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British Airways vs. Air France from Boston to Malaga

British Airways vs. Air France from Boston to Malaga

Old Aug 4th, 2002, 04:48 AM
  #1  
prwood
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British Airways vs. Air France from Boston to Malaga

My fiancee and I are planning our honeymoon trip to Malaga, Spain. We need to get from Boston (BOS) to Malaga (AGP) We have two major options, so it seems: British Airways from Boston/Logan -> London/Heathrow (via GB Airways) -> Malaga, or on Air France from Boston/Logan -> Paris/Charles DeGaulle -> Malaga. The ticket cost is roughly the same, the timetables are roughly the same, so it really comes down to which airline would be more pleasurable to fly on for a trip of that length. Having not much experience with international flights, any opinions or advice would be apprecited. Or if there is a better alternative that we have not even considered, that would be appreciated as well.
 
Old Aug 4th, 2002, 11:48 AM
  #2  
Andre
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prwood,

Oh my, there are numerous other alternatives for your trip! These would all be basically equivalent:
- KLM/Northwest via Amsterdam
- Lufthansa/United via Frankfurt
- Swiss/AA via Zurich
- Delta codesharing on the same flights as Air France

Where I mentioned 2 airlines codesharing on a route with a "/", you should check both carriers in order to find the best price as there can be substantial differences, even on the exact same flights!

IMO inflight service is roughly equivalent on all these airlines: you can be lucky and have a decent flight - or not.

If AF and BA are indeed your best bets for schedule and price, I would probably choose Air France, as you can accrue Delta FF miles on those flights, while BA isn't allowed to credit your AA frequent flyer account for antitrust reasons.

However, people tend to find connecting at CDG more confusing than LHR. I don't think this is a major issue - just DON'T book a connection with less than 90 minutes layover! 2 hours is even better. Don't let a stupid airline sales agent tell you that 60 minutes is enough time!!

Hope this helps,
Andre
 
Old Aug 4th, 2002, 01:41 PM
  #3  
prwood
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Thanks for the information! We really appreciate any advice. Especially the advice on layovers. We were about to book a flight with about an hour layover, but I don't think we will, now. Although we'd rather get to Spain sooner, I guess having a longer layover would make transfers easier. This is our first time arranging an overseas trip on our own, so again, thanks for any advice.
 
Old Aug 4th, 2002, 01:56 PM
  #4  
prwood
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P.S.

We really have no reason to prefer BA or AF - we are completely open to taking any airline or service to get from Boston to Malaga. Those are just the ones I came up with from the few travel search engines I know about. Thanks!
 
Old Aug 4th, 2002, 02:32 PM
  #5  
Andre
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You're welcome!

I'm not surprised about the too-short layover time - it's a ploy the airlines use to shorten the total journey time.

You'll see lots of message on the Europe forum from people who missed their connections - remember that you need to clear immigration when you arrive in Europe (except in Zurich), then hike to the gate for your next flight- this all takes TIME. Your luggage will be checked through to Malaga though.

I must confess that my previous posts was way too optimistic: KLM doesn't fly to Malaga (hence neither does NWA). Also, none of the US airlines I mention codeshares to Malaga - how odd! Finally, the schedules on Swiss don't make any sense for you.

That really only leaves Lufthansa as another alternative.

Again, I think your criteria for choice (if schedule convenience is the same) should be frequent flyer miles. If you live in BOS (a Delta hub I think), Air France is a better bet. Otherwise, you can get United miles on Lufthansa. As mentioned, AA cannot credit miles for transatlantic segments flown on BA.

Finally, if you already have enough miles with one of these programs to upgrade to business class, do it! Transatlantic biz class is a MAJOR improvement over coach.

Buen viaje!
Andre
 
Old Aug 4th, 2002, 06:46 PM
  #6  
prwood
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Thanks again.

We don't have much in the way of frequent flier miles, so that's not really going to factor in. I only have some on US Airways since I do most of my flying within the eastern USA. I don't think they'll be very helpful for me going overseas.

Malaga is definitely not one of the more-serviced destinations. Madrid has lots of flights, so we had thought of flying to Madrid, and then getting a train, bus, or renting a car and driving to Malaga. But that would add a looooong trip over land, and seeing as we are flying out on our wedding night... we don't want to be waiting around to get to the hotel any longer than we have to. ;-)

So it looks like Air France might be a good idea, because we can start up a frequent flier account which we can then use on domestic flights as well. Mainly, though, we are looking for an airline that offers courteous, efficient service to its passengers, with a minimum of hassle. Between British Airways, and Air France, does one over the other have a better reputation for pleasing its customers? It's our honeymoon, and though I do have a decent amount of money set aside for tickets, we can't really afford first or biz class... so the airline with the best economy service would be what we want.
 
Old Aug 5th, 2002, 10:06 AM
  #7  
prwood
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Here's a possible itinerary from Boston to Malaga on Air France. For the return flight, there was only one choice. For the originating flight, I could have chosen a connecting flight to Malaga that departed later, which would give me a 5 hour layover at CDG as opposed to the 55 minute one. But I think that I would rather rush to catch my connecting flight than sit around in an airport for five hours. Comments or other suggestions are welcome.

10/26/02
Air France flight 321
Dep: BOS @ 8:05 p.m.
Arr: CDG @ 7:55 a.m. (+1 day)
Air France flight 1730
Dep: CDG @ 8:50 a.m. (55 minute layover)
Arr: AGP @ 11:20 a.m.

11/02/02
Air France flight 1731
Dep: AGP @ 12:15 p.m.
Arr: CDG @ 2:50 p.m.
Air France flight 322
Dep: CDG @ 3:55 p.m. (65 minute layover)
Arr: BOS @ 5:45 p.m.

 
Old Aug 6th, 2002, 10:04 AM
  #8  
Andre
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prwood,

Am I a bad teacher or are you a bad student?

Those layovers are WAY too short, especially on your return journey given that you'd be taking the only CDG-BOS flight of the day! Or do you want to get stranded in Paris - there are worse places... but you'd be without your bags and you said you wanted hassle-free. So IMO Air France is unfortunately not an option.

You're far better off on BA, but ONLY IF you can depart on the 25th or 28th - the connection is terrible on the 26th, as it requires you to change airports in London.

So your itinerary would be:

10/25 or 10/28:
BA 212 BOS 18h05 - LHR 5h30
BA 6982 LHR 7h50 - AGP 11:40
Total jouney time: 11hrs 35min

11/20:
BA 6983 AGP 12h30 - LHR 14h20
BA 215 LHR 15h45 - AGP 18h25
Total journey time: 11hrs 55min

The additional bonus is that if you miss your connection in spite of it all, there are later flights (in both directions).

I checked Lufthansa, but the connections on 10/26 are pathetic as well.

So, I would take BA and move my departure date to a weekday.

Also BA have a fourth cabin on their long haul flights called "World Traveller Plus" with nicer seats, more legroom etc. than "normal" economy. Never tried it, so can't say if it's worth the extra $$. You can check details out at their web site. I would mention I was on my honeymoon at check-in, you never know...

Oh yes, I just found out that you can get FF mileage credits for BA on America West's program - yes I know, but you can use your miles on their other partners like NW as well (although Continental is leaving the program).

Enjoy your trip - I'll be in Andalucia in September and will post a trip report on the Europe board (I promise).

Andre
 
Old Aug 6th, 2002, 10:38 AM
  #9  
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Note hta the 55 minute connection in Paris is an "illegal" one. The published Minimum Connecting Time is 60 minutes. I don't know all the implications but I understand that it is "illegal" for Air France to issue the ticket like that and that, if they do, you forfeit certain legal protections. Perhaps a travel agent can explain (or not as these restrictions are a 'trick of the trade').
 
Old Aug 8th, 2002, 07:41 AM
  #10  
prwood
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Hi Andre,

Unfortunately I have a very tight timetable to work with. I am getting married on October 26, a Saturday, so I cannot leave before that date. Also, I will be staying in a timeshare which has Saturday to Saturday booking only (Saturday October 26 to Saturday November 2), so I am already missing a day and a half of my stay there. Leaving later than I already have planned would just make us miss another day and a half of our timeshare. So unfortunately I am pretty much locked into this tight timetable.

Regarding the 'illegal' connecting times. I spoke with Air France on the phone and they informed me that the legal minimum time is 45 minutes. Were they lying to me?

My fiancee and I are the "adventurous" type, so if we did get stranded in CDG, even overnight, we would think of it as an "adventure" rather than a "frustration" or an "inconvenience" as others might be inclined to do...
 
Old Aug 8th, 2002, 10:59 AM
  #11  
Andre
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Hi prwood,

I'm posting this in 2 parts because it's a little long

Given your time frame, I would also take AF (I mistakenly plugged in your return date as 11/20, so I thought you were taking a nice long trip - sorry about that).

Now the good news is that when I plug in your route for 10/26 on the Air France site, I'm getting A LOT more connections than a few days ago: they seem to have added a second later flight from CDG to AGP on 10/26 (or the web site wasn't working right before)! AF 2130 leaves CDG for AGP @ 12h35, so you really should have no problem making it to Malaga.

I'm more concerned about your return though. While you have slightly more time to make your connection, intra-Europe flights are often delayed...That said, if you miss your flight to BOS, you will probably be rebooked on a later plane to JFK, with an onward connection to BOS.

Disregard the crazed post about "legal" connection times - there's nothing legal or illegal about connections. Yes, these are listed connections, but as I told you, the airlines routinely list connections with very short layovers because they know people mostly look at the total journey time when they book.

In any event, if you are renting a car you should take along the phone number for the company's Malaga airport counter, in order to tell them when you will be arriving should your plans change...

Continued below
 
Old Aug 8th, 2002, 11:01 AM
  #12  
Andre
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Finally, here's a little free primer on how to best navigate the maze at CDG in order to make that connection:

- First of all, you can disregard the information AF gives about the terminal at which you will arrive. Long-haul flights dock at terminals 2A, 2C or 2F depending on where the plane is headed next, so it's a total crapshoot. Same thing for flights from EU (Schengen) countries. which dock at terminals 2D or 2F. The flight crew always announces the terminal the plane will be using as it's taxiing to the gate.

- check the airport web site (www.adp.fr) to get a better idea of the terminal layout. The following link (only accessible from the French portion of the site) shows you the landside shuttle bus service:
http://www.adp.fr/webadp/a_cont01.nsf/0/7D6D3B8F4EDA9373C1256B1F0059E5CB/$File/NavCDGj.gif?OpenElement

- If you're lucky, there will actually be an AF hostess holding a little sign with your connecting flight number & destination waiting as you get off the plane. Obviously, all you need to do is follow her to the other gate.

If nobody is there to "meet and guide" you, here's what to do:

- On the way to Spain, your onward flight TO AGP will leave from terminal 2F. If you're lucky (again...), you will have docked there as well and will simply need to go through immigration and head to the domestic/EU concourse.
If you land at terminal 2C, you can either walk or take a shuttle bus (recommend the latter). From 2A I would definitely take a shuttle bus. In any event, DO NOT follow the connection signs right when you get off the plane at 2A or 2C (this takes you to an airside shuttle bus which is useless)! Instead head for the exit, go through immigration and walk through the bagage claim area (this is a very short walk).

You will now be in the public area of terminal A or C. If you turn right and start walking, you will get to the train station and beyond that to terminal 2F. However, it's a lot easier IMO to take one of the numerous free ADP shuttles which leave from several different exits and take you to terminal 2F in 1 or 2 stops (see the link above for route maps).

- On your return trip, if you're lucky you will dock at 2D. Simply head for the exit, walking through bagage claim, then turn right. You will get to a down escalator which takes you to an underground passageway linking you to terminal 2C (where your flight to BOS leaves from). If you land at 2F, you can either take the long walk to 2C through the train station (see above), or take a shuttle to 2D and take the underground passageway (depending on which shuttle line you take, you could also stay on the bus till it reached 2C, but this would take longer).

Congratulations on your wedding and have a great time!

Andre
 
Old Aug 8th, 2002, 11:16 AM
  #13  
prwood
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Andre:

Thanks very much for your expert advice. We will definitely keep it (and you) in mind when we are traveling! We will take some pictures and post about our trip here when we return. .

I was talking to one co-worker who recently flew from Boston -> Paris -> Vienna on Air France. She had an absolute horror story about her connection there at CDG. Apparently it took her 40 minutes to go through customs upon arriving at CDG, then she had to take a bus to another location to get her connecting flight to Vienna. She ended up missing the flight, and had to wait around for half of the day to get another flight to Vienna.

On the way back from Vienna -> Paris -> Boston, it was a different story. Her flight from Vienna was late, and the Air France flight actually waited an hour and a half for everyone to get on the plane. She says that they would rather wait for straggling passengers than put people up in a hotel overnight because they missed their connection. Any thoughts on that?
 
Old Aug 8th, 2002, 11:35 AM
  #14  
Andre
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prwood,

I'm not that surprised by your co-worker's story - but it sounds like things worked out pretty much OK for her in the end.

In any event, I think she must have been referring to a wait at immigration, not customs. Indeed, if you're unlucky, 2 or 3 jumbo jets could have landed at almost the same time and it's an absolute zoo - but then you'll just be rebooked on the later flight. And on your return flight I also think you will make it to BOS somehow (perhaps with an connection in NY).

I try to avoid short connections like these because I don't like the stressful feeling of just making or missing my next flight. Also, the likelihod of lost luggage is dramatically increased.

These are common stories and you will hear them for all airlines. CDG can be somewhat confusing to navigate, so that's an added difficulty - but IMO Air France is one of the better airlines these days. Bite the bullet and remember that you'll get there eventually!

Andre
 
Old Aug 8th, 2002, 12:05 PM
  #15  
prwood
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It may have been immigration, I don't know the terminology. I've never even been out of the USA before and in fact just got my passport a few weeks ago!

We will do our best, try to take all the tips into account, and enjoy the time we spend together. The two of us recently took a driving trip from Boston to St. Petersburg, Florida for a friend's wedding... the longest leg of the trip was 20 hours straight in the car. If we can put up with each other for that long in an enclosed space, I think we will be able to do it on a flight to Europe, even if we do get bumped around or delayed. (offtopic, but the photos from said car trip are located here: http://prwdot.org/gallery/view_album...umName=album80 ...so you can see the cute couple. This is the same gallery in which our wedding and honeymoon photos will be located when we get back...)
 
Old Aug 8th, 2002, 12:22 PM
  #16  
If you're think of BA
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Last year, I was pricing flights to Malaga and I looked at flying into Gibraltar. Lo & behold, there was a significant price difference. Since we were thinking of renting a car anyway, we seriously considered it as an option.
 
Old Aug 8th, 2002, 12:39 PM
  #17  
prwood
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Gibraltar! I didn't even think of it. Interesting option. How long of a drive is it from there to Malaga? (Specifically, Marbella...) It's a bit late now as we have already purchased plane tickets to Malaga and have had reservations at a timeshare in Marbella for quite some time now. But we may still try to visit Gibraltar while we are in Spain.
 
Old Aug 9th, 2002, 11:57 AM
  #18  
Andre
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prwood,

Don't feel bad, from what I've heard the border crossing at Gibraltar can be hell, not something I would look forward to after a long journey or on the way back if I had a flight to catch.

I have only received negative feedback about visiting Gibraltar from various friends who've been there and the consensus on the Europe board seems to be that it's not worth it.

Andre
 
Old Aug 10th, 2002, 05:13 AM
  #19  
changedourminds
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We were considering a timeshare exchange to Marbella at the time. We'd still like to go (maybe 2004). Out of curiosity, which resort did you pick?

Thanks Andre, flying into Gilbraltar was cheaper but given your comment, we'll stick with Malaga when we go.
 
Old Aug 12th, 2002, 05:32 AM
  #20  
prwood
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Re: timeshare exchange in Marbella

We picked the Atlantic Club Reserva de Marbella. Looks to be very nice, it's made up of two-story apartments, living room, dining room, furnished kitchen on the first floor; bedroom, bathroom, and private terrace on the second floor.

For more info: http://www.atlanticclub-hoteles.com/reserva_uk.htm
 

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