Thinking of going to Egypt?
Dec 28th, 2011, 04:53 AM
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Thinking of going to Egypt?
If you are thinking of going to Egypt, this is not necessarily the best place to get advice.
Get advice from your government, and from other places on the web. Too many people here are not taking into consideration how bad things can get when thousands of people start to riot. No one will be there to protect you if you are caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. Start with this video of what the rioters did to the Egyptian Scientific Institute where historical documents were kept and studied for centuries:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=6Dqee41JFhI
I'm only telling you truthfully what I think. Your decision is your responsibility.
Get advice from your government, and from other places on the web. Too many people here are not taking into consideration how bad things can get when thousands of people start to riot. No one will be there to protect you if you are caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. Start with this video of what the rioters did to the Egyptian Scientific Institute where historical documents were kept and studied for centuries:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=6Dqee41JFhI
I'm only telling you truthfully what I think. Your decision is your responsibility.
Dec 28th, 2011, 07:59 AM
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What tinydancer is NOT taking into consideration is that it is SO EASY to stay away from these places. You really would have to TRY to be part of it, and if you are not interested in death or danger, it's probably a good idea to just stay away from the protest areas. It's not like a combustible protest or riot break out anywhere in the city at any time. They ARE ONLY happening in specific areas and it is NOT difficult to find out where those areas are so you can plan your day to be somewhere else.
If you are hesitant to come to Egypt now, maybe it's best to visit another destination this time. If you want to come though, don't buy into everything the news is showning - it is really only showing a very small select area of town that is avoidable. Many many tourists have been here in 2011 that can tell you they felt fine while here. I think you don't even need to listen to me or anyone else that lives here unless you want to - instead see what tourists that have been here say. (P.S. Journalists don't count as tourists - their job is to find the sensational side of the story and what they are reporting is not exactly balanced - it's sensational!)
If you are hesitant to come to Egypt now, maybe it's best to visit another destination this time. If you want to come though, don't buy into everything the news is showning - it is really only showing a very small select area of town that is avoidable. Many many tourists have been here in 2011 that can tell you they felt fine while here. I think you don't even need to listen to me or anyone else that lives here unless you want to - instead see what tourists that have been here say. (P.S. Journalists don't count as tourists - their job is to find the sensational side of the story and what they are reporting is not exactly balanced - it's sensational!)
Dec 28th, 2011, 10:35 AM
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All I can say is, thank you all for not coming to Egypt, as it is fantastic to see all these amazing sites without the crowds. We're in Luxor now. In the Valley of the King's, we were the only people in some of the tombs we visited (though it became busier later on, still not crowded).
People who have cancelled their trips are wrong. I feel sorry for all the hard-working locals who depend on the tourist trade.
People who have cancelled their trips are wrong. I feel sorry for all the hard-working locals who depend on the tourist trade.
Dec 28th, 2011, 03:08 PM
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To say "people who have cancelled their trips are wrong" does not take into account the most important thing...if you are not comfortable going with the situation as it is and will be for many months then cancelling or not planning a trip is perfectly right for you. Each traveler has their own comfort level. No one is wrong!
Dec 28th, 2011, 04:53 PM
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<<All I can say is, thank you all for not coming to Egypt, as it is fantastic to see all these amazing sites without the crowds.>>
Ditto! That is how we were in November after 9/11. We had all of Luxor to ourselves and it was incredible. But - it was NOT great for the Egyptian people who rely on tourists to feed their families. It was heartbreaking.
If you were "hesitant" to visit Egypt before the revolution (as many people are), then perhaps this is not the best time to visit. But for those more experienced, more adventurous, and more comfortable with the Middle East - go for it! Great time to be there.
Ditto! That is how we were in November after 9/11. We had all of Luxor to ourselves and it was incredible. But - it was NOT great for the Egyptian people who rely on tourists to feed their families. It was heartbreaking.
If you were "hesitant" to visit Egypt before the revolution (as many people are), then perhaps this is not the best time to visit. But for those more experienced, more adventurous, and more comfortable with the Middle East - go for it! Great time to be there.
Dec 28th, 2011, 05:10 PM
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Let's consider our sources of information:
Casual Cairo currently lives in Egypt,
Grcxx3 lived there for several years,
Tulips is there right now.
These three all say it's perfectly safe, and I trust their knowledge a lot more than someone who only gets their information from the news. Everyone has to make the choice that suits him/her the best, but personally I would not cancel any plans for travel to Egypt. I only wish I had such plans.
Casual Cairo currently lives in Egypt,
Grcxx3 lived there for several years,
Tulips is there right now.
These three all say it's perfectly safe, and I trust their knowledge a lot more than someone who only gets their information from the news. Everyone has to make the choice that suits him/her the best, but personally I would not cancel any plans for travel to Egypt. I only wish I had such plans.
Dec 30th, 2011, 08:03 AM
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We have been watching Egypt for the past year, considering a visit. Like others, I would love to be there without hordes of other tourists. I have been in locations during riots (Kenya, Thailand) and it wasn't especially upsetting. Having said that, I have seen no significant drop in pricing for Egypt during this down time. While I do feel sympathy for those who's livelihood depends on tourism -- as a tourist, I am looking to take advantage of less than ideale travel times for bargains. We often travel during "shoulder" season for example, to take advantage of less than ideale weather. However,we enjoy a significant reduction in pricing for doing so.
I may be wrong, but it appears that those who are willing to travel to Egypt now, are considered prime candidates to pick up the monetary slack in overall trade. I have also always been turned off by the agressive Egyptian custom of Baksheesh. With tourists numbers greatly diminished, I fear that this "custom" would be unbearably overwhelming.
My current observation is that there isn't enough monetary incentive to risk the cancellation or disruption of an expensive holiday in Egypt due to political unrest. Trip insurance only goes so far. There are many regrettable instances that would not be covered by insurance -- rerouting of itineraries, change of equipment (cruise boats) or closures of certain attractions -- to name but a few.
I may be wrong, but it appears that those who are willing to travel to Egypt now, are considered prime candidates to pick up the monetary slack in overall trade. I have also always been turned off by the agressive Egyptian custom of Baksheesh. With tourists numbers greatly diminished, I fear that this "custom" would be unbearably overwhelming.
My current observation is that there isn't enough monetary incentive to risk the cancellation or disruption of an expensive holiday in Egypt due to political unrest. Trip insurance only goes so far. There are many regrettable instances that would not be covered by insurance -- rerouting of itineraries, change of equipment (cruise boats) or closures of certain attractions -- to name but a few.
Dec 30th, 2011, 08:22 AM
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<<<People who have cancelled their trips are wrong. I feel sorry for all the hard-working locals who depend on the tourist trade.>>>
I don't agree with that sentiment. If you're not comfortable, you're not comfortable. Some people are terrified of flying and even though I can put forth 10,000 reasons why that's statistically silly, they're still afraid and don't enjoy it. Just because the locals suffer from the lack of tourists, doesn't mean that someone should be pressured to spend their vacation budget somewhere that makes them uncomfortable.
If I had the vacation time and budget, I'd definitely be there. However, I've also been there once and have memories of how friendly the people were. It's hard to be afraid of the entire country when the problems (protests, riots, etc) are fairly limited in area and should be easy to avoid by paying attention.
<<<If you are thinking of going to Egypt, this is not necessarily the best place to get advice.>>>
I would disagree with that as well. The job of the news is to get peoples attention and what gets more attention... a riot or tourists and locals going peacefully about their days? The job of the government is to keep people safe. They have to play it super cautious because otherwise some numbnut is going to walk directly into the middle of a riot and then say "but the government said it was safe!" The job of the people here is to report on their experiences. A poster here (and on other travel forums) has no real reason to give a false trip report. If they enjoyed it and felt safe then there's little reason to believe that someone else can't visit those same locations and feel safe.
Trip insurance should be an automatic thing for a trip like this, but be sure to check the fine print. Insurance can't fix everything but it can minimize your losses and allow you to go to Plan B if things change drastically.
I don't agree with that sentiment. If you're not comfortable, you're not comfortable. Some people are terrified of flying and even though I can put forth 10,000 reasons why that's statistically silly, they're still afraid and don't enjoy it. Just because the locals suffer from the lack of tourists, doesn't mean that someone should be pressured to spend their vacation budget somewhere that makes them uncomfortable.
If I had the vacation time and budget, I'd definitely be there. However, I've also been there once and have memories of how friendly the people were. It's hard to be afraid of the entire country when the problems (protests, riots, etc) are fairly limited in area and should be easy to avoid by paying attention.
<<<If you are thinking of going to Egypt, this is not necessarily the best place to get advice.>>>
I would disagree with that as well. The job of the news is to get peoples attention and what gets more attention... a riot or tourists and locals going peacefully about their days? The job of the government is to keep people safe. They have to play it super cautious because otherwise some numbnut is going to walk directly into the middle of a riot and then say "but the government said it was safe!" The job of the people here is to report on their experiences. A poster here (and on other travel forums) has no real reason to give a false trip report. If they enjoyed it and felt safe then there's little reason to believe that someone else can't visit those same locations and feel safe.
Trip insurance should be an automatic thing for a trip like this, but be sure to check the fine print. Insurance can't fix everything but it can minimize your losses and allow you to go to Plan B if things change drastically.
Dec 30th, 2011, 08:28 AM
#9
Tinydancer was on these forums a whileago spreading the "fear" of visiting Egypt. Don't know what she has against Egypt to go to all the trouble to bring this up again.
The media makes a much bigger deal of these things than it is in reality. I have friends who just came back from a wonderful 16 day trip to Egypt and they said if they hadn't seen it on the news, they wouldn't have known there were any issues there.
Tour companies won't take you to dangerous areas.
The media makes a much bigger deal of these things than it is in reality. I have friends who just came back from a wonderful 16 day trip to Egypt and they said if they hadn't seen it on the news, they wouldn't have known there were any issues there.
Tour companies won't take you to dangerous areas.
Dec 30th, 2011, 08:42 AM
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Red, I agree with your comments about people doing what they feel comfortable doing. Here's my take:
<i>'The job of the news is to get peoples attention and what gets more attention... a riot or tourists and locals going peacefully about their days?'</i>
-RIOTS
<I>'The job of the government is to keep people safe.'</I>
-THERE IS NO UNIFIED <U>STABLE</U> GOVERNMENT CURRENTLY....NOT TO MENTION THAT WHAT GOVERNMENT THERE IS HAS A LOT MORE ON THEIR PLATE THAN THE FATE OF A COUPLE OF TOURISTS IN THE WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME.
<i>'The job of the people here is to report on their experiences.'</I>
-HOWEVER, WHAT IS OK ONE DAY MAY NOT BE OK THE NEXT.
<I>'A poster here (and on other travel forums) has no real reason to give a false trip report.'</I>
-UNLESS THEY HAVE A VESTED INTEREST -- SUCH AS LIVING OR WORKING IN EGYPT.
<I>'If they enjoyed it and felt safe then there's little reason to believe that someone else can't visit those same locations and feel safe.'</I>
-AGAIN....THE POLITICAL CLIMATE IS CHANGING TOO FAST FOR THIS TO BE A CERTAINTY.
<I>'Trip insurance....allows you to go to Plan B"</i>
-I JUST DON'T WANT TO RISK GETTING A PLAN "B" HOLIDAY WHEN I'VE PAID FOR PLAN "A".
<i>'The job of the news is to get peoples attention and what gets more attention... a riot or tourists and locals going peacefully about their days?'</i>
-RIOTS
<I>'The job of the government is to keep people safe.'</I>
-THERE IS NO UNIFIED <U>STABLE</U> GOVERNMENT CURRENTLY....NOT TO MENTION THAT WHAT GOVERNMENT THERE IS HAS A LOT MORE ON THEIR PLATE THAN THE FATE OF A COUPLE OF TOURISTS IN THE WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME.
<i>'The job of the people here is to report on their experiences.'</I>
-HOWEVER, WHAT IS OK ONE DAY MAY NOT BE OK THE NEXT.
<I>'A poster here (and on other travel forums) has no real reason to give a false trip report.'</I>
-UNLESS THEY HAVE A VESTED INTEREST -- SUCH AS LIVING OR WORKING IN EGYPT.
<I>'If they enjoyed it and felt safe then there's little reason to believe that someone else can't visit those same locations and feel safe.'</I>
-AGAIN....THE POLITICAL CLIMATE IS CHANGING TOO FAST FOR THIS TO BE A CERTAINTY.
<I>'Trip insurance....allows you to go to Plan B"</i>
-I JUST DON'T WANT TO RISK GETTING A PLAN "B" HOLIDAY WHEN I'VE PAID FOR PLAN "A".
Dec 30th, 2011, 11:01 AM
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TC,
I meant the job of other governments, such as the US and UK, is to keep their citizens safe. They give warnings often as a CYA than as realistic info. They have to play it extremely safe. I've gone to many countries with government warnings and never felt unsafe in the least.
<<<THE POLITICAL CLIMATE IS CHANGING TOO FAST FOR THIS TO BE A CERTAINTY.>>>
If anyone promised you a certainty of any kind, you should beware. Absolutely nothing in life is certain and expecting that is just going to leave you horribly disappointed. Of course things change day to day, but that's why you pay attention to what's going on and never be to proud to say "I'm not comfortable with that idea, let's do something else".
Of course it sucks to get all excited for one vacation and end up not being comfortable going, but if you wait until something is 100% safe and "certain" then you'll miss out on a lot of wonderful experiences.
I meant the job of other governments, such as the US and UK, is to keep their citizens safe. They give warnings often as a CYA than as realistic info. They have to play it extremely safe. I've gone to many countries with government warnings and never felt unsafe in the least.
<<<THE POLITICAL CLIMATE IS CHANGING TOO FAST FOR THIS TO BE A CERTAINTY.>>>
If anyone promised you a certainty of any kind, you should beware. Absolutely nothing in life is certain and expecting that is just going to leave you horribly disappointed. Of course things change day to day, but that's why you pay attention to what's going on and never be to proud to say "I'm not comfortable with that idea, let's do something else".
Of course it sucks to get all excited for one vacation and end up not being comfortable going, but if you wait until something is 100% safe and "certain" then you'll miss out on a lot of wonderful experiences.
Dec 30th, 2011, 11:24 AM
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Thanks, Red. All good advice for novice travelers. However, you will never see me staying home to be 100% certain of anything. I was one of the first people back in the air after 9/11. I was one of the first to visit Kenya and Tanzania after the bombing of the Embassies there. I was in Thailand during the last coup. I have literally traveled the world and done things that most of my friends think I need my head examined for doing. But.....I do a lot of research, take calculated risks and want a lot of value for my effort. Right now Egypt just doesn't quite fill the bill.
Dec 30th, 2011, 04:23 PM
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<<A poster here (and on other travel forums) has no real reason to give a false trip report.'
-UNLESS THEY HAVE A VESTED INTEREST -- SUCH AS LIVING OR WORKING IN EGYPT.>>
TC - Don't know exactly what your referring to here, but why would someone living there have a "vested interest" in giving a false trip report?
And as for Casual_Cairo making comments as to the situation in Egypt, it would be STUPID on her part to pretend nothing is happening there (talk about shooting her business in the foot). She plainly acknowledges that things are going on, but also clearly states that "...it is SO EASY to stay away from these places. You really would have to TRY to be part of it,..." She also very clearly states "If you are hesitant to come to Egypt now, maybe it's best to visit another destination this time." Seems like pretty fair-minded advice.
----------------
<<These three all say it's perfectly safe, and I trust their knowledge a lot more than someone who only gets their information from the news.>>
P_M - LOL! I love your confidence in us, but I don't think I could ever consider anyplace "perfectly safe." Ever. But, I agree with C_C that what is happening in Cairo is easily avoided and would not keep me from traveling there.
--------------------
<<While I do feel sympathy for those who's livelihood depends on tourism -- as a tourist, I am looking to take advantage of less than ideale travel times for bargains.>>
Maybe it's just me, but I hardly equate what has happened in Egypt the past year with less that wonderful weather with respect to seeking travel bargains.
-UNLESS THEY HAVE A VESTED INTEREST -- SUCH AS LIVING OR WORKING IN EGYPT.>>
TC - Don't know exactly what your referring to here, but why would someone living there have a "vested interest" in giving a false trip report?
And as for Casual_Cairo making comments as to the situation in Egypt, it would be STUPID on her part to pretend nothing is happening there (talk about shooting her business in the foot). She plainly acknowledges that things are going on, but also clearly states that "...it is SO EASY to stay away from these places. You really would have to TRY to be part of it,..." She also very clearly states "If you are hesitant to come to Egypt now, maybe it's best to visit another destination this time." Seems like pretty fair-minded advice.
----------------
<<These three all say it's perfectly safe, and I trust their knowledge a lot more than someone who only gets their information from the news.>>
P_M - LOL! I love your confidence in us, but I don't think I could ever consider anyplace "perfectly safe." Ever. But, I agree with C_C that what is happening in Cairo is easily avoided and would not keep me from traveling there.
--------------------
<<While I do feel sympathy for those who's livelihood depends on tourism -- as a tourist, I am looking to take advantage of less than ideale travel times for bargains.>>
Maybe it's just me, but I hardly equate what has happened in Egypt the past year with less that wonderful weather with respect to seeking travel bargains.
Dec 30th, 2011, 08:09 PM
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I have no quarrel with Casual Cairo and did not make any accusations regarding her posts. The poster implied that there is no reason for anyone to <u>ever</u> give an inaccurate accounting. I merely thought that somewhat naive outlook required clarification. It is not unheard of for ANY person, in ANY location to over glamorize a place or a situation for the benefit of acquiring trade...especially if they have a vested interest in that trade. I'm not saying that any of the posters here are doing that regarding Egypt. But it has been done -- somewhere -- sometime -- by someone.
Trip reports are only ONE traveler's experience, at ONE point in time. Things can and do change.
As for pricing; political unrest diminishes demand--diminished demand should reduce pricing. It's the logic of consumerism.
Trip reports are only ONE traveler's experience, at ONE point in time. Things can and do change.
As for pricing; political unrest diminishes demand--diminished demand should reduce pricing. It's the logic of consumerism.
Dec 30th, 2011, 10:50 PM
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TC said: As for pricing; political unrest diminishes demand--diminished demand should reduce pricing. It's the logic of consumerism.
I guess you are new to Egypt, ey? We call it the "Logic Free Zone".
That statement applies in MANY areas - NOT just their marketing and sales skills.
I guess you are new to Egypt, ey? We call it the "Logic Free Zone".
That statement applies in MANY areas - NOT just their marketing and sales skills.
Dec 31st, 2011, 01:18 AM
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Everyone has to decide for themselves what they are comfortable with. I respect Casual Cairo's opinion, as she lives here. I can only comment that it is wonderful being here, even with people trying to sell you things everywhere. They are persistent, but not threatening in any way. Just trying to make a living.
Sure, we could have stayed at home in the rain and cold. I'm glad we didn't.
Sure, we could have stayed at home in the rain and cold. I'm glad we didn't.
