Need to know which airlines have true flatbed seats in business
 

We will be flying West Coast of USA to Amsterdam to Istanbul, back to New York, and then back to the West Coast. We are thinking of going business class in at least one direction if we can either upgrade, or pay with cash & miles, or use miles (either SFO to AMS, or Istanbul to New York).

Can anyone advise which airlines/planes have true flatbed seats on the San Francisco-AMS portion of our trip, and on the IST-NYC portion? We've flown before in the seats that merely tilt and in the seats that are something like 170 degrees, and they're both okay for sitting/eating/reading, but very uncomfortable for sleeping.

Thanks for your help.

To AMS:

- There are no flat-bed biz seats flying directly into AMS. You will have to connect.
- The longest distance you will be able to travel with a flat bed would be to take either BA or Virgin Atlantic nonstop to Heathrow and connect to AMS.

From IST:

- Turkish Airlines has flat beds on some of their flights. Look for the 777-300 (77W). The A330s do not have flat beds.
- Depending when you purchase, you might want to look at Delta. They are adding more and more flat beds to their fleet and this may become a flat bed route in the near future. For now, though, you are not guaranteed a flat bed on Delta.

IST-EWR is flat-bed on UA newly converted 763. If you decide to do UA for the whole trip, IAH-AMS is also flat-bed on 764 or ORD-AMS is on 3-class 763 with flat-bed in both F and C. EWR-AMS is also flat-bed on the 752; but very few pmCO 752 with flat-bed now on SFO-EWR for the transcon.

That is very very helpful. Thank you both so much.

Followup questions please, because our routing has changed. We are now planning to go to NY (actually upstate) first, and fly from there to Istanbul, then back via Amsterdam (where we'll spend a week).

The same question applies -- who has true flat-bed seats from the eastern part of the USA (we'd have to go via some city other than the one we'll be in -- Detroit, NYC, DC, Boston, PHL, ATL?) to Istanbul?

Are there any non-stop flights to Istanbul?

We have lots of miles United, US Air, Delta and BA, and we really only "need" business on the flight TO Istanbul. We don't care how tired we are when we get home :-)

<i>The same question applies -- who has true flat-bed seats from the eastern part of the USA (we'd have to go via some city other than the one we'll be in -- Detroit, NYC, DC, Boston, PHL, ATL?) to Istanbul? </i>

Turkish Airlines has flat beds from JFK to Istanbul. As before, look for the 777s, as the A330s do not have flat beds.

Also, United has flat beds from Newark to Istanbul on their 767-300s.

Delta flies from JFK to Istanbul as well, but does not offer guaranteed flat beds at this point.

Back from Amsterdam, you can either connect through London with BA or Virgin, or United to Newark, Chicago, or Houston.

I like the biz seats of UA's 3-class 767. DH and I go for the two seats in the middle (it's a 2-2-2 config) so no one has to climb or anyone or be climbed over! All of those center seats are aisle seats. And yes, they are true lie-flat seats.

I've flown Virgin Upper Class a number of times, the flat beds are really nice. The crew will make up the bed for you whenever you want it and give you a sleeper suit. The configuration is different to any other business class I've been on, all of the seats are at an angle. So they are not 2-2-2 etc, they are in one row all along the window and two rows in the middle. Don't think I described that well, a seat map would be better to look at.

There's a small ottoman in front of the seat to put your feet up if the bed is not reclined. I believe all the aircraft share the same config and all have a bar area. The sides are quite deep so there is plenty of privacy from the next seat.

The table is quite large and slides up and out, which means you can recline and watch the IFE. Because there is no first class, upper class is right at the front of the aircraft where first would usually be.

Also the Club House at LHR is very stylish. I think the one at JFK is also very nice but haven't been to that one.

Odin, just checking - is that Virgin Atlantic or Virgin America?

The problem with Virgin Atlantic or British Airways to Istanbul is that you will end up in Euro-style "business class" for the flight from London to Istanbul. That means you will be sitting in what is really a coach seat for 4 hours.

For the return from Amsterdam, Virgin or BA would be okay, since the flight from AMS to LHR is so short.

Really a coach seat, or really an old-fashioned business class seat (recliner with footrest)? I'm okay with that for 4 hours. Actually, I'm okay with coach for 4 hours, but want to be able to sleep on the longer portion of the trip, which I can't do in a "real" coach seat.

<i>Really a coach seat</i>

Pretty much. On BA, they kind of convert the coach seats to make them marginally wider. Imagine a US domestic first class seat, take away legroom, and make it less comfortable. The sad thing is that BA probably has the "best" product in Europe. Most of the other European carriers simply block the middle seat and call it "business class".

<i>Actually, I'm okay with coach for 4 hours, but want to be able to sleep on the longer portion of the trip, which I can't do in a "real" coach seat.</i>

Bear in mind that a flight from the East Coast to the UK is quite short - JFK-LHR is scheduled at 7 hours or less and can entail quite a bit less time in the air.

The larger point is that flying on one of the nonstop options to Istanbul would provide a much better experience than connecting through Heathrow.

Yes, I have to remember we're not going straight from San Francisco (nothing like our trip from San Francisco-Portland-Frankfurt-Cairo, all 28 hours of it, including an unexpected 6-hour layover in Frankfurt).

I was referring to Virgin Atlantic.

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/gb/en...ass-suite.html

They fly the transatlantic route but not the LHR-IST portion, guess that would be a code-share carrier? BA would fly the whole route via London.
On BA business class within Europe, the seats are as TG described although they are leather covered, they are a kind of economy class seat with a narrow section between the two seats so no-one sits in the middle seat. They used to (not sure if this is still the case) be able to divide the economy and business class cabin with a curtain depending on the loads rather than having properly divided cabin classes as you do on the longhaul flights. It's still nice to travel business class even if it's not as good as the transatlantic service.