Do I switch FF programs or should I stay with United?
 

We've just drained our United FF miles account, so I'm thinking that this would be a good time to change/switch programs if that is what I want to do. I earn most of my miles from my Chase/Unitied Visa cards and some from actually flying United. On the average I earn about 70,000 miles a year. I don't travel for business. The problem that I have with United is that their fares always seem on the high side and I hate to pay more just to get miles. In my future I see trips to Hawaii, the South Pacific, the Caribbean and Europe.

Should I switch and if so to whom? What program(s) do you belong to? How does it work for you? Many thanks!

Where do you fly out of?

SFO or SJC. Thanks.

I'll suggest staying put. From SFO, UA offers you many more non-stop flights then other carriers/alliances, and there are two other big benefits. One is that Mileage Plus (or other Star Alliance) miles seem to be easier to to use than oneworld or Skyteam. The other is Economy Plus on UA's flights if you're a Premier.

Thanks rkkwan.

How many miles do you fly a year?

My partner and I have flown around 30,000 miles each this year. A little less last year. This coming year will be a little less.

That's a very important question by mrwunrfl that I failed to ask.

Basically, my theory is that the FF game should be played only by people who fly at least 25,000 <b>paid</b> miles (or less if in business or first), so they're can at least qualify for a bottom level elite on one airline.

If you have trouble maintaining that every year, then I'd suggest just get a cash-back credit card for your purchases, and then buy the cheapest ticket for each trip.

We all are AA FFs. We like the AA transatlantic flights. We have redeemed miles several times on upgrades or free tickets.

DH has MC/AA credit card that sure helps a lot (I let him pay for most of the shoping!).

It depends on your home base. We do not have United here, and we find AA does go to many places via JFK and MIA.

I live in MCO and don't fly as much as I would like, but when I do fly--I fly.

Because MCO is not a hub city, we can pretty much be guaranteed a single stop for wherever we're going. I earn miles with AA, CO, and DL, the three legacies that I actually like. (And they all fly Boeing.)

My advice is that even though you can get miles with UA, do you like UA when compared to other carriers? I think that a big part of travel is enjoying the experience, and not just getting from point A to point B at the cheapest rate.

I read somewhere, on Frequent Flyer, I think, that United doesn't treat their elite members as well as Delta, but they do treat their non-elite (like you, and me) members better, so I am switching to United, from Delta.

So, rkkwan, you think that flown miles are the best? Why is that? I am a newb to the FF world and spend a lot of time envying the elite travelers. I don't fly much each year either, but do 1 long trip - Egypt this year, Botswana next year. Most of my miles are from credit cards. I always go for the cheaper fare, since I don't travel much, but if the fares are close, I'll go where I have the miles. Does that make sense?

I just got an American Express Starwood Preferred Guest card, as you can transfer the points on a one-to-one basis into a bunch of different airlines - AA is what we use. We already have the Citibank AAdvantage card, but the benefit to SPG is for every 20000 points transferred, they add 5000 - unlimited (although there is a daily limit of 99,999). We'll keep the citibank card, though, because a lot of places don't accept AMEX.

I like AA - we've been able to use our miles fairly easily and regularly flying out of BDL. We've been able to achieve elit status with them primarily by credit card spending - this year we should hit the 2 million mile mark, giving us (me) permanent platinum status. It helps that we have a business that also adds miles. :D

Momliz -

Basically all airlines let people sign up for their FF programs for free, but many find out that their &quot;hard-earned&quot; miles collected over many months are hard to use. No availability on the dates and routing they want. Worse, some find that their miles can expire if they don't keep the account active.

I hear these kinds of stuff often, and it's true. But most of these people are not frequent flyer. The programs are called <b>frequent</b> flyer for a reason.

All airlines recognize the real FF by having elite levels in their programs. First level usually start at 25,000 elite qualifying miles (EQM). Second 50K, top level 75 or 100K. EQMs are collected through each <b>calendar year</b>, for the sole purpose of elite level determination for the next program year (which starts when the passenger reaches the level, and lasts till end of Feb of the third year. You can only earn EQMs (with rare exceptions) by <b>buying a qualifying ticket</b> and <b>actually flying</b> it. Not by credit card purchases, and some discount fares may earn less than 100% of the fare. Business class or above will earn bonus EQMs.

There are lots of real benefits by being elites. These vary from airline to airline, but in general include bonus miles, better reward flight availability, better seat assignments, dedicated phone lines and check-in counters, elite security lines are hub airports, advanced boarding. And on United, access to the Economy Plus seats with 4-5 more inches of legroom.

All of those are very significant benefits, and therefore I strongly believe those who pay for and fly enough each year to become elite on one airline program should do so, even if the fares may not be the cheapest all the time.

On the other hand, if one cannot sustain at least the bottom elite level each year, then it's not worth the trouble with staying with one airline all the time. Doesn't matter if you earn lots of miles each year with the credit card - you still can't get the better award availability that elites can get, or other elite benefits. I suggest those to just buy the cheapest fare or best routing trip by trip. Get a credit card that earns you 1% or more cash rebate instead.

Say you put $50K on your credit card each year. Rather than earning 50,000 miles on an airline card that may be hard to use, why not just get a 1% card to earn $500 back, plus the $50-80 you save on the annual fees?

Thanks, rkkwan, I will stick with getting the cheapest fare, and hope for the best.

United now has an interesting program where you buy into a Economy Plus club. Then you can get econ plus seats if there are some available. But, they do not guarantee availability. So, the $350 that you spent does not guarantee availability, but if there is a seat they will upgrade you and a companion. Could be a rip off.

Your approach does make sense, Momliz.

The OP, OTOH, qualifies for Premier status if at least 25,000 of the 30,000 miles flown is on United and Star Alliance and credited to an MP account. If OP considers EPA to be worth the fee then it might make sense to pay a bit more in airfare, fly United, and get the Premier status instead of paying the fee.

That is the first time that I heard anyone suggest that United doesn't treat it's elites well. I've been Premier, Premier Exec, or 1K for the last 6 years, and for a few years in the 80s I had elite status. They treat me very well.

It is also surprising to hear it said that United treats non-elites better than other airlines treat their non-elites. Seems to me that United is all about their elite-level travelers, the frequent flyers - especially the last minute business traveler who pays a high fare. From my lofty position I perceive that GMs (general members) aren't treated all that well.

Last year I flew 65,000 EQMs on United and *A, actually 62,000 BIS. I am a 1K this year, getting the 35,000 bonus EQMs via the MP Platinum Visa, the double-EQM offer, and even business class-of-service bonuses when flying on discounted economy.

Economy Plus along is worth the trouble of getting elite status, if one flies UA enough.

For non-elites buying E+ Access, you should buy it at the time when you can get guaranteed assignments. It's then good for a full year for you and a companion when traveling together.

I don't think I'd call E+ Access a rip off--as long as you fly enough to get your money's worth and recognize that you're getting a few extra inches of leg room and not a real premium economy product.

It's first come, first served for United elites and E+ Access subscribers alike. Once the system recognizes you as a subscriber (within several days of purchase, I believe), you can see and choose E+ seats. As long as you book a reasonable amount of time in advance, you're pretty likely to get E+ seats.

I've had UA elite status every year since United introduced E+, and the only times I can recall not getting an E+ seat were when traveling on one PNR with two other non-eligible passengers (daughter is now a Premier, so this is no longer an issue) or when flying standby on a flight other than the one on which I was originally booked. I think once, a few years ago on an elite-heavy SFO-ORD flight, I could not reserve an E+ seat when booking about two weeks in advance--I called and had an E+ middle seat unblocked.

rkkwan,
I agree with all your comments, but would add one other thing. Another reason to build up miles (over getting cash) is for upgrades. Personally, I think using miles for that purpose, especially on inter-continental flights, makes an awful lot of sense.

SHE has a card that earns 1% cash back.
HE has a card that earns 1 mile per dollar.

Both of them spend $10,000 per year on their cc.

At the end of 2.5 years She has $250 cash back in her purse.

At the end of 2.5 years He has 25,000 FF miles and has paid MP Visa $150 (at $60 per year) in annual dues.

Basically, because of the annual fee, He is paying 1.6 cents per mile or $400 for those 25,000 miles.

The both go to Vegas together on Ted. She pays $250 for the rt ticket and earns 4000 miles. He pays 25,000 miles for the same flights. He paid $400 for the ticket that cost her $250.

Point being is that some people don't think it through.

Jack thought it through to a different conclusion under different circumstances.

I travel alot internationally, and try to keep my miles between United and Delta. I think they're both good. I prefer Delta because they do alot of automatic upgrades (I'm Gold there), but United is fine too (I'll be Premier Exec after my flight next week - I'm Premier now). I still will fly Southwest - or anyone - that has convenient flights if I need to go somewhere. Also, I have a Diners Card, and a Capital One visa that I get a ton of miles from - and it's great to combine all the miles. As someone said, if you don't 25,000 actual miles (each person), I wouldn't worry - join all the programs, and the miles will add up eventually. If you can get the 25,000 - you can at least check in at the Business Class line (and in my airport - I can go through priority security) which is all I really need....

I disagree about having to be an elite member. We being to United, use all credit card, pay off monthly, shopping miles, dining miles &amp; online shopping mall for flowers etc. We have booked $40,000 worth of first class tickets to Europe (LAX-Italy &amp; LAX-Zurich) in the last 2 years, and have had all the privileges rkkwan talked about. Maybe we've just been lucky!

PeggyE - It's because you were able to spend enough to collect enough miles to get First Class international tickets, and were lucky enough to find availability (unless you spend REALLY ENOUGH to use double the miles for &quot;standard&quot; awards).

What I was talking about earlier mostly concerned those who save and save for several years just to get enough miles for a coach ticket to Hawaii or Europe. You don't get any benefits when you use an award coach ticket.

Two pairs of FC tickets to Europe is 480,000 miles in saver award, or 880,000 miles in &quot;standard award&quot;.

Not too many people put that much money on their credit card in a few years. I don't.

BTW, I don't disagree that it's a very good deal to use miles for international business and first class awards. In fact, I totally agree that it's the best way for some.

Like PeggyE. By just spending $480,000 on a credit card (or less if there are other bonus or double/triple points) involved, they can get 4 international FC tickets that cost $40,000. If you use a 1% rebate card, you'll need to spend $4mil to get that $40,000.

So, for some, it makes total sense.

I guess it comes down to earning a lot of miles quickly, either flying or by cc or both.

PeggyE is working the system, though, and earning miles at rates higher than 1 per dollar.

But $10,000 is what the F ticket costs, not what it is worth to the average person. A first class award ticket to South Asia is worth the 120,000 miles, to me, compared to what else I could do with the miles. FF miles are just another currency, earned by people at different rates and with varying effort.

Wow! I thought this thread was dead. Thanks for the debate. My partner is a scientist and plans to analyze our decision to death and your comments will help him do that!

Just to add, we watch for 10X awards, like when we signed up for Cingular...cha-ching 5,000 points, some dining spot we frequent are 5 or 10 to 1. It is money we are spending anyways. We even auto pay most utilities with the card. I get miles grocery shopping at Vons. But key is, we do pay it off each month so there are no finance charges. And the Luthansa FCO tickets were 200,000 for 2 &amp; this year 240,000 for 2 tickets to Munich/Zurich, returning Paris/LAX. I've been thrilled, and like I said maybe just lucky! I called once each time (about 8 months ahead of flight timeframe) and got what we wanted. No, the flight is not worth $10,000 to me for sure but for $134.00 I'll take it. Enjoy your flights!

I am totally unhappy with Delta FF miles. For the last 3 major trips...Hawaii, and Europe twice...not able to use them. I am currently looking at June 2008 to BRU from ATL. I see practically whole planes empty; however, they only offer Sky Choice which is double the normal miles for Coach...no regular FF coach or First class. Again, we are paying cash to go over there through a Travel Package whiles these miles pile up. The only time we used them was a short trip from Phila to Atl and they charged $50 each way because of less than so many days notice. You would think they would be glad to get rid of open seats at a later date. No more Delta FF for us.

to Debi, read my air mile complaints about Delta. I have over 200,000 miles sitting there for several years and right now cannot get a flight from Atl to BRU June 23, 2008 except Sky Choice. What is the trick? Is this far in advance too late? I see lots of empty Sky Choice and First Class Sky Choice (so the seats are there)??

mrwunrfl posted: &quot;I am a 1K this year, getting the 35,000 bonus EQMs via the MP Platinum Visa&quot;.
FYI: There are NOT 35,000 bonus EQM's available via the Visa card. The 35,000 miles that one can get are RDM's. You can earn a max of 5000 EQM's on a spend basis, and another 5000 EQM's on an anniversary basis.

Best, Dave

jayge - Did you ask DL to check availability on CO, NW, AF, KL, CZ, and other airlines for you trip to BRU?

If you insist on one particular flight on one particular date, then you'll never be able to use any of your miles.

Dave, I think you didn't finish reading the sentence:
&quot;... 35,000 bonus EQMs via the MP Platinum Visa, the <b>double-EQM offer</b>, and even business <b>class-of-service bonuses</b> when flying on discounted economy.&quot;

The bonus EQMs were earned three ways, not all on the MP Visa. I'm kind of disappointed that nobody told me that it is not possible to earn business class COS bonuses when flying on a discounted economy ticket.

It <b>is</b> possible to get COS bonus EQMs on a discounted economy ticket--when you get rebooked to Y or C in irregular ops. I got a whopping 606 of them this year...but unfortunately didn't get rebooked that way when my MEL-SYD-SFO flight was cancelled. I guess getting to fly home in Qantas J on a United economy ticket was bonus enough :)

Good deal, ms-go. Did you earn AAdvantage miles?

I had two SWU-upgraded W fares that were rebooked into C after flight cancellations. They earned 6,648 COS bonus EQMs, crucial to making 1K, and the SWUs were redeposited.