Chances of lower fares in bus class?

Old Nov 23rd, 2011, 06:39 PM
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Chances of lower fares in bus class?

We have just found that our FF miles are useless in getting either an upgrade or buying a ticket in bus class to Europe, flying non-stop from SFO to a European hub, specifically to Italy on Delta or one of its partners. Even for the latest date available as of today. We are ages 76 and 80 and can't tolerate economy class on intercontinental flights any more.

Delta has a discounted business class ticket but their domestic business class seats are lousy, especially on the way home from Europe.

The cost of KLM or Air France bus class tickets would total about $11k+ for the two of us.

should we cancel the booking on Delta with its lousy domestic business class seats for $10k and wait to see if another airline will offer a deal in bus class later in the year? Or is that a vain hope?
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Old Nov 23rd, 2011, 09:37 PM
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When are you going to Italy? If you have quite a long time before you go I would cancel the Delta tickets and keep looking for cheaper business class tickets. On our last two trips to Europe I found some business class fares I considered too high and then kept looking on the airline websites and finally found fares on the very same flights and airlines for over $3,000 less than the original fares I found. By the way, we paid much less than $10,000 on Delta (flying KLM) and flying to several cities. Good luck!
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Old Nov 24th, 2011, 04:14 AM
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Milan(MXP) has cheapest biz class flights out of NYC best

cheapoair.com (biz) airawards.com 2 good cheapo sites I use

aa.com best deals for me this year on the US carriers

probably because they are going belly up but it should

not affect flights.

My wife and I opened/closed 2 AAdvantage Citicards with them

80000 FF miles snagged FREE TA flights with those will

buy or pay with points for upgrades from there.

Premium Economy with ba.com or Air France nice 1/3 bigger

than coach 2 abreast might check on that way cheaper also.

Anyway as a former Delta elite status member costs way up

service way down still have FF points 60000 with them

they are always way more than other alternatives usually.

So I would cancel those $20K tickets you can do 80-90%

better... farecompare.com best times to book sales

kayak.com/buzz great screening site.

Good luck!
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Old Nov 24th, 2011, 04:28 AM
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cheapoair.com has biz class SFO MUC MXP

from about $3500 RT with d/c that is a great deal.

Somtimes they drop them more in late Jan on Tues afternoon

when I usually do my spring summer TA boooking.

Happy Hunting!
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Old Nov 25th, 2011, 08:45 AM
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British Airways just ended a sale with full price business class tickets from US West Coast to London for about $4200.

About two weeks ago I snagged British Airways upgrade business class tickets from Seattle to London on sale for about $580 + taxes, fees and 25,000 miles round trip. When not on sale, upgradeable tickets average $2000-$2200 US West Coast to London + 25,000 miles. Expensive, yes, but still a great deal when business class usually runs closer to $6000.

BA's credit card partner, Chase, frequently offers bonus sign-up miles ranging from 30,000 miles up to as many as 100,000 miles. A great way to build miles in your FF account. At this time they are offering 10% off any flights on BA, any routes, any class of travel, for new sign-ups.

I fly BA business class to London 3-4 times each year from Seattle. I'm pretty flexible in my dates and almost always manage to score a miles-for-upgrade ticket. I think SFO is one of the more difficult airports to upgrade flights from, so you might have more luck flying from Seattle, Phoenix, Dallas or LA. You should be able to find relatively inexpensive domestic flights to any of those from SFO.

BA business class (called Club World) is very comfortable and an easy way to go for those of us getting up in years and needing more comfort. I always stretch out in the full-length flat bed and manage to get at least 6 or more hours of sleep on the way over.
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Old Nov 25th, 2011, 12:57 PM
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Thanks for all the info.

We did cancel the reservation, (BTW, quo vadis, it was for $10K for the two of us, not 20) so we are now looking for a better combination of flights and better prices. We now want to travel first to Amsterdam (we hope on KLM) and then train through Europe to Italy, returning to San Francisco from Rome.

I am not sure what to do with all the Delta miles we have. It is almost impossible to get a decent upgrade or purchase with miles for transatlantic flights -- even on the first day they are available!!

We very much want to avoid transferring from the transatlantic flight on the east coast of the US, which means another five hours of travel, and not on the roomy fully reclineable bus class seats you get on the transatlantic non-stops. And Delta will not give us bus class on that east-to-west-coast segment for miles. The last thing I want to do is arrive at JFK or ATL and have to sit in coach for the last five hours of that long trip home! I think that is a crappy deal.
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Old Nov 27th, 2011, 09:41 AM
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Charnees, when are you taking this trip? And how many miles do you have to use? Are your dates flexible at all?

I'm in SF and have found getting business award seats on KL nearly impossible, though I was able to do so a couple of years ago (with a savvy friend's help). Check flights to CDG on AF from LAX and then connect to AMS. Or is that too many connections?

Have you read the long flyertalk thread about getting low-tier awards on Delta? It'll take you a while to get through it, but I found it very helpful. You might want to start at the end and work your way backwards.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...ss-awards.html
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Old Nov 27th, 2011, 12:08 PM
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Thanks, Leely2. I will read that thread.

We are trying to minimize connections, although flying to LA and then taking Southwest home is one thought.

As for miles, we were willing to buy additional miles to get either an upgrade or buy a ticket with miles, but no dice.

We have decided not to sweat it right now. We'll probably opt for purchase with dollars, much as we hate to.
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Old Nov 27th, 2011, 03:53 PM
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Twice you have been asked when this trip is to take place, and have not responded. People would love to help you, but are unable to do so without a bit more information.
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Old Nov 27th, 2011, 04:12 PM
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Sorry. The trip will be around Sept 29 to Oct 20. We could go 3 or 4 days later.
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Old Nov 27th, 2011, 05:30 PM
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Air France and Alitalia (maybe KLM too--not 100% sure) will not have released any award seats for your dates yet. Too early. But how many miles do you have? If you have or are very close to at least 100K SkyMiles, you could always book one award ticket and buy the other. Still less expensive than paying for two business class seats.
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Old Nov 27th, 2011, 05:38 PM
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Clarification re: "If you have or are very close to at least 100K SkyMiles.."

I said "or are very close to" because you mentioned above buying some miles. 100K is a low-tier business award.

In any case, I think you will either be able to find lower-priced business class tickets for purchase or get award tickets. You've got plenty of time to work on it.
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Old Nov 28th, 2011, 04:48 PM
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We each have about 65,000 miles. We could combine them, or buy more to get enough. It's true that now we are thinking more sensibly about this thing. For one, I will now look at SEA and LAX and maybe even SAlt Lake City (SLC?) as the possible transfer point. And I will definitely look at the strategy outlined in the link Leely2 posted, If I can figure out how to do it.

BTW, our plans have changed somewhat from what I first posted. But if AF and KL haven't released their seats now, at the 330 day point, when will they?
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Old Nov 28th, 2011, 05:46 PM
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Leely2- I read the post on Flyertalk, but don't quite understand the benefits of the methods proferred over and beyond using the Delta search engine.

Using the Delta engine for my route to South America, I could get low tier award tickets in Bz if I chose routes with >9h layovers and recliner instead of lie-flat seats.

Does the Flyertalk thread offer other alternatives for low miles/lie flat/minimal connection time?
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Old Nov 28th, 2011, 06:26 PM
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Femi and Charnees,
Femi -- I am not familiar with Delta partners to SA but you might want to check them out. I know for the recent award I booked (2 business seats SFO to Kenya with a five-day stopover in Paris next June, 120K miles per person), I used the AF/KLM booking engine to research fares because flights on partners are always (?) low-tier awards on Delta. When I tried using the Delta search engine, I could not make it work even when researching just the to/from Europe legs.

I had an old Flying Blue FF account so searched for flights using KL, AF and KQ. [Charnees, it's free to set one up and would be very helpful for you for your upcoming trip.] I found a few itineraries that would work for me. Then called Delta (have to for Kenya/Tanzania award flights, which cannot be booked online) and politely, patiently and kindly fed the agent my itinerary. This took more than one call. Once an agent told me, "Oh, no we cannot book any KQ flights that are code shares with KLM or AF." I knew that was not really true, so very politely got off the phone with hime and called back until I could find an agent that understood how to make it work.

It was a pain, but ultimately really worth it.

I am at leelyagain AT gmail DOT com if you want more help. Not sure I can do it but it became a semi-hobby when I was looking. Now I have no more miles, so am glad to help if I can!
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Old Nov 28th, 2011, 06:49 PM
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By next fall I would think that most of Delta's international planes will all be full flat seats in business?
Rome is always one of the trickiest cities to get business class seats in and out of especially during the three stages of high season which you are going in. Keep checking-you have almost 10 months?
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Old Nov 29th, 2011, 05:21 AM
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Ahh, now I get it! Wish I'd seen this a month ago! I've figured out the process for United/Star Alliance with great results, but couldn't quite figure out Delta/Skyteam.

The Delta agent I spoke with said award tickets couldn't be done on the non-stop Korean Air flight, and I couldn't figure out how to get around that. I was looking for the best way to get from Los Angeles to Sao Paulo in Sept 2012.
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Old Nov 29th, 2011, 09:33 AM
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leely2 I may just contact you. Have to work on this some more first.
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Old Nov 29th, 2011, 10:01 AM
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Femi, read that flyertalk thread. I think there are a few tricks with Korean Air--seem to remember reading that.

charnees, if you have enough miles and some flexibility you should be able to get awards for your itinerary with some patience and perseverance. I am happy to to help, though, if you need it.

Good luck!
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Old Dec 1st, 2011, 03:37 PM
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Just discovered that KLM only releases ff seats ten months in advance. Not 330 days
Ike the others. No wonder I could not find the seats I was looking for!
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