KLM / Delta
 

Has anyone a recent report on Delta? We splurged (for us) and bought tickets on KLM and were looking forward to it, but found out Orbitz (or KLM, not sure who) Bait and Switched by calling the flights KLM when they were really Delta. We are VERY unhappy but stuck. Can anyone offer any encouragement with Delta international flights? Thanks! We are flying from Atlanta to Cologne/Bonn and from Heathrow back to Atlanta.

They are code share partners. http://www.delta.com/planning_reserv...ture/index.jsp

Always check your seat out on www.seatguru.com to make sure you're not stuck in a bad seat or a wide row.

1. Codesharing has been around for at least 15 years.

2. While they may put it in small prints, almost all booking sites will state your flights as "Operated by Delta Air Lines". I just checked on Orbitz, and sure they did so too. It's hardly bait and switch.

3. There are also other clues that indicate your flight is not on KLM:

a. One is flight number. DL codeshares are KL61xx. Few airlines use flight numbers higher than 2xxx for their own flights. Most international airlines use only 3-digit numbers for their own.

b. KLM is Royal Dutch and they are based and hubbed in Amsterdam. Unless you're flying to/through/from AMS, you won't be flying them.

4. You are not going to Amsterdam, so a non-stop on DL is preferred over flying KL anyways. Plus, KL uses mostly 777-300 with tight 10-abreast seating in economy; or ancient 747-400 with no personal entertainment. DL actually provide better hard product than KL in economy over the Atlantic.

We are flying through Amsterdam and change planes in Amsterdam-Schiphol Airport. "Clues" that our flight Was KLM was that Orbitz advertised it as such. Example: "KLM Royal Dutch Airlines ####" It may have said under there somewhere operated by Delta airlines, but to ppl who don't fly that often, When the logo and BIG print says ONE thing they know full well that's why buyers think and that's why they didn't call it DELTA. It had nothing to do with KLM in the end. It wasn't until we booked that Delta started showing up more.

My experience is that Delta (and other US airlines) skimp on the little extras that make transoceanic flights in coach on most European and Asian airlines more tolerable. For example, no complimentary eye shades for coach passengers on Delta, but KLM does have them (if you ask).

The food isn't quite as good on Delta as on KLM, either. It isn't awful, at least in my opinion, just not as good.

THAT SAID—I flew Delta from Boston to Heathrow and back (albeit several months ago) and had a good experience over all. Both flights were only half full, or less, so there was plenty of room to stretch out (I had a middle row of 3 seats to myself on a 767 on the way over and was able to lie down across them, more or less). If you're going in the summer, though, that might not be the case.

Don't let the fact that you are flying Delta instead of KLM ruin your trip, though, or your anticipation of it. As rkkwan noted, the Orbitz website does clearly indicate that the transatlantic segments are operated by Delta. The font is gray instead of black, but it is the same size as all the other info in the fare box (so it is not even small print). Unless they have changed the design of their site since you booked, there isn't any deception involved.

The whole point of code sharing is to put your logo and flight number on some other airline's flight!!!

Anyways, like it or not, it's not going to be changed. Authorities on both sides of the Atlantic and around the globe has allowed it for, as I said, over 15 years. It's up to the consumer to educate oneself.

But here are the encouragements. You are VERY LUCKY to have picked one of the DL flights between ATL and AMS over the KL one. I don't know when you're flying, but looking at random data this summer, DL has 2 flights with A330 that are new, comfortable, with decent entertainment; and one flight with 767 that's also decent. In contrast, KL uses the ancient MD-11 with no seatback entertainment at all.

A few notes:

1) Delta really isn't that bad. I fly with them quite a bit over the pond (though rarely in coach anymore) and think that they offer a decent service and comfort level.

2) The A330's Delta flies to and from Amsterdam are pretty nice, with decent (though not exceptional) AVOD and a pretty comfortable 2-4-2 arrangement. Depending upon which 767 model flies the route, you may or may not have AVOD, but I think the 767 is the best long-haul plane in coach, due to the 2-3-2 seating setup.

3) For the return flight from Heathrow, you again get the 2-3-2 of the 767, but will also have AVOD. Too bad you aren't in biz, as the seats up there are very nice flat beds that are far ahead of what KLM offers. My wife prefers them to BA's biz seats.

4) Airplane food is airplane food. I'd eat at the airport, particularly when leaving from Atlanta. If you have time, One Flew South is quite nice. Paschal's is also good.

5) I find KLM to be thoroughly ordinary. Their coach cabins tend toward the more cramped and the service is efficient, but rarely special and not usually overly friendly. On the plus side, Ray is a little out of date and the MD-11s (and 747s) have recently been updated with AVOD in all classes.

6) One final note is that it might be worth springing for the extra money to get Economy Comfort, which offers a much more civilized amount of legroom and free booze.

Oh, good that they've put in AVOD on those KL aircraft.

I fly out of Atlanta and book all my flights through Delta. Maybe it is the luck of the draw, but the KLM planes I have flown in have been older, more rundown and dirtierin coach than Delta planes on international flights.The food has been equally bad on KLM and Delta. Service has been about the same, neither good nor bad. The main advantage of KLM over Delta and its other major codeshare, Air France, is that in making connections to connecting flights you get to avoid CDG, Europe's most dysfunctional airport.

Thanks travelgourmet - Before I booked, I checked the planes thoroughly (yes, one and all, I did know the planes were Delta) and called the airline (KLM who did NOT bother to say, "Now,you KNOW we have nothing to do with your flight, RIGHT?" which is another reason I know they enjoy stringing people along. Code sharing - ptttoey!) to make sure of AVOD. I can't believe some airlines (US Air for ex) still use archaic shared video. I thought that went out with the dinosaurs!
If we get good up-to-date planes with good service, I will be happy. That's all I want!

<i>KLM who did NOT bother to say, "Now,you KNOW we have nothing to do with your flight, RIGHT?</i>

KLM, Air France, and Delta operate their transatlantic flights as a joint venture, meaning they share the costs and revenues. As part of this, if you called a US number, you actually called Delta, and they are responsible for your flight. The opposite would be true if you called a European number, in which case it would be KLM answering the phone, even if you booked the flight with Delta and called a "Delta" number.

<i>you get to avoid CDG, Europe's most dysfunctional airport</i>

CDG isn't so bad if you know what you are doing. They have plenty of lounges, the security lines are well-managed, and T2E has some decent shopping. The food sucks, but the food sucks at AMS, too.

I like AMS, but the lines have been getting longer and the holding pen setup is a PITA.

As with everything else in the world today, we want instantaneous gratification.

The link below is for pictures of economy flight meals by airline.

http://www.airlinemeals.net/browseme...p?type=economy

If you noodle around a bit, you can also find Biz and First class meals.

To Travelgourmet, I do know what I am doing at CDG: Dealing with passport control and security personnel who don't give a dam n about anybody but themselves. Where a routine two-hour connection is missed because only two passport control agents out of five are actually checking passports and they are more concerned about flirting with every pretty girl in line than actually checking passports. Also. where lines wrap around the interior of the building and go on forever on another occasion because there are not enough passport control agents to do the job. This is off subject, but I definitely know what I am doing -- I am trying my best to route around CDG.

vintage 40s, I'm now confused. In your original post you said "We splurged (for us) and bought tickets on KLM and were looking forward to it, but found out Orbitz (or KLM, not sure who) Bait and Switched by calling the flights KLM when they were really Delta. " and in your last post, "Before I booked, I checked the planes thoroughly (yes, one and all, I did know the planes were Delta)."

So if before you booked, you knew the planes were Delta, what was your "bait and switch" complaint about?

<<<Before I booked, I checked the planes thoroughly (yes, one and all, I did know the planes were Delta) and called the airline (KLM who did NOT bother to say, "Now,you KNOW we have nothing to do with your flight, RIGHT?" which is another reason I know they enjoy stringing people along. >>>

You knew the planes were Delta before you booked. How are you confused? You knew the planes were Delta's... you booked anyway. That's not bait and switch, that's giving you exactly what you purchased. Why should they be expected to tell you that your flight is actually operated by their partner airline? As far as they're concerned everything is one and the same and they should be able to assume that you knew what flights you booked or you'd ask before booking.


I recently flew Delta to AMS and KLM from there to Tanzania/Kenya, and back. There was no noticeable differences between Delta and KLM. The staff (in the plane or airport) were fantastic, the food was airplane food but entirely edible, the seats and space had no noticeable differences.

If you made reservations through Orbitz, it's possible they didn't post all info, or maybe you just missed it? Try a phony reservation without credit card info just to see what's posted on Orbitz, and this time read the fine print.

We too did that Delta/KLM combo with some flights operated by Delta, some by KLM. The difference is, KLM offers free wine :)

I find Delta to be a good airline, we flew to Europe and one-way from Dominican Republic, I don't remember anything negative, honestly! Would fly again in a heartbeat if the price goes down a little ;)

Dayenu--As both rkkwan and I posted, ATL-AMS flight listed as KLM (and showing the KLM logo) does have a notation underneath that indicates the flight is operated by Delta. The notation was pretty evident to me—text was the same size as the flight info and wasn't hidden away somewhere.

Agree that Delta usually does a good job.

Another difference that sets KLM apart is they offer free "help-yourself" snacks in the back galley during the flight. That was nice during a 12-hour flight AMS-CPT! ;)

And Delta does offer free wine with meals on their intercontinental flights.

>>>The food sucks, but the food sucks at AMS, too.<<<

Well now, AMS does have that nice champagne bar Bubbles and I haven't seen pickled herring at CDG.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mandyvision/5103793627/

Just to clarify something Dayenu said. Both Delta and KLM offer free wine an beer. KLM, however, also provides the hard stuff for free, while Delta charges for liquor.

For those who infer I can't read, of course I saw the small print Delta waaaaaaay at the bottom. I also saw the LARGE blue KLM and KLM FLIGHT NUMBER prominently displayed at the top. hmmm. Why didn't they just call it what it was... a Delta flight? KLM has NOTHING to do with it. Curious.
Permit me an analogy: movie poster with LARGE color photo of BRAD PITT "Starring Brad Pitt!" (then waaay at the bottom in small print, "Actually starring Joe McNobody"). Same principal. Both intending to deceive. If it's Delta, call it DELTA. That's all I'm saying.

So, now you're saying you know it's a Delta flight all alone and still decide to book it, right? Then there's nothing here we can help you. You should go waste your congressperson's time rather than ours.

vintage40s—What website did you use to book your tickets? It can't have been the one I looked at.

When I go to orbitz.com and put in random dates for an Atlanta—Cologne/Bonn itinerary, this is what I get:

http://www.orbitz.com/shop/home?type...Search+Flights

(Don't know if that link will work from here.)

The notation the first flight is operated by Delta is about half an inch below the flight itinerary. (You said "waaaaaaay at the bottom.") Half an inch is hardly "waaaaaaay at the bottom", so we can't have been looking at the same website.

The Delta notice has the same font size as the itinerary above it. (You said "I saw the small print Delta".) Unless you thought the main text was also "small print", again, we can't have been looking at the same website. Admittedly, the Delta text is in a lighter font, but it's not exactly invisible.

The KLM logo is smaller than the "Select" button that you would use to choose the flights and roughly the same size as the two flight numbers (one on top of the other) in the note about the codeshare, which is below the itinerary info. (You said " I also saw the LARGE blue KLM and KLM FLIGHT NUMBER".) On my monitor, the logo displays about a half-inch by a quarter-inch (not what I call "large").

The KLM logo is at the right-hand side of the listing. (You said "prominently displayed at the top".) The codeshare info is at the far left side of the listing, and because it is in a different color, my eye was drawn to it before I noticed the KLM logo.

Anyway, that's why I'm curious about what website you were using, because I, like many others here, can't figure out how the codeshare info was seemingly hidden from you. If you were using a different website or in another country that might explain it.

Plus, you said above "yes, one and all, I did know the planes were Delta", so I'm not sure why you thought KLM was operating them.

I suspect that the reason it was listed as KLM and not Delta had to do with pricing. We recently traveled from Denver to Lisbon, Porto to Denver on an American Airlines issued ticket that never had us on an American Airlines plane. (We actually didn't make the Porto to Denver part because of a Spanish strike). It was all code share.

Similar flights under BA or Iberia charged different rates. I don't pretend to understand how airlines determine what to charge or why different airlines charge different amounts for seats on the same aircraft. I have noticed for example that USAir sells tickets from EWR to DEN on United aircraft and charge less for them than United does.

We fly Delta most of the time and they are no worse than other carriers. With no offense intended, I think you're making a big deal out of something when there isn't one to be made. Have not flown KLM across the atlantic, but KLM planes in Europe were decidedly cramped compared to Delta.

Code sharing is much more complicated than one airline simply putting its own flight number on a partner airline's flight. There are many different arrangements between airlines for code shares which I won't go into here, but they involve pricing, seat allocation, restrictions, marketing and other factors. So the conditions of travel for the two or sometimes three airlines on a flight operated by one of them can be quite different. The most noticeable to the passenger is usually the price.

NoFlyZone on Apr 27, 12 at 4:58pm
And Delta does offer free wine with meals on their intercontinental flights.

WHAT???? Somebody give me their address, I'll make them to mail me whatever we supposed to drink on that flight to Copenhagen :))