How to get a first-class ticket on Air France/Delta?
Mar 31st, 2008, 08:23 AM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 637
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How to get a first-class ticket on Air France/Delta?
I'm planning on a trip to Paris next spring (2009), and would love to be able to travel first class. I'm getting more and more uncomfortable in coach, and have never been able to sleep on overnight flights.
Current full fare is app. $3000. On AF, I have only 2850 mileage points, but on Delta, my combined family points are about 49,000. I have a year to try and get more via credit card, or whatever means necessary.
Can someone please give me advice on the best way to acquire these points, as well as the ins and outs of upgrading a ticket? From the Delta upgrade chart, it looks like I could need anywhere from 50,000 - 250,000 for an upgrade!
Thanks in advance...
Current full fare is app. $3000. On AF, I have only 2850 mileage points, but on Delta, my combined family points are about 49,000. I have a year to try and get more via credit card, or whatever means necessary.
Can someone please give me advice on the best way to acquire these points, as well as the ins and outs of upgrading a ticket? From the Delta upgrade chart, it looks like I could need anywhere from 50,000 - 250,000 for an upgrade!
Thanks in advance...
Mar 31st, 2008, 08:48 AM
#2
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 23,073
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The basic is this: you need 25,000 Delta Skymiles from <b>one single account</b> to upgrade one discount coach DL ticket, <b>each way</b> to business class.
And that's only for select fares. Patty may be able to tell which fare classes are available. Or call Delta to find out.
I don't think you can use DL miles to upgrade on AF.
And on international flights, DL operates two class planes with coach and business. Some AF flights have first class, which is above business.
And that's only for select fares. Patty may be able to tell which fare classes are available. Or call Delta to find out.
I don't think you can use DL miles to upgrade on AF.
And on international flights, DL operates two class planes with coach and business. Some AF flights have first class, which is above business.
Mar 31st, 2008, 08:59 AM
#3
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First of all Delta has only 2 class service, coach and business. Air France has 3 class, coach, business and first, on some but not all routes.
I imagine you really mean business since you mentioned a $3000 fare. First would be much higher than that. And the $3000 is actually a discounted business fare with advance purchase, min/max stay, nonrefundable/change fees and other restrictions. Full fare business is again much higher.
Upgrading with Delta miles is available on Delta operated flights only and requires the purchase of a Y, B or M economy fare which can be significantly higher than the most discounted economy fares. To upgrade from a M fare from the US to Europe requires 25,000 miles each way and the availability of Z class to confirm the upgrade. You can call Delta to check Z availability or use a subscription service such as Expert Flyer. I wouldn't purchase a higher economy fare and waitlist for an upgrade in hopes of it clearing as you run the risk of flying in economy on a very expensive ticket.
Your other option is to get an award ticket in business. For award tickets you can use Delta and/or any of their partner airlines including Air France subject to award availability. This opens up a lot more possibility for redemption. Business class from the US to Europe is 90,000 miles roundtrip or 100,000 miles roundtrip if any overwater segment is on Continental or Northwest. You cannot use Delta miles to redeem first class on Air France, only business.
Finally, what you're seeing as 250,000 miles is the mileage requirement for Delta's Skychoice business class award from the US to Europe. Skychoice eliminates some capacity restrictions and is only available on Delta operated flights. I've never resorted to using Skychoice and have always been able to get something at the lower Skysaver level. Also be aware that Delta is planning to change to a 3 tier award system, so the old Skysaver/Skychoice levels may not apply soon.
To upgrade on Air France operated flights or redeem for Air France first class awards, you'll need to use Flying Blue miles.
Hope this helps.
I imagine you really mean business since you mentioned a $3000 fare. First would be much higher than that. And the $3000 is actually a discounted business fare with advance purchase, min/max stay, nonrefundable/change fees and other restrictions. Full fare business is again much higher.
Upgrading with Delta miles is available on Delta operated flights only and requires the purchase of a Y, B or M economy fare which can be significantly higher than the most discounted economy fares. To upgrade from a M fare from the US to Europe requires 25,000 miles each way and the availability of Z class to confirm the upgrade. You can call Delta to check Z availability or use a subscription service such as Expert Flyer. I wouldn't purchase a higher economy fare and waitlist for an upgrade in hopes of it clearing as you run the risk of flying in economy on a very expensive ticket.
Your other option is to get an award ticket in business. For award tickets you can use Delta and/or any of their partner airlines including Air France subject to award availability. This opens up a lot more possibility for redemption. Business class from the US to Europe is 90,000 miles roundtrip or 100,000 miles roundtrip if any overwater segment is on Continental or Northwest. You cannot use Delta miles to redeem first class on Air France, only business.
Finally, what you're seeing as 250,000 miles is the mileage requirement for Delta's Skychoice business class award from the US to Europe. Skychoice eliminates some capacity restrictions and is only available on Delta operated flights. I've never resorted to using Skychoice and have always been able to get something at the lower Skysaver level. Also be aware that Delta is planning to change to a 3 tier award system, so the old Skysaver/Skychoice levels may not apply soon.
To upgrade on Air France operated flights or redeem for Air France first class awards, you'll need to use Flying Blue miles.
Hope this helps.
Mar 31st, 2008, 09:27 AM
#4
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oops, I missed the part where you mentioned combined family points. As rkkwan mentioned, all of the miles for one award have to come from a single account. Upgrades are priced as one ways so 25,000 can come from one account and the other 25,000 from another account.
The Platinum Skymiles Amex gives a 20,000 bonus for first purchase plus 10,000 when you reach the $25,000 spend threshold and another 10,000 when you reach the $50,000 spend threshold for a possible 40,000 total in bonuses for the first year plus your regular 1 mile per $1 for spending. There are also usually some bonuses offered for adding additional cardholders. The annual fee for this card is $150 which is not normally waived the first year.
The Gold version of the Skymiles Amex usually comes with the first year's fee waived but the potential bonus may be smaller.
You can also apply for both personal and business versions of the same card. Amex business cards are meant for small businesses and you don't need a federal tax ID (other than you social security number).
You could also look into current offers for the Amex charge cards which participate in Membership Rewards as MR points are transferable to Delta.
From time to time, there may be better offers available. I would check the Delta and Amex forums at Flyertalk or www.freefrequentflyermiles.com.
Keep an eye out for Chase (or other banks) home equity line of credit offers if that's applicable to you. A few months back, you could get as much as 100,000 miles for a Chase HELOC but currently, it's capped at 25,000 which may not be worth the trouble.
One more thing, there's no guarantee that award or upgrade space will be available once you've earned all of these miles particularly if you're going to wait until this time next year to try for spring 2009 travel.
And frankly, with all of the changes going on with the Skymiles program right now, any award level you're targeting now is subject to change by the time you're ready to redeem (this can of course be said for any program but I feel is especially true for Delta currently).
Good luck!
The Platinum Skymiles Amex gives a 20,000 bonus for first purchase plus 10,000 when you reach the $25,000 spend threshold and another 10,000 when you reach the $50,000 spend threshold for a possible 40,000 total in bonuses for the first year plus your regular 1 mile per $1 for spending. There are also usually some bonuses offered for adding additional cardholders. The annual fee for this card is $150 which is not normally waived the first year.
The Gold version of the Skymiles Amex usually comes with the first year's fee waived but the potential bonus may be smaller.
You can also apply for both personal and business versions of the same card. Amex business cards are meant for small businesses and you don't need a federal tax ID (other than you social security number).
You could also look into current offers for the Amex charge cards which participate in Membership Rewards as MR points are transferable to Delta.
From time to time, there may be better offers available. I would check the Delta and Amex forums at Flyertalk or www.freefrequentflyermiles.com.
Keep an eye out for Chase (or other banks) home equity line of credit offers if that's applicable to you. A few months back, you could get as much as 100,000 miles for a Chase HELOC but currently, it's capped at 25,000 which may not be worth the trouble.
One more thing, there's no guarantee that award or upgrade space will be available once you've earned all of these miles particularly if you're going to wait until this time next year to try for spring 2009 travel.
And frankly, with all of the changes going on with the Skymiles program right now, any award level you're targeting now is subject to change by the time you're ready to redeem (this can of course be said for any program but I feel is especially true for Delta currently).
Good luck!
Mar 31st, 2008, 12:16 PM
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 637
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yes, thank you patty, you are amazing.
i'm still curious about the AF/Delta connection however. we fly out of PHL which has a non-stop codeshare flight between Delta and AF, though it is "operated" by AF. given that, should i somehow try to maximize my AF Flying Bleu points?
i was bumped to the front of the plane on AF during our last return flight, and seem to remember just first and then coach class, not business. though it was a year ago....
thanks again for all your help!
i'm still curious about the AF/Delta connection however. we fly out of PHL which has a non-stop codeshare flight between Delta and AF, though it is "operated" by AF. given that, should i somehow try to maximize my AF Flying Bleu points?
i was bumped to the front of the plane on AF during our last return flight, and seem to remember just first and then coach class, not business. though it was a year ago....
thanks again for all your help!
Mar 31st, 2008, 12:22 PM
#7
melissa19 the $3000 fare that you gave was for a full fare economy ticket, wasn't it? If you upgrade that then you will be in business class, not first class. You will be much more comfortable in business than in economy. Isn't that what you want?
If you are willing to spend $3000 for the ticket then it sounds like the discounted business ticket that Patty mentioned is what you want.
If you are willing to spend $3000 for the ticket then it sounds like the discounted business ticket that Patty mentioned is what you want.
Mar 31st, 2008, 12:31 PM
#8
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 23,073
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Your 2,850 Flying Blue points have next to zero value. Forget about those.
If an US-France flight on AF has two classes, then they are Business (marketed as l´Espace Affaires) and Economy (marketed as Tempo). If it has three classes, then, it also has First Class (marketed as l´Espace Première), which is above Business.
If an US-France flight on AF has two classes, then they are Business (marketed as l´Espace Affaires) and Economy (marketed as Tempo). If it has three classes, then, it also has First Class (marketed as l´Espace Première), which is above Business.
Mar 31st, 2008, 01:21 PM
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 637
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
gee, i couldn't imagine it could get any nicer than the service and seat i had on that one return flight!
i'd rather not have to pay the $3000, especially because i'll probably have to include at least one of my other two family members with me.
given that this is an AF flight, it sounds like the best plan would be to get enough award points to buy a business class ticket, as opposed to upgrading.
i'd rather not have to pay the $3000, especially because i'll probably have to include at least one of my other two family members with me.
given that this is an AF flight, it sounds like the best plan would be to get enough award points to buy a business class ticket, as opposed to upgrading.
Mar 31st, 2008, 01:30 PM
#10
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The aircraft used for PHL-CDG are 2 class and what you got bumped up to was business. Since you have more Delta miles, I'd probably concentrate on those and try to use them to redeem award tickets. I also think that there are less opportunities to earn Flying Blue miles through activities other than flying compared to Skymiles. And if you redeem an award ticket through Flying Blue, you'll need to pay fuel surcharges <i>and</i> taxes. Currently, you don't have to pay fuel surcharges, only taxes, on award tickets issued through Skymiles for travel originating from the US.
Mar 31st, 2008, 05:45 PM
#11
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,669
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
or, as a not too frequent flyer, would it make more sense to forget the miles and the expensive Amex cards, and go with one of the all business airlines:
http://us.lavion.com/ to Orly
http://www.flysilverjet.com/ and
http://www.eosairlines.com/flyeos/overview/home.jsf to London
I ask, because I'm not that frequent a flyer either. I am racking up some miles from my credit cards, but enough for a ticket for me only, and with the restrictions, and problems getting either an upgrade or a ticket, it almost seems better to try an alternative. L'avion is charging $1359 RT May 5 - May 12 this year, to get an idea, newark - Orly. Not a bad price at all - 757-200. Old style seats, not the super nice lie flat ones, but still better than economy.
http://us.lavion.com/ to Orly
http://www.flysilverjet.com/ and
http://www.eosairlines.com/flyeos/overview/home.jsf to London
I ask, because I'm not that frequent a flyer either. I am racking up some miles from my credit cards, but enough for a ticket for me only, and with the restrictions, and problems getting either an upgrade or a ticket, it almost seems better to try an alternative. L'avion is charging $1359 RT May 5 - May 12 this year, to get an idea, newark - Orly. Not a bad price at all - 757-200. Old style seats, not the super nice lie flat ones, but still better than economy.
Apr 1st, 2008, 12:30 AM
#12
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<i>as a not too frequent flyer, would it make more sense to forget the miles and the expensive Amex cards, and go with one of the all business airlines:</i>
YES. The only issue, of course, is whether the all-business class carriers will stay in business until Spring 2009. But, assuming they do, something like L'Avion is a steal at less than $1500 compared to using miles to upgrade.
Personally, I think that you need to earn a minimum of 50k miles per year in a single program (through flights/credit cards/etc) to even start worrying about playing the frequent flyer game.
Consider how much you can reasonably accrue in mileage between now and next spring. Even a generous sign-on bonus for a credit card will amount to maybe 20k miles. Is it really worth taking out 4 or 5 credit cards to earn enough miles to upgrade 2 tickets?
Also, bear in mind the cost of the M class ticket required to upgrade with Delta miles is likely to be close to $2000 round-trip. Air France has a similar minimum fare class that will likely price out around $2000, as well. And those few carriers that will upgrade cheaper fare classes will likely charge an upgrade fee. On Continental, for example, these fees will amoung to $900 for a round-trip upgrade on a cheap ticket, likely pushing the total cost close to that $2000 range.
My suggestion is to look hard at some other options. I would wait before booking on someone like L'Avion, but they could be an option closer to the date. I would also keep pricing out business class tickets on the regular carriers, as the occasional sale might get you tickets for $2300 or so.
Finally, consider premium economy on Virgin Atlantic or British Airways, which both serve Philadelphia. You would have to connect at Heathrow, or tack on a night or two in London and take the train, but you will get an experience close to domestic first class at a fair price - perhaps as low as $1000, if you get lucky.
YES. The only issue, of course, is whether the all-business class carriers will stay in business until Spring 2009. But, assuming they do, something like L'Avion is a steal at less than $1500 compared to using miles to upgrade.
Personally, I think that you need to earn a minimum of 50k miles per year in a single program (through flights/credit cards/etc) to even start worrying about playing the frequent flyer game.
Consider how much you can reasonably accrue in mileage between now and next spring. Even a generous sign-on bonus for a credit card will amount to maybe 20k miles. Is it really worth taking out 4 or 5 credit cards to earn enough miles to upgrade 2 tickets?
Also, bear in mind the cost of the M class ticket required to upgrade with Delta miles is likely to be close to $2000 round-trip. Air France has a similar minimum fare class that will likely price out around $2000, as well. And those few carriers that will upgrade cheaper fare classes will likely charge an upgrade fee. On Continental, for example, these fees will amoung to $900 for a round-trip upgrade on a cheap ticket, likely pushing the total cost close to that $2000 range.
My suggestion is to look hard at some other options. I would wait before booking on someone like L'Avion, but they could be an option closer to the date. I would also keep pricing out business class tickets on the regular carriers, as the occasional sale might get you tickets for $2300 or so.
Finally, consider premium economy on Virgin Atlantic or British Airways, which both serve Philadelphia. You would have to connect at Heathrow, or tack on a night or two in London and take the train, but you will get an experience close to domestic first class at a fair price - perhaps as low as $1000, if you get lucky.
Apr 1st, 2008, 02:58 AM
#14
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
United's premium economy is not the same as that offered by Virgin and BA. United's Economy Plus is just a normal coach seat with extra legroom. On BA and Virgin, the seats are wider, offer more legroom, have more recline, and include legrests. Virgin takes it a step further with dedicated check-in and better catering.
They are also sold differently. On Virgin and BA, premium economy is a separate class of ticket, for which you will pay a premium. On United, Economy Plus is a benefit for certain travelers flying on coach tickets. The most common way to get access to the section is if you have elite status with United, but you can also purchase access (good for yourself and a companion) for what I think is $349 per year. That can be a deal, depending upon how many long flights you might find yourself taking.
They are also sold differently. On Virgin and BA, premium economy is a separate class of ticket, for which you will pay a premium. On United, Economy Plus is a benefit for certain travelers flying on coach tickets. The most common way to get access to the section is if you have elite status with United, but you can also purchase access (good for yourself and a companion) for what I think is $349 per year. That can be a deal, depending upon how many long flights you might find yourself taking.
Apr 1st, 2008, 07:08 AM
#16
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 637
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yes, in philly we're limited to AF or USAir for non-stop. though newark is a consideration.
is it just me, or does $3000 (probably $6000) seem like an awful lot of money for one night and one return flights of luxury? though it was really, really nice...
thx
is it just me, or does $3000 (probably $6000) seem like an awful lot of money for one night and one return flights of luxury? though it was really, really nice...
thx
Apr 1st, 2008, 07:09 AM
#17
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<i>but I didn't think VS served PHL.</i>
That is because they don't...
I recommended them, sort of assuming they served PHL. Turns out they don't. Thanks for correcting me.
So, unless Newark is a fair substitute, then BA would be their best option for premium economy.
That is because they don't...
I recommended them, sort of assuming they served PHL. Turns out they don't. Thanks for correcting me.
So, unless Newark is a fair substitute, then BA would be their best option for premium economy.
Apr 1st, 2008, 07:12 AM
#18
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<i>is it just me, or does $3000...</i>
No, it isn't just you. I'm happy when my company pays for me to fly up front, but I wouldn't pay $3k for it. At least not yet.
Flying up front can be addictive, though...
No, it isn't just you. I'm happy when my company pays for me to fly up front, but I wouldn't pay $3k for it. At least not yet.
Flying up front can be addictive, though...
Apr 1st, 2008, 08:57 AM
#19
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,875
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Travelg - that is the problem...once you have flown it you don't want to to go back. I have never flown first on an international flight but have flown business and it is a world of a different experience.
I hate, I mean hate to fly - but flying business international is actually very relaxing. The same can simply not be said for economy.
I have a question regarding VS or BA premium economy - I was pricing things out for next spring as well (I realize I cannot see the exact dates/fares but trying to get an idea) and was looking at the Premium Economny - has anyone flown them and what is the experience? We have to fly a LONG way from LAX to get across the pond...
I hate, I mean hate to fly - but flying business international is actually very relaxing. The same can simply not be said for economy.
I have a question regarding VS or BA premium economy - I was pricing things out for next spring as well (I realize I cannot see the exact dates/fares but trying to get an idea) and was looking at the Premium Economny - has anyone flown them and what is the experience? We have to fly a LONG way from LAX to get across the pond...
Apr 1st, 2008, 09:51 AM
#20
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've flown VS PE between LAX and LHR but not BA WT+. From what I understand VS PE comes with a few extra perks that BA WT+ does not. I'm comfortable in PE for a flight to LHR but wouldn't want to travel any farther than that. v-flyer.com is an excellent site for all things VS related.
