Delta and Northwest close to merger
 

For info ad nauseum on this, go to flyertalk.com.

Might be inevitable this time. And UA/CO will follow if DL/NW do merge:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...0,140358.story

It's about time. If these mergers happen it will be great news for everybody. US does not need 6 legacies plus handfull of LCCs.

Once this happens I predict healthy financial returns for US based airlines.

Unfortunately there will be some layoffs, but in the long run, the ones still employed, will be looking at brighter future.

I don't see it as good news for the passengers.

Passengers benefit from the extreme competition, which results in very low airfare. Consolidation will decrease competition.

With 4 legacies merging it will leave us with 4 plus another 1/2 dozen LCCs. I don't believe competition will be effected by the mergers, yet it will create a healthy and more importantly <b>honest</b> airline business which is good news for stock holders, airline employees, passengers and cargo shippers.

WSJ today says part of the urgency is that they believe the antitrust review will go more quickly in the &quot;waning days of the Bush administration than when his successor is in place. Also says that if NW agrees to the DL merger (even if it is not completed, just formally agrees to it) then that will void NW's veto power over CO doing a merger with UA, which it has due to its CO stock holdings and has been a stumbling block to date.

rk - so what will happen to our hard won OnePass mileage and status???

Seamus - For those with lots of Onepass miles, a merger with UA will be great. Onepass is one of the worst FF program when it comes to perks and availability. To get all the *A award flights will be great.

And the day after both of those mergers, with two legacy carriers gone, there will be three new LCCs. Maybe four.

I could probably find some investors to front me the money to lease a couple of L1011s that are sitting in the desert. Apparently there are a lot of people with a lot of money to invest in new airlines and a lot of airplane lessors who can offer EZ terms that I think I could start my own airlines. Wouldn't even have to repaint the planes, just call it Totally Wunrfl Airlines.

What will happen with FF accounts? I have NWA and Delta.

The airlines will of course merge the FF programs and in fact you can combine miles from the two into a new account.

Happened basically every time there's a merger, whether it's CP/AC, AF/KL or US/HP.

Of course, who knows what the rules are for the new program. But for NW/DL, there aren't a lot of incompatibilities. Both are already Skyteam, and they have similar partners. Most of their fares earn 100% EQM/MQM on each other's program already, but they'll need to figure out the issue of EQP.

Relatively simple stuff.

Now, with a UA/CO combination, lots more to talk about. Very different upgrade programs, almost no common partners, etc.

To AA Frequent Flyer and others who are not airline employees-I have been an employee of a major US airline for almost 35 years now.

In that time, I have been reassigned to a reservations job from inflight service;been on reserve where they call you at the last minute for trips for almost 4 years(this was before cellphones and beepers so one had to &quot;call and ask&quot; to take a shower,etc.);taken numerous paycuts;lost a vacation week due to cutbacks;had my bases close and have to commute to another city to keep working;my husband lost his airline pension after 32 years AND I am now making about what I was in the early 90's.

For you AAFF to say, that I am in for brighter times makes me laugh!The last 10 or so years have been the worst. Mergers are horrible for most airline people as someone becomes the underling and loses whatever seniority they have accrued and what that seniority can provide for them in terms of position for work.

Do I love my job-yes, but not what I have had to go through the past 35 years. Any mergers will be another &quot;mountain&quot; I must go over in being a skygoddess!

twa, clever. going to lv?

dutyfree...I feel your pain.Every friend I have is somehow connected to the travel industry...Oh there is always at least maybe only one eternal optimist.By and large, they agree with you.Not one single, solitary person on this or any other travel forum could ever in a million years accurately predict what will happen in mergers in your industry.But, they do so love to play dont they!! I love it when we get together, and either a F/A, CSR, even a ramp agent comes out whith their story of the day:&quot; Guess what one of those flying idiots did/said today!!&quot;...Makes my day....

<b>dutyfree</b>.

First, we all pick our jobs. Nobody is forcing you. If I was not happy for 15 years, took abuse, paycuts, etc., I wouldn't care how much I loved my job, I would have left as soon as I wasn't happy with the treatment and or pay. Main goal of any company/corporation is to satisfy the customer, whoever that may be, not the employee. Of course in order to be a succesful, company/corporation you need happy, satisfied employees and that's why some are better then others, but at some point you also have to be realistic. When things are not working you may have to do some head cutting but at the end the remaining employees should look at a much safer, happier work environment.

second, I actully believe that mergers will result in better job security and overall better working environment. I did say that part of the merger will mean some people will lose their jobs and like you said, some will be pushed down in seniority, but would you rather have your company locking the door one day and you and thousands of co-workers being out of jobs?

The reality is setting in. Unless there are mergers or takeovers, the 6 legacy, and just as manu LCCs, can't last in this market. Deal with it, or look for a new job in a different market.

I would like to clarify some things to the general public about being an airline employee primarily a crewmember. It has been a great job through the years despite the change in various managements who come for their golden parachutes then leave and the traveling public.I plan on staying as long as I can as I enjoy the job and also need the money.

To work as an airline employee, one must be in tune with the lifestyle of it such as a ER night nurse at the hospital;truck driver,etc. The vast majority of the public would find it very hard to be gone for holidays,weekends,important life changing events and working strange hours everyweek with changing scheduling.Although most of my friends think that I lead this very exciting lifestyle,it took over 30 years to get to do it.The one thing that I constantly hear from most of my friends is that they would love to travel but would never want to be on a plane that long with the weird scheduling and the public in a closed container for 10 hours at a time at 37,000 feet.

That said-when one gets used to the &quot;non-scheduled&quot; lifestyle of an airline employee it is extremely hard to go into another more structured one with 9-5 hours,office,etc.(I am primarily speaking from a crewmember point of view!) The job requires one to be able to be by themselves in strange cities;go out to dinner by themselves and basically, be very self sufficient to entertain themselves which alot of people have a hard time doing.When one works with a difficult employee, it makes for a long 3-6 day trip and there is nowhere to hide from them.

I have a secondary teaching certificate that I have renewed every year but I am not interested in being in a ground job at this time.

My point to all of you who think mergers are so wonderful is that most of the airline employees have given and given through the years without ever getting back what we gave up previously. Meanwhile, the management teams come and go with &quot;new ideas&quot; (that have been used before but they want to use to show how great their MBA's are).They still do not understand that those of us who have been around awhile understand what it takes to get our passengers to come back and enjoy us-so why not use that information?

Time and time again, my airlines has seen these management clowns walk off with hundreds of millions in parachutes after only 1-3 years there.While I realize that this is very typical in many major companies, I find it very sad to see it in what most of us considered a &quot;people industry&quot;.Airlines should only be run by people who are actually airline people-they are not companies like Intel,GE or Proctor and Gamble. This is why so many of them are in shambles because the business school product pattern doesn't always adhire to a people industry.

The bottom line that they constantly tell us is that we are the spokespersons for our airline(the frontline) and that our jobs can make or break someone not wanting to fly with us again.

I still very much enjoy meeting new people on my flights and conversing with them in the back galley over the pond at night. I think that my outgoing personality and humor is perfect for this job so yes, I will stay with this company and hope that these mergers will help us &quot;little people&quot; in the long run...although I doubt it? I do hope that the above makes you understand my perspective on mergers and airlines?

Dutyfee, I totally understand your point of view and hope you get to finish out the career that you enjoy on the best terms possible. Best wishes!

I continue to marvel at those who blithely tell people to quit a job if they don't like it. The lack of understanding of what the &quot;grunts&quot; of this country do and how little choice many actually have is stunning. No one ever says that who's been making steadily less each year, adjusted for inflation, in areas of high unemployment and an era of poor health care provisions. People with dependents, in particular, often do not have realistic choices. Have four friends employed in res. agent jobs, and I've seen what they've been through since the 80s. Get another job? What, at WalMart?

With you all the way, dutyfree.

I am very puzzled by your initial post on this merger issue, AAFrequentFlyer.

You indicate that &quot;the US does not need 6 legacies ...&quot; Could you please explain why not? Do you have any economic evidence to support your opinion that 6 are too many? Are you aware of any historical data that should cause us to feel that we in the US do not need 6 legacies? Do you have any data that would indicate the correct number of legacies we in the US should have?

You also indicate, AAFrequentFlyer, that you &quot;... predict healthy financial returns for US based airlines.&quot; What has caused you to come to this conclusion? Are you aware of the historical data for financial returns in the cases of previous aviation mergers? Have you analyzed the financial returns over time of various US airlines before and after mergers and where mergers have failed to be approved? Do you feel that this merger will be somehow different from others that have preceded it?

Further on, you indicate with regard to employees that &quot; ...the ones still employed, will be looking at brighter future.&quot; Could you share with us your reasoning as to how this brighter future will occur? Do you have any thoughts as to what this brighter future will consist of?

As I initially mentioned, I am very puzzled by your comments and I would truly appreciate your describing to us what has caused you to arrive at your conclusions.

Thank you in advance for sharing your information with us.

If you want an in depth financial report and stock analysis, ask your favorite broker.

This is just a travel board and I was merly stating my opinion. Nobody has to agree with me.

That said, here is some food for thought. A weak company in deep financial troubles is just asking for a hostile takeover, aka AA buying TWA in 2001. Obviously 9/11 put a stop to what AA may have been planning to do with TWA but at the end, TWA is completely gone with 90% of it's employees working somewhere else. AA kept few of the desirable assets such as some planes, gates, routes and then basically just cleaned the house and basically got rid of one of it's biggest competitor. TWA is no more. One of the first premier international airlines yet it's long gone. PanAm another example when the market is just not there. The first truly international airline, a giant in the 60s and early 70s, GONE!

A friendly merger is in the best interest for all involved, or perhaps you just want the airline(s) to disappear?, shut the door, gone.

The 3 or 4 airlines are still showing loses overall. Couple of profit quarters but nothing to get excited about after losing billion$ over the last few years. How long do you think they can carry on?

By combining their work forces, shutting some stations, routes, unnecessary redundant hubs the remaining airlines will have a shot to become leaner, better and quite possibly (imagine that)...profitable, thus allowing the remaining employees to possibly have a more secure and financially healthier jobs.

Again, it's just my opinion, nobody has to agree.