Possible trip to SA May/June 07
Jun 8th, 2006, 05:03 AM
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Possible trip to SA May/June 07
I apologize for asking questions that I might be able to research but I am in a bit of a time crunch–pesky thing called work is interfering and depending on when we travel next year, I am approaching the 330 day mark to try to get FF tickets to Europe.
I had ruled out a trip to SA because of Capetown weather in May and June but some recent posts suggest that the last two weeks of May might be decent weather in Capetown, the Winelands, and the Garden Route–correct me if I have wrong please. [I realize not swimmable weather]
So here goes–mostly budget questions.
If I have to buy an economy ticket to SA from Amsterdam what should I expect to pay?
Are open jaw tickets (into Capetown, out of Jburg) available? Extra cost?
What should I expect to pay for a one way ticket between Capetown and Jburg?
Would $500-$600 per day (for 2 people, not pp) be OK to budget for Capetown, Winelands, Garden Route for food, accommodations, transportation, etc? If yes, what would you allocate for hotels? $200? What would that get me? What should I expect to pay for a rental car for a week?
For a 5 day safari in SA, where would you send me on a $350pppn budget? On a $500pppn budget? [Let me know about the cost of any internal flights please] BTW, I am not interested in self-driving in Kruger NP.
Thanks
P.S. We have done the northern circuit in TZ; have never been to SA
I had ruled out a trip to SA because of Capetown weather in May and June but some recent posts suggest that the last two weeks of May might be decent weather in Capetown, the Winelands, and the Garden Route–correct me if I have wrong please. [I realize not swimmable weather]
So here goes–mostly budget questions.
If I have to buy an economy ticket to SA from Amsterdam what should I expect to pay?
Are open jaw tickets (into Capetown, out of Jburg) available? Extra cost?
What should I expect to pay for a one way ticket between Capetown and Jburg?
Would $500-$600 per day (for 2 people, not pp) be OK to budget for Capetown, Winelands, Garden Route for food, accommodations, transportation, etc? If yes, what would you allocate for hotels? $200? What would that get me? What should I expect to pay for a rental car for a week?
For a 5 day safari in SA, where would you send me on a $350pppn budget? On a $500pppn budget? [Let me know about the cost of any internal flights please] BTW, I am not interested in self-driving in Kruger NP.
Thanks
P.S. We have done the northern circuit in TZ; have never been to SA
Jun 8th, 2006, 06:41 AM
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Right now the weather is really nice here in Cape Town and it's already June. But you never know about the weather here...we already had some heavy rain 2 weeks ago for a couple of days.
$500-600 per day for 2 persons should definitely be enough for accommodation, food and transport. There are numerous accommodations in Cape Town and along the Garden Route that aren't too expensive. Have a look at www.southafrica-stay.com for accommodation.
Otherwise, you could do a tour from Cape Town along the Garden Route with a tour service, e.g. Hylton Ross. They offer 4day tours along the Garden Route for approx. R4500 per person including accommodation. www.hyltonross.co.za
If you fly from Amsterdam i recommend KLM. www.klm.com Their tickets are normally not too expensive and I personally liked the service and entertainment options on board.
Inner flights in SA...have a look at www.kulula.com
$500-600 per day for 2 persons should definitely be enough for accommodation, food and transport. There are numerous accommodations in Cape Town and along the Garden Route that aren't too expensive. Have a look at www.southafrica-stay.com for accommodation.
Otherwise, you could do a tour from Cape Town along the Garden Route with a tour service, e.g. Hylton Ross. They offer 4day tours along the Garden Route for approx. R4500 per person including accommodation. www.hyltonross.co.za
If you fly from Amsterdam i recommend KLM. www.klm.com Their tickets are normally not too expensive and I personally liked the service and entertainment options on board.
Inner flights in SA...have a look at www.kulula.com
Jun 8th, 2006, 10:32 AM
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Bat,
Based on what I remember from our trip last year, $500-$600 total per day in Cape Town seems reasonable unless you have to stay at the Cape Grace or something like that. There are a lot of previous posts with recs. for guest houses,etc. both in Cape Town at in the Wine Region. We actually did not stay in Cape Town, but out in Stellenbosch (which was pretty centrally located for what we wanted to do) for about $125 per night at Lanzerac Manor on a winter rate. Obviously, a hotel in the V&A Waterfront area of Cape Town would be more expensive.
Rental cars - just to get a quick idea, go to Auto Europes website and try CPT airport for a week's rental and see waht your choices are. I think that will vary a lot depending on the size car, and if you get all inclusive insurance. (We wanted an automatic transmission as it is too hard to try to drive on the left side of the road with a standard).
Our flight from CPT back up to JNB (one-way) was about $160-$170 on British Air, but Kulula will be cheaper (but not as many flight times available if you are trying to connect with something else).
Camps:
Mala Mala $500 pppn this year, $575 next year, I don't know if they have a reduced rate for a certain number of nights or not, Napamatt or Kaye might know.
Mala Mala uses US dollars, but most all other camps in SA based on Rands, so hard to tell the exact price until you make the final payment. But let's just say $1=6.5 R.
So CCAfrica: Phinda Forest winter rate for 2006 about $400 pppn. Exeter Dulini winter rate about $450 pppn. You should get some kind of discount on CCAfrica for 4 or more nights. Don't know about 2007 rates.
I think that Simbambili's winter rate is in that same range.
I think that Elephant Plains winter rate may be less than $300 pppn.
Fed air charter from JNB to Sabi Sands about $250 each way. I don't know about getting down to Phinda, probably more expensive.
Hope that helps get you started, really wish I was was going back next May/June.
Based on what I remember from our trip last year, $500-$600 total per day in Cape Town seems reasonable unless you have to stay at the Cape Grace or something like that. There are a lot of previous posts with recs. for guest houses,etc. both in Cape Town at in the Wine Region. We actually did not stay in Cape Town, but out in Stellenbosch (which was pretty centrally located for what we wanted to do) for about $125 per night at Lanzerac Manor on a winter rate. Obviously, a hotel in the V&A Waterfront area of Cape Town would be more expensive.
Rental cars - just to get a quick idea, go to Auto Europes website and try CPT airport for a week's rental and see waht your choices are. I think that will vary a lot depending on the size car, and if you get all inclusive insurance. (We wanted an automatic transmission as it is too hard to try to drive on the left side of the road with a standard).
Our flight from CPT back up to JNB (one-way) was about $160-$170 on British Air, but Kulula will be cheaper (but not as many flight times available if you are trying to connect with something else).
Camps:
Mala Mala $500 pppn this year, $575 next year, I don't know if they have a reduced rate for a certain number of nights or not, Napamatt or Kaye might know.
Mala Mala uses US dollars, but most all other camps in SA based on Rands, so hard to tell the exact price until you make the final payment. But let's just say $1=6.5 R.
So CCAfrica: Phinda Forest winter rate for 2006 about $400 pppn. Exeter Dulini winter rate about $450 pppn. You should get some kind of discount on CCAfrica for 4 or more nights. Don't know about 2007 rates.
I think that Simbambili's winter rate is in that same range.
I think that Elephant Plains winter rate may be less than $300 pppn.
Fed air charter from JNB to Sabi Sands about $250 each way. I don't know about getting down to Phinda, probably more expensive.
Hope that helps get you started, really wish I was was going back next May/June.
Jun 8th, 2006, 11:39 AM
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bat,
How about Luangwa River Lodge for 6 nights of luxury at an unbeatable price? The 6th night is free, making rack rates only $1900 per person (or $316.67 pppns). This would be for a May 2007 booking, with high season starting on June 01st.
www.luangwariverlodge.com
There are $100 pp, each way, tickets from Joburg to Lusaka, and then from Lusaka to Mfuwe (South Luangwa) it is about $200 pp each way, making it $2500 pp total.
Luangwa River Lodge offers luxury that is usually only found at lodges that are double or triple the price. As an owner run lodge, however, it offers not only luxury but extremely personalized service and EXCELLENT food.
Of course there are countless other Zambian lodges I would recommend, but to fit your pricing and scheduling, I believe Luangwa River Lodge would be, far and away, the best choice.
Where is STamiya??? She should be returning anyday now from both Luangwa River Lodge and Chiawa (as well as Victoria Falls and the Kwa Zulu Natal region). She would be able to provide excellent feedback on a late May safari to Luangwa River Lodge.
How about Luangwa River Lodge for 6 nights of luxury at an unbeatable price? The 6th night is free, making rack rates only $1900 per person (or $316.67 pppns). This would be for a May 2007 booking, with high season starting on June 01st.
www.luangwariverlodge.com
There are $100 pp, each way, tickets from Joburg to Lusaka, and then from Lusaka to Mfuwe (South Luangwa) it is about $200 pp each way, making it $2500 pp total.
Luangwa River Lodge offers luxury that is usually only found at lodges that are double or triple the price. As an owner run lodge, however, it offers not only luxury but extremely personalized service and EXCELLENT food.
Of course there are countless other Zambian lodges I would recommend, but to fit your pricing and scheduling, I believe Luangwa River Lodge would be, far and away, the best choice.
Where is STamiya??? She should be returning anyday now from both Luangwa River Lodge and Chiawa (as well as Victoria Falls and the Kwa Zulu Natal region). She would be able to provide excellent feedback on a late May safari to Luangwa River Lodge.
Jun 8th, 2006, 01:35 PM
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Rocco,
Just out of curiousty's sake or for future reference, is off-road driving allowed in South Luangwa, since it is a National Park? And what about Lower Zambezi (which really looks beautiful from the pictures)?
Thanks.
Just out of curiousty's sake or for future reference, is off-road driving allowed in South Luangwa, since it is a National Park? And what about Lower Zambezi (which really looks beautiful from the pictures)?
Thanks.
Jun 8th, 2006, 02:00 PM
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Thanks hari, chris (for the links) & brandywine (for so many details).
Rocco, why am I not surprised you are recommending Zambia
[I was thinking that if I went to Zambia, I might want a fuller trip than a single location stay--but I'll think about it some more. Thanks for including the plane fare.]
I have not had enough chance to absorb the info--just a quick note to say thanks.
Rocco, why am I not surprised you are recommending Zambia
[I was thinking that if I went to Zambia, I might want a fuller trip than a single location stay--but I'll think about it some more. Thanks for including the plane fare.]I have not had enough chance to absorb the info--just a quick note to say thanks.
Jun 8th, 2006, 02:07 PM
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brandywine,
Offroad driving is not allowed within the national park limits. However, talk to anyone who has been there and it is rarely a drawback to their safari. Driving IS allowed within dry river beds, and this is often the spot where both lions and leopards like to hang out.
The advantage that Zambia has is its multitude of activities from true walking safaris (not a 60 minute walk to just stretch your legs type walk that is offered in the Sabi Sand, for example) to canoeing, to tiger fishing, to river safaris to both morning and night game drives in open vehicles.
The Lower Zambezi truly is a very beautiful park. No matter how late in the season, while the interior may be brown, you always have the Zambezi River, the fourth biggest river in Africa, with wildlife huddled by its shores and elephants swimming/walking across the river. There are even fireflies that come out at night to add to an already overwhelming ambience!
Offroad driving is not allowed within the national park limits. However, talk to anyone who has been there and it is rarely a drawback to their safari. Driving IS allowed within dry river beds, and this is often the spot where both lions and leopards like to hang out.
The advantage that Zambia has is its multitude of activities from true walking safaris (not a 60 minute walk to just stretch your legs type walk that is offered in the Sabi Sand, for example) to canoeing, to tiger fishing, to river safaris to both morning and night game drives in open vehicles.
The Lower Zambezi truly is a very beautiful park. No matter how late in the season, while the interior may be brown, you always have the Zambezi River, the fourth biggest river in Africa, with wildlife huddled by its shores and elephants swimming/walking across the river. There are even fireflies that come out at night to add to an already overwhelming ambience!
Jun 8th, 2006, 06:05 PM
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Hello Bat,
Weather in the Cape should be quite nice at the end of May - mid-70s during the day and sunny and clear, with crisp nights perfect for enjoying a glass of wine.
London is generally the least expensive 'gateway' to SA. Tickets to Joburg run about £350-£400 from high street agents and less from discounters.
BTW it may be less expensive to buy your ticket to Europe and use your FF miles for the Europe-Africa leg -- you may want to look into this, as you could then get your open-jaw at no additional cost.
Open-jaw tickets are definitely available - they will be more expensive than tickets to Joburg because tickets to Cape Town are a bit more. It may be less expensive to catch a cheap Kulula flight from Joburg (about $30 one way at current exchange rates).
$500-600 per day would be fine for the Cape if you stay in small boutique hotels and guesthouses rather than large tourist hotels. Travelling at the beginning of June would provide the best weather/cost compromise, as that's when low-season pricing kicks in.
You would be able to stay in nice gueshouses and eat very well. For example, a room at An African Villa in Cape Town, where I stayed, would run you about $70 per person per night.
http://www.capetowncity.co.za
You should be able to get a weekly rate on car hire. I've hired most of my cars from Avis and found that they usually have very competitive rates. An automatic does bump the price up a bit.
In terms of safari lodges, there are a huge range of options with an equally huge range of prices. The Rand is quite weak against the dollar right now (almost R6.8 to $1), so you might want to think about booking and paying now to take advantage of this.
It's hard to make recommendations without knowing a bit more about what your priorities are on safari, but here are some 2007 rates for CCA's lodges using the current exchange rate (not all lodges have released their 2007 rates yet, but CCA has):
Kirkman's Kamp (Sabi Sands) $436 pppn
Leadwood or Dulini (Sabi Sands) $517 pppn
Mala Mala $575 pppn
Ngala Tented (Timbavati) $517 pppn
Phinda Forest (KwaZuluNatal) $427 pppn (I loved my stay here at a similar time of year)
Kwandwe Ecca or Main (Eastern Cape) $385 pppn
These are rack rates. CCA does offer a long-stay discount for stays of more than 4 nights if they combine at least two CCA lodges.
Cheers,
Julian
Weather in the Cape should be quite nice at the end of May - mid-70s during the day and sunny and clear, with crisp nights perfect for enjoying a glass of wine.
London is generally the least expensive 'gateway' to SA. Tickets to Joburg run about £350-£400 from high street agents and less from discounters.
BTW it may be less expensive to buy your ticket to Europe and use your FF miles for the Europe-Africa leg -- you may want to look into this, as you could then get your open-jaw at no additional cost.
Open-jaw tickets are definitely available - they will be more expensive than tickets to Joburg because tickets to Cape Town are a bit more. It may be less expensive to catch a cheap Kulula flight from Joburg (about $30 one way at current exchange rates).
$500-600 per day would be fine for the Cape if you stay in small boutique hotels and guesthouses rather than large tourist hotels. Travelling at the beginning of June would provide the best weather/cost compromise, as that's when low-season pricing kicks in.
You would be able to stay in nice gueshouses and eat very well. For example, a room at An African Villa in Cape Town, where I stayed, would run you about $70 per person per night.
http://www.capetowncity.co.za
You should be able to get a weekly rate on car hire. I've hired most of my cars from Avis and found that they usually have very competitive rates. An automatic does bump the price up a bit.
In terms of safari lodges, there are a huge range of options with an equally huge range of prices. The Rand is quite weak against the dollar right now (almost R6.8 to $1), so you might want to think about booking and paying now to take advantage of this.
It's hard to make recommendations without knowing a bit more about what your priorities are on safari, but here are some 2007 rates for CCA's lodges using the current exchange rate (not all lodges have released their 2007 rates yet, but CCA has):
Kirkman's Kamp (Sabi Sands) $436 pppn
Leadwood or Dulini (Sabi Sands) $517 pppn
Mala Mala $575 pppn
Ngala Tented (Timbavati) $517 pppn
Phinda Forest (KwaZuluNatal) $427 pppn (I loved my stay here at a similar time of year)
Kwandwe Ecca or Main (Eastern Cape) $385 pppn
These are rack rates. CCA does offer a long-stay discount for stays of more than 4 nights if they combine at least two CCA lodges.
Cheers,
Julian
Jun 8th, 2006, 07:49 PM
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thanks jasher. Your weather forecast sounds very nice. There was a weather link on another thread that made it seem a bit colder. My main concern about the weather--Capetown, etc is rain--that same link indicated 12 days precipitation on average for the month of May. Would hate to be rained out the entire time.
Jun 8th, 2006, 11:09 PM
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about the off road driving in South Luangwa. if something was seen that was interesting, it was amazing the way a "road" would appear out of nowhere. in lower zambezi when i was there last year it seemed all the animals came to the road so no off road driving was needed.
Jun 9th, 2006, 01:37 AM
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Lynn,
These prices are pps, but as Hari has pointed out CCA does not charge a single supplement for the first three single rooms in a booking, so a solo traveller would pay the same price.
Bat,
Weather is always hard to predict, but July and August tend to be rainier than June in Cape Town.
Hari,
Normally the long-stay discount requires a stay at two or more CCA lodges. I've done both Ngala and Londoz and Phinda and Londoz combinations, which work really well.
Finally, just a note - of course Mala Mala is not a CCA camp, but I thought you'd be interested in the pricing.
Cheers,
Julian
These prices are pps, but as Hari has pointed out CCA does not charge a single supplement for the first three single rooms in a booking, so a solo traveller would pay the same price.
Bat,
Weather is always hard to predict, but July and August tend to be rainier than June in Cape Town.
Hari,
Normally the long-stay discount requires a stay at two or more CCA lodges. I've done both Ngala and Londoz and Phinda and Londoz combinations, which work really well.
Finally, just a note - of course Mala Mala is not a CCA camp, but I thought you'd be interested in the pricing.
Cheers,
Julian
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