

Once the front check-in is over, they do take the signage down as another airline uses the check-in kiosks. Once you checked in, you had to go through security and then yet another final security/passport check before boarding the flight at the gate. All of that does take time and they have limited personnel.

I think it comes down to the type of traveler you are. If you tend to run late, don't read the check-in instructions like a bible, and need the type of wiggle room a major carrier can give you, then Open Skies is not the right choice. If you are anal retentive about being on time (as I am -- and that's not always a good thing!!) you can't beat the price and comfort level of Open Skies. However, even a major carrier might have told you that by their rules you were a no show and they owe you nothing. If there is one business with almost no customer service flexibility, it is the airline industry! Best of luck in the future!

YMOusley

SuzChicago - I'm not upset because I couldn't make the flight I was scheduled for. I don't expect the plane to be held or anything else that would delay other passengers.

I arrived without a lot of time for wiggle room, and the lack of signage didn't help. Could things have been different if I'd had an extra hour or so to find the desk? Sure.

But, I didn't and it did contribute (not the only reason, but part of it) to me missing check-in. Regardless of that, most major airlines have an agent actually at the check-in who can waitlist you for standby, and if you're standing there in front of them I've never had the experience that they don't do that.

I've traveled on some flights where I've been 3 hours early, I've traveled on others where I've been late. The times when I've been late, I've never, ever experienced having to buy a completely new ticket when I was standing there at the airline check-in.

Most people don't plan on missing their flights, but regardless of reasons it happens, and forcing someone who misses their flight, but is at the airport to spend thousands of dollars on a new ticket rather than just placing them on standby? That's ridiculous to me, and frankly, every day I wake up on someone's couch it ticks me off even more.

Even if you're great on time, what happens to the person who encounters a road accident on the way to the airport (which is not the responsibility of the airline) or the person who has a health problem (not their responsibility) or is late for whatever unexpected reason? If you don't have thousands of dollars for a last minute ticket, you'd be completely and utterly stranded. Especially if it's towards the end of a trip, rather than the beginning that money at whatever cost attitude could easily mean nowhere to go for a traveler.