goconts2000

I will be honest, I am not much of a traveller. My fiancee on the other hand is. For our honeymoon, she has booked us to travel to South Africa to go on Safari and then to Capetown. I have been reading about all of the attacks on foreigners and wanted to know if you think we should still go.

LAleslie

Did you read the stories or just the headlines? These "foreigners" who've been attacked are not tourists but fellow Africans--mostly Zimbabweans and Mozambiquans--who've come to South Africa for work or to escape brutal conditions. No worries, other than the petty tourist crimes, like theft, found in much of the world these days.

goconts2000

I did read the articles but I was unsure what foreign nationals meant and also unsure about how they would differentiate between tourists and foreign nationals. I am sorry if I seem naive, just want to make sure as I am an uneasy traveller.

LAleslie

Go, and rest easy. These attacks are on local neighborhoods, against black immigrants from neighboring countries, people who have fled the economic and political woes of, say, Zimbabawe, and need to feed their families and escape violence. It's a tragedy, but you won't witness it in the tourist areas or on safari. They welcome you because you're spending money. But do get a good guidebook and avoid the dicier areas, especially at night, just as you would in any big city. Cape Town is gorgeous, and you may be amazed at how fantastic--and easy--a safari is.
Leslie

atravelynn

I will be going to Cape Town in July for over a week and these reports do not deter me. There might be other types of violence directed at tourists that would make me change plans.

Tourists can be differentiated from those fleeing instability in their homeland by where you are staying and the fact that you are spending money in restaurants, etc. and not looking for work. Also your clothes, accent, appearance, etc.

Have a fantastic trip, Goconts2000.

Eli

goconts, to be on the safe side, always carry your passport with you. Be sure to present it before the final blow of the machete comes down...

sniktawk

Eli,

What a cheery chap you are, you should get out more!

Eli

Sorry Sniktawk, no harm meant. It’s just the rationale that made me blow a fuse.
“…only Zimbabweans… only Mozambiquans…” What next? when they start attacking left handed people, then it will be OK since
we are right handed, right? An attack is an attack is an attack!

HariS

Here's an ignorant question - what sparked off these attacks? All the illegal immigrants have taken shelter for quite some time now, isn't it?

goconts2000

Hi Eli,

I do agree that an attack is an attack and that is why I am questioning going there. Whether it is an attack on tourists or foreign nationals, I don't know if I want to witness any of these atrocities or be there enjoying myself while innocent people are being murdered just blocks from where I am.

LAleslie

Hari, excellent question, why now. The reports I've read are that the nature of these attacks indicate they were orchestrated by someone, but no one yet knows who. But throughout history in countries having problems it's the outsiders that get blamed. Same thing going on in the U.S. but without the killing. Even sadder, and more ironic, that this is happening in South Africa, where non-whites were brutalized for so long.
Leslie

Province

ANC cabinet ministers at one stage implied that the Inkatha Freedom Party (IFP) orchestrated the attacks. This accusation was proven false when the attacks spread to provinces and townships where the IFP have zero presence or support. At one point the ANC also blamed the mythical "Third Force". They will blame everything and everyone rather than to admit that they are out of control of their own constituencies and that the situation is a direct result of their failed policies.

1. Their lack of action on Zimbabwe contributed to the implosion of that country, creating a situation where hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Zimbabweans wanted to get in to South Africa.

2. Their inability to police the borders enabled all those illegal immigrants to stream into the country. The presence of these immigrants created resentment among the South African black poor because suddenly they were competing for the same meager resources against a whole bunch of poor newcomers.

3. The inability to get control of the crime situation led people to think that they can do what they want, including mob violence, and get away with it.

No-one instigated this. It is a direct result of failed policies and inept government.

Province

O yes, and let met add that we are sitting with a lame duck and absent president. Just after I posted the previous, I surfed over to news24. This article beautifully encapsulates another part of the problem: "Where is President Mbeki?" http://tinyurl.com/6xblzw

atravelynn

Goconts2000,

Perhaps you are already reading these, but the AllAfrica site has news stories that might interest you.

http://allafrica.com/southafrica/

ca_vol

I would contact the US Embassy in South Africa and tell them which aread you are going and see what they say.

I recently wrote the US Embassy in Uganda. I explained that I knew they could not guarantee safety but wanted to know about the areas I would specifically be visiting. The US Embassy will give you the most conservative answer, so remember that.

There is a great deal of discussion about this on the tripadvisor.com South Africa forums also. Many more details by people who live there.

LAleslie

Province,
I agree with you on many points. Mbeki is embarassing, and if Zuma gets in....Well, any party that has as it's theme song "Bring Me My Machine Gun" can't be good. How sad for such a young democracy.

Goconts, these are politial travel decisions that people have to make on their own. The liklihood of your experiencing violence is probably nil, but if the mere presence of it bothers you, maybe this is not the place for you to go. A few months ago I would have still gone to Zimbabwe. Now, I won't. Sure, the loss of tourist dollars hurts innocent people, but at this point I can't in good conscience ignore what's going on there.
one more $.02 = $.04
Leslie

Momliz

Yup, I am a pretty experienced traveler, so violence in and of itself doesn't scare me, but your point about whether you would want to be a few blocks away while it is ongoing is excellent. We are supposed to be in Zim at Victoria Falls in December, and if things don't change between now and then, we will be across the river. A shame, because many innocent people are affected by that decision, but how in good conscience can I go to that country?

Doogle

I am really amazed at houw out od perspective things can be taken.
These attacks have taken place in informal settlements nowhere near where we take any tourists at all, there have been no attacks on tourists. It is tragic what is going on and even more sad to see the hardship that the people being attacked have had to cope with, however all the areas that are not shanty towns are safe.

Here is a newsletter for all your information:

Greetings from a place which is I know, special in your hearts!
Thank you to all who have expressed concern for our safety and sadness at what has happened here in the last ten days.
As many of the people who have visited South Africa in the recent past have read the reports of the violence and trouble we are experiencing and have felt concerned for the safety of people that they met whilst here, I felt that it would be a good idea to send out this letter updating you on what is happening and to ask for your assistance in helping the people most vulnerable and most effected by this tragedy – the children.
Through Friends of Alexandra we believe we can play a role in helping the +- 50 children who are being accommodated in the Police Station in Alexandra to protect them and their families from further violence.
But first let me try to update you in point form of the situation.
1. The violence started last Sunday (11th May) in Alexandra township.
2. It was reported to be violence as a result of Xenophobia & directed at immigrants who were taking the jobs of locals.
3. The violence continued in Alexandra every night last week.
4. Some South Africans in the township were also attacked.
5. Some reports indicate that criminals are now involved and that this has become an excuse for criminals to attack people and rob them.
6. The violence occurs at night. During the day, life has continued as normal.
7. My tours have continued into Alexandra after discussions with the Police Commissioner and last week I took over 60 people into Alexandra on three days and never witnessed an incident, nor felt threatened or in danger.
8. The violence has now spread to other townships and areas of extreme poverty. Once again the violence flares up at night. This weekend it spilled into the downtown area of Johannesburg, as well.
9. To date 42 people have been killed, hundreds wounded and thousands are seeking refuge and safety in Police Stations.

THE SITUATION NOW.
1. Last night was much more peaceful with the majority of townships having an uneventful night.
2. Reports on the radio this evening are that the Army is being called in by the Police to assist in controlling the violence.
3. Day times are peaceful in Alexandra- (I cannot speak of other areas, as I have not visited them)- I continue to take visitors there and Thursday & Friday I will be taking groups into Alexandra.

Today I visited the Police Station in Alexandra to see what the plight of the children was and what their short term needs are. This is what I found.
1. Men are being accommodated in tents outside the Police Station, sleeping on the pavements and tar, but under shelter. Water tankers are providing water. Toilets have been provided.
2. The men have no blankets or bedding of any sort.
3. Women and children are being accommodated in a hall upstairs in the Police Station. They have a roof over their heads and, like the men sleeping outside in marquees, are dependent upon NGO’s for everything else.
4. A total of about 800 people are being accommodated.
5. There are about 50 children ranging from babies in arms to children of about 14 years old.

HOW YOU CAN HELP “FRIENDS OF ALEXANDRA”.

The children need blankets, sleeping- bags, foam mattresses, food, and other obvious items.
We need to purchase these items quickly, and provide them to the children.
I spent this afternoon on the telephone to some of the larger companies who I thought would donate the urgently needed items quickly – (it is getting colder here and the weather forecast is for a drop in temperature. As you know we get down to freezing on a cold Winter’s night.)

My personal view is that the violence is a build up of frustration in the poorer communities as a result of unemployment, poverty, unfulfilled promises by Government and corruption. The immigrants are an easy scapegoat.
We will overcome this, as we have surmounted other and greater obstacles.
We are asking for your help for the children of Alexandra.
Warmest Regards.
Robin Binckes.

Lublin

All "foreign black immigrants in shanty towns", hear this:

http://www.saps.gov.za/crime_prevent.../hijacking.htm

annhig

Hi goconts,

yes, it is worrying to read these sorts of things, especially when you are about to go to the country in question.

however, you should ask yourself this:

is there violence in my country?

are there senseless murders in my country?

do I sleep nights?

this is not to be at all callous as the plight of the innocent people being persecuted in SA at present, but to put it in perspective. as others have said, it is highly unlikely that you will be affected in any way by the violence, which is confined to the townships. [and not a surprise to anyone who has seen the shanty towns that surround any town in SA].

indeed, the best thing you can do to help is to go to SA and spend your money.

doogle - thank you for posting that letter from Robin. if anyone here wanted to do so, how could they help the people now effectively trapped in police stations etc.?

regards, ann