Delta = Bankruptcy?

Apr 5th, 2004, 04:35 PM
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Delta = Bankruptcy?

As reported by USAToday
AAFrequentFlyer is offline  
Apr 6th, 2004, 11:01 AM
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Great - remember how you advised me on plane types from Savannah/Boston (MD80). If neither Delta nor USAir stay in business, is my son stranded forever in Savannah?

We thought we were so smart by booking 2 different tickets with miles for Thanksgiving - one on Delta, one on USAir.
gail is offline  
Apr 6th, 2004, 11:07 AM
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You'll be fine Gail, at least for the near future. Doom has been predicted for USAir for some time now, and they're still kicking

Delta is still good for some time.

AAFrequentFlyer is offline  
Apr 6th, 2004, 11:39 AM
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If you note in the article, the prediction is for early next year. And even if Delta does file Chapter 11, it's not like flights will cease to operate immediately. No need to worry.
Patty is offline  
Apr 9th, 2004, 04:17 AM
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If Delta declares bankruptcy it will mainly be to push the union contracts re-open.

I don't think there is a big risk of them shutting down.
CarolA is offline  
Apr 13th, 2004, 10:13 AM
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so what will happen to our FF miles then?
I have over 100,000 miles
drummer0002 is offline  
Apr 13th, 2004, 10:22 AM
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Delta is not shutting down. UA is in bankruptcy, USAir was in bankruptcy, so had many other airlines. There's not a single case where customers lose their FF miles unless they shut down, because it would make absolutely no sense in turning away their best customers.
rkkwan is offline  
Apr 13th, 2004, 10:49 AM
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Don't worry about miles. Mileage programs are usually the most profitable divisions of airlines. So even when an airline would go bankrupt their mileage program would be sold as an assett for nice chunk of money. Other airlines are willing to take over the FF programs, because of 1)nice new database and 2)they are not actually hurting themselves because the award seats are capacity controlled anyway. The only people that get hurt are the new and old FF members because now they will have to fight for the same number of seats, but with more members to contend with.

The only time that I know of recently, when the ff program disappeared with the airline was the bankrupt Australian airline Ansett, about 4 years ago, but that was a different circumstance.

All that said, I wouldn't worry too much with Delta for some time, although it will come to blows over there when Delta will have to ask for some serious salary concessions from it's pilots very soon. Delta's pilots are the best paid in the business, and we're not talking about differences in pennies per hour, it's more like dollars more per hour. This can't go on in today's enviornment.
AAFrequentFlyer is offline  
Apr 14th, 2004, 10:20 AM
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Here is the latest:

Delta Air Lines' chief executive stressed the urgent need for pilot wage concessions on Wednesday after the carrier reported a $387 million first-quarter loss, saying that "continued losses of this magnitude are unsustainable."

Highlighting Delta's $20.6 billion debt load during a conference call with analysts, CEO Gerald Grinstein added that "our balance sheet has been severely damaged, to the point of exhaustion."

At the end of March, Delta had $2.18 billion in cash, down from $2.71 billion at the end of December.
AAFrequentFlyer is offline  
Apr 15th, 2004, 07:10 AM
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Delta is my hometown airline and have been a loyal customer with them for many years and have managed to cash in some of those loyal rewards. That having been said DL is in a sad state of affairs. Their strength is their frequency and safety. Their customer service is okay and their inflight service and experience is lagging. A lot of the fleet is not young, many 757's 737's with bad seats and space, no inflight service at all. Late last year I tried Jet Blue to see what all the fuss was about. Nice New Plane, Wider more comfortable seats, more legroom, 3 Bev Services, 2 Snack Services, Bright Interior, Seatback TV. And this from a "discounter". DL ran them out of ATL, but my bet is they will be back. They are offering the public a decent flying experience and sadly most of the majors are not. The majors keep cutting costs, and service...what they need to do is figure out a way to ecomocially offer a superior product, and customers would flock back to them. I for one would glaly pay a little more for a better coach experience.
stepmoore is offline  
Apr 15th, 2004, 12:32 PM
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SW's the model for the new air age; something that Jet Blue emulates and the "majors" are beginning to understand.


Their cost per seat mile is miniscule compared to traditional carriers. (Huge factor working against US Air during these days of financial turmoil.)

They're one-class so they're not giving out FF and "elite" freebies as do the majors.

SW proved you can satisfy customers with peanuts if the rest of your operation is slick and efficient.

They're non-union -- obviously salaries are lower In addition, they've got scheduling flexibility, employees working longer hours, none of that "Not my job" attitude or rules that afflicts the majors and drives up the cost of running their operations.

They've simplified maintenance (these guys tend to have ONE type and only ONE type of aircrafts in their fleets.

Their turnaround of aircraft is much quicker than the majors -- they get more out of their capital investments.

They carefully pick and choose their routes so their operations are less complicated.

All of the above is off the top of my head --- I'm sure I've missed much.

PS -- They say the best form of flattery
is copying -- two of the struggling majors United and Delta are trying to emulate them w/ "Ted" and "Song" respectively.

I think we're going to see more of that happening.

Who knows who's next -- "AmericanLLite" perhaps???

PS - The following occured to me as I composed the above.

Just suppose that the "non-traditional" approach to people transport evolved one step further...

I know it's going to sound nutty, but please bear with me.

First, one thing we can agree on is that if passengers are handled inefficiently by air carriers, in contrast, freight is moved with nary a hitch.

They're efficient and they're realtively cheap shipping packages around the country (and the world) - some of them heavy.

Suppose, instead of traditional red-eyes from coast to coast, and other long-hauls (overseas), and unhappy and tired passengers, customers were shipped and delivered to their destinations?

All it would take is a version of those "micro hotels" found in Japan (sort of a pod with a bed).

There would also be room for ALL their luggage. Think of it - no more lost bags and no more contention for carry-on space. (Think of the money and time that would be saved by the discontinuing of traditional baggage-handling and "locating" lost luggage.)

All you'd have to do is go to the airport, get into your assigned pod (most have TV's and reading lamps -- a snack box could be added).

Asleep or awake, passengers would be delivered to their destinations from their "arrival airport" and "unpacked".

Think of the possibilities - airlines wouldn't need as many inflight personnel.

Also, since "pods" can be stacked, one on top of the other, planes' passenger capacity is doubled (and depending on the aircraft, maybe tripled).

(Now down to the patent office!)
rahmanbar is offline  
Apr 15th, 2004, 02:22 PM
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Your are wrong about SW employees not being unionized. They are and as a matter of fact the FAs are getting close to possibly walking.

Your idea on pods was/is considered, but no you would not get as many people on a plane and also sfety issues. It would be great for the passengers though, but it will never fly. No pun intended.
AAFrequentFlyer is offline  
Apr 15th, 2004, 02:38 PM
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Thanks - stand corrected re: SW's employees being unionized.

Would be interesting to compare their costs per seat mile w/ Jet Blue's.

BTW, rummaging through some old papers and found my very first Aadvantage statement.

Just as a piece of trivia (which you may very well be aware of), the program started with a pre-announcement to Admirals Club members in 1981.

First eligib;e flights were on 5/1 of that year and I remember adding my number to the records in the ORD AC.

I know this dates me - yearly membership was $40. per back then - you had to pu boarding passes at the airport and doing it in the AC translated into a few upgrades (back then they still had 747's to LAX)

My very first FF award was FC for two to HNL - only cost 75,000 miles and there were no capacity controls.

Those were the days.

PS - Working on refining the "pod-class" air travel. Your point considered, perhaps the best equipment would be a C-130!
rahmanbar is offline  
Apr 15th, 2004, 05:45 PM
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JetBlue will also hit a brick wall soon. I'm not saying they will go under, just that it won't be a bed of roses either. When the airline started few years ago, they got an excellent deal from Airbus. I don't know the details, but what convinced JetBlue to go with Airbus over Boeing was the finacing and warranty deal that Airbus offered. Airbus offered to hold the notes with a very low monthly payments, with balloon payment coming in 2005?(I think). They also offered to do all the maintance work till the balloon payment is due. That's why JetBlue is the biggest customer of Airbus in the world.
So what will happen next year, is that JetBlue will probably have to refinance at regular rates and higher payments, but more importantly, take over maintaining their own planes. That's a huge expense that wasn't part of their expense account up to now. The money will have to come from somewhere, and that usually means higher faree.
That's one of the reasons that the majors are willing to match or beat any JetBlue fare on the same routes (many times a loosing proposition for the majors), anticipating that in few months JetBlue will have to face reality. JetBlue on the other hand is trying extremely hard to position itself in as many airports and get a many routes NOW, before they will have to speak to the bankers.
It's a good airline, but it's also being run under somewhat pretencious financial structure. Only time will tell how well they will be able to compete and expend once the real financing starts.
Another little hiccup for all the budget airlines in US is the fact that for last few years and in the near future, they will actually start competing against each other on many routes. Many of these were regional for a long time, but by expending their networks they started to step on each others toes. This will also hit their bottom lines in the near future.
AAFrequentFlyer is offline  
May 22nd, 2004, 07:38 PM
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Delta=Bankruptcy? I'm doing my part.
CubFanAlways is offline  
May 23rd, 2004, 08:41 AM
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So it is just Delta?
You meanthat Delta came up with this all by theirselves with no "encouragement" from the government and Delta is the only airline doing this? Or are they the only airline that has gone public with it?

As close as the airlines are with the government, how can you trust any of them with any info as far as providing it to the feds. If they want it, they will get it.

I thought I read a while back that Homeland Security was hoping to require this of all airlines...
atticus is offline  
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