Lufthansa buying Swiss?
Aug 18th, 2003, 09:07 AM
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Lufthansa buying Swiss?
Some reports on TV today that Lufthansa might make a bid for Swiss. Hmmm...I'm very fond of the service at Swiss...think it would deteriorate with Lufthansa running the airline?
Aug 19th, 2003, 07:06 AM
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Thanks. However, I still wonder if there are some hush hush negotiations underway. I've seen more than one incident when company A strongly denied it was in purchase talks with company B...then bought it a few months after the rumors dissipated. (I worked at one Euro pharma company that denied up, down and sideways that it was in merger talks with another company...and did the deal anyway.)
Aug 19th, 2003, 07:18 AM
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Aug 19th, 2003, 07:31 AM
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No, it doesn't!...since the Swiss spokesman declined to comment. I think the service at Swiss would suffer from being acquired by Lufthansa...but better that than going down the tubes. I can't imagine BA or AMR buying it...both of them are in dire straits themselves...
(nightmare scenario: profitable but horrible service Ryanair buying Swiss...ugh!)
(nightmare scenario: profitable but horrible service Ryanair buying Swiss...ugh!)
Aug 19th, 2003, 07:59 AM
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If you read the article again, you will find that nobody is trying to buy anybody. If the deals happen, it will become a partnership, not ownership.
Joining OneWorld or StarAlliance will give Swiss the needed business infusion without giving up it's own identity.
Is there a guarantee that Swiss or any other airline won't go under? Of course not. Alliances do help, with codesharing, wider audiance, etc.., so I'm not sure what you're looking for, but nobody will give you a guarantee. You would look silly looking for one.
Joining OneWorld or StarAlliance will give Swiss the needed business infusion without giving up it's own identity.
Is there a guarantee that Swiss or any other airline won't go under? Of course not. Alliances do help, with codesharing, wider audiance, etc.., so I'm not sure what you're looking for, but nobody will give you a guarantee. You would look silly looking for one.
Aug 19th, 2003, 10:18 AM
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I guess we will have to wait till the end of August for the official announcment. These corporate mergers, aqusitions, alliances happen all the time, and there is not much anybody can do. If I were you I would not loose too much sleep over it.
Whatever happens, it will be up to you to decide if you want to stay with your favorite airline, and if not, I'm sure there are others that will be happy to take you on as a customer.
Whatever happens, it will be up to you to decide if you want to stay with your favorite airline, and if not, I'm sure there are others that will be happy to take you on as a customer.
Aug 29th, 2003, 02:54 PM
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They are however cutting back in a rather drastic manner many long haul flights, they have just cancelled a further 32 flights for Sep/Oct apparently due to late arrival of new airfract, pilot shortage and training!
They are mainly Africa and Asia but they include some LAX flights.
It is amazing that although they (original Swissair )obviously had some of the highest overheads, mainly paying Swiss salary levels, for many years they offered amongst the cheapest fares, which I guess was their main problem.
For anyone who like to keep a check on airlines there is a very good site,
http://www.justplanes.com, click on the 'Lates News' heading, it's worth looking at if you are interested in flights and airlines.
They are mainly Africa and Asia but they include some LAX flights.
It is amazing that although they (original Swissair )obviously had some of the highest overheads, mainly paying Swiss salary levels, for many years they offered amongst the cheapest fares, which I guess was their main problem.
For anyone who like to keep a check on airlines there is a very good site,
http://www.justplanes.com, click on the 'Lates News' heading, it's worth looking at if you are interested in flights and airlines.
Aug 30th, 2003, 01:54 PM
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Swiss has an unsustainable cash drain and needs or they will be out of business by this time next year.
They're trying to get another airline to invest or even take them over, but I doubt they'll be successful. Use your Travel Club miles NOW!
Hope this helps,
Andre
They're trying to get another airline to invest or even take them over, but I doubt they'll be successful. Use your Travel Club miles NOW!
Hope this helps,
Andre
Sep 2nd, 2003, 04:49 AM
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BTilke
Why would Ryanair want to buy Swiss? Ryanair has achieved substantial growth organically. OK it did buy Buzz recently I will admit, but acquisitions are not key to Ryanair's success.
Swiss operates long and short haul unlike Ryanair and flies in and out of major airports (ie, Zurich, Geneva, JFK, LHR, CDG, etc) whilst Ryanair flies to bus station type airports miles from city centres. Swiss has a reputation for quality whilst Ryanair has a reputatiun for no frills.
Acquisition of Swiss by Ryanair would makes even less sense that AOL's acquisition of Time Warner. I would not bother with a career in M&A...
Why would Ryanair want to buy Swiss? Ryanair has achieved substantial growth organically. OK it did buy Buzz recently I will admit, but acquisitions are not key to Ryanair's success.
Swiss operates long and short haul unlike Ryanair and flies in and out of major airports (ie, Zurich, Geneva, JFK, LHR, CDG, etc) whilst Ryanair flies to bus station type airports miles from city centres. Swiss has a reputation for quality whilst Ryanair has a reputatiun for no frills.
Acquisition of Swiss by Ryanair would makes even less sense that AOL's acquisition of Time Warner. I would not bother with a career in M&A...
Sep 9th, 2003, 12:47 AM
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It looks like Lufthansa will make a bid for Swiss after all. Lufthansa is looking for 500 million Swiss franc ($351.9 million) injection of fresh capital from Swiss shareholders. If that happens Lufthansa will make an official bid within days. If succesful, it will integrate Swiss to it's network, but keep the Swiss identity and Zurich hub.
Swiss is still considering joining the OneWorld Alliance as the other option.
Swiss is still considering joining the OneWorld Alliance as the other option.
Sep 9th, 2003, 01:58 AM
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Ah Hah!! I knew something was up! Thanks AAFrequentFlyer for the update. Hopefully the Swiss quality of service will continue even if Lufthansa makes the deal.
As for UKUKUK, reread my post. A Ryanair/Swiss deal was just an ironic "nightmare" scenario not a "real world" scenario...You can go back to your beer binge in Prague now.
As for UKUKUK, reread my post. A Ryanair/Swiss deal was just an ironic "nightmare" scenario not a "real world" scenario...You can go back to your beer binge in Prague now.
Sep 9th, 2003, 02:20 AM
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I understand that the Swiss government and UBS,a swiis bank control more than 50% of the current shares in Swiss. They certainly would look for a bail out of the Swiss mess.
As for service, I fly regularly with Lufthtansa and can not complain about their aircraft, most less than 5 years old, frequent service to major cities and a good alliance. The service is just as good as Swiss.
With the major changes to the swiss schedule( severe deletions of service to many cities and delay or cancellation of new aircraft purchases)that still do not help the bottom line, some other measure -merger or sale is preferred to bankruptcy.
If Lufthansa is the choice to do this rescue ,the stock market seems to not like it as Lufthansa stock has seen a major drop after several months of positive gains.
Let us see how long the hubs remain in Switzerland with Frankfurt, Munich and Vienna nearby.
I would prefer to see Swiss acquired or become a partner of Lufthansa than slip into the airline cemetery.
Remember British Air is loaded with debt, while Lufthansa has a very positive debt position for an airline.
As for service, I fly regularly with Lufthtansa and can not complain about their aircraft, most less than 5 years old, frequent service to major cities and a good alliance. The service is just as good as Swiss.
With the major changes to the swiss schedule( severe deletions of service to many cities and delay or cancellation of new aircraft purchases)that still do not help the bottom line, some other measure -merger or sale is preferred to bankruptcy.
If Lufthansa is the choice to do this rescue ,the stock market seems to not like it as Lufthansa stock has seen a major drop after several months of positive gains.
Let us see how long the hubs remain in Switzerland with Frankfurt, Munich and Vienna nearby.
I would prefer to see Swiss acquired or become a partner of Lufthansa than slip into the airline cemetery.
Remember British Air is loaded with debt, while Lufthansa has a very positive debt position for an airline.
Sep 9th, 2003, 03:31 AM
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Ironic?
After having ruled out British Airways and AMR due to being in "dire straits" you mention that Ryanair is "profitable but horrible service..."
My you can write clearly and coherently and your sense of humour is about as funny as Jay Lenos.
After having ruled out British Airways and AMR due to being in "dire straits" you mention that Ryanair is "profitable but horrible service..."
My you can write clearly and coherently and your sense of humour is about as funny as Jay Lenos.
Sep 9th, 2003, 06:58 AM
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To bring this thread back to its initial subject, one should note that LH has yet to make a formal offer - however IF it is indeed prepared to take Swiss over entirely (after a cash injection of 500 million CHF) and pay for the airline with its own shares, the deal is actually quite likely to go through IMO.
However, it could also be a maneuver to give Swiss some hope that they've found a saviour, so that they break off talks with BA/OneWorld, only to be left in the lurch by Lufthansa as well... This is what Delta did to PanAm when they were going bust and it worked (for Delta
).
Don't forget that if Swiss goes bust, Lufthansa should pick up a large share of the swiss air travel market anyway.
Andre
However, it could also be a maneuver to give Swiss some hope that they've found a saviour, so that they break off talks with BA/OneWorld, only to be left in the lurch by Lufthansa as well... This is what Delta did to PanAm when they were going bust and it worked (for Delta
). Don't forget that if Swiss goes bust, Lufthansa should pick up a large share of the swiss air travel market anyway.
Andre
Sep 9th, 2003, 07:06 AM
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Thanks, Andre. It would be a shame for Swiss to go under. We have had good experiences with them. We were also sorry to see Sabena go--although it had a horrid reputation, in the couple of years before its demise, the new planes and the friendly staff made our flights with them quite pleasant. The also offered some great deals--like $1200 for a round trip BRU/NYC business class fare in summer 2001.
