Liability Insurance for South Africa Car Rental??
Feb 22nd, 2004, 10:13 AM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Liability Insurance for South Africa Car Rental??
Hopefully someone out there will know the answer to this question. Even the ever-knowledgable Selwyn was stumped.
We will be renting a car in South Africa next month and our US car insurance policy is inapplicable outside the US. We want to make sure we are covered for personal liability, but the South Africa car rental agencies all offer only collision, theft, and damage coverage (which we have anyway through our credit card).
WHY? Is liability coverage automatic in SA? How can we make sure we are covered? Any SA residents know this??
Note: Standard travel insurance does not include liability coverage either.
We will be renting a car in South Africa next month and our US car insurance policy is inapplicable outside the US. We want to make sure we are covered for personal liability, but the South Africa car rental agencies all offer only collision, theft, and damage coverage (which we have anyway through our credit card).
WHY? Is liability coverage automatic in SA? How can we make sure we are covered? Any SA residents know this??
Note: Standard travel insurance does not include liability coverage either.
Feb 22nd, 2004, 01:57 PM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
From my experience Personal Liability is always in addition to Collision (CDW). When we've rented cars, payment for Personal Liability was made at time of pick-up.
In our case, since we don't own a car, and, of course, don't have auto insurance, we can't count on our own insurance to cover PI. So insurance thru your Credit Card or purchased as part of the auto rental price becomes Primary. If I understand correct, in most countries, if you own a car and have insurance, what you get for your rental car becomes Secondary.
Since your own insurance doesn't cover Personal Liability, you have to purchase this separately. However, if I recall, PI is only a few dollars (less than $5) a day, but that might also depend on the country where you're renting.
If someone out there can more clearly explain - please do so.
In our case, since we don't own a car, and, of course, don't have auto insurance, we can't count on our own insurance to cover PI. So insurance thru your Credit Card or purchased as part of the auto rental price becomes Primary. If I understand correct, in most countries, if you own a car and have insurance, what you get for your rental car becomes Secondary.
Since your own insurance doesn't cover Personal Liability, you have to purchase this separately. However, if I recall, PI is only a few dollars (less than $5) a day, but that might also depend on the country where you're renting.
If someone out there can more clearly explain - please do so.
Feb 23rd, 2004, 12:58 AM
#3
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi there!
The insurance cover in South Africa is a must, because the cars are insured as well. If you have a look at this webpage: www.africarhire.com they work with Hertz, and PAI (Personal Accident insurance) is included in the daily rate. They offer Standard insurance cover and Super insurance cover. Both Include the PAI.
About your credit card. You might have some sort of insurance on it, but it is very limited. That is also why you have the extra insurance cover, when you rent a car. An advantage with the webpage that I gave you above is, that the excess is the same for all car typed. The only difference is the amount between standard- and super insurance cover.
I hope, that helped a bit.
Regards Stern
The insurance cover in South Africa is a must, because the cars are insured as well. If you have a look at this webpage: www.africarhire.com they work with Hertz, and PAI (Personal Accident insurance) is included in the daily rate. They offer Standard insurance cover and Super insurance cover. Both Include the PAI.
About your credit card. You might have some sort of insurance on it, but it is very limited. That is also why you have the extra insurance cover, when you rent a car. An advantage with the webpage that I gave you above is, that the excess is the same for all car typed. The only difference is the amount between standard- and super insurance cover.
I hope, that helped a bit.
Regards Stern
Feb 23rd, 2004, 01:14 AM
#4
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Both sandi and stern are correct. PAI has always been an option with any car I have ever rented in S.A. For another example, see www.avis.co.za/main.asp?ID=719.
I am also very dubious about what insurance can possibly be covered by your credit card, unless you mean that your card will be used to pay the money required should you have an accident. Even if you have the "standard" cover through the rental company, the excess payable (even if you're not at fault) is probably going to be in the region of R5000. (You can cover this excess by getting 100% cover, which is obviously extra.) If you don't have any vehicle cover (damage and theft), then even if you're not at fault you're going to have to pay plenty and only get that back much later if the case is won.
I am also very dubious about what insurance can possibly be covered by your credit card, unless you mean that your card will be used to pay the money required should you have an accident. Even if you have the "standard" cover through the rental company, the excess payable (even if you're not at fault) is probably going to be in the region of R5000. (You can cover this excess by getting 100% cover, which is obviously extra.) If you don't have any vehicle cover (damage and theft), then even if you're not at fault you're going to have to pay plenty and only get that back much later if the case is won.
Feb 23rd, 2004, 01:17 AM
#5
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My apologies, something made me check that link (that I had c&p'd) and it doesn't work. But just go to www.avis.co.za and select Rental Guide/Personal Accident Ins. from the menu near the top of that hoe page.
Feb 23rd, 2004, 10:40 AM
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for everyone's replies. I think the issue stems from simply different legal systems/mores in South Africa. I will share what I've learned for anyone who has the same question in the future. Note: I am not an expert in insurance law and have no familiarity with South African insurance laws.
As everyone who drives in the US knows, you need to have first, insurance to cover all PROPERTY damage. This is the collision/comprehensive/theft coverage. When renting a car in South Africa, this is the coverage that is always offered from rental agencies. This coverage is also, however, automatically included in most travel insurance policies and on most credit cards. If you charge your car rental to most American Express cards, for example, AmEx will pay for any damage to the car from a collision or if the car is stolen. For this reason, many travelers from the US routinely decline this coverage offered from car rental agencies when abroad.
Medical expenses are covered by many US medical insurance companies and also by travel insurance policies.
The issue I had is with what in the US is known as LIABILITY coverage. In the US, every driver lives with the very real threat that they could be in an accident and sued not just for medical expenses and property damage, but for hundreds of thousands of dollars or even millions of dollars for pain and suffering, future lost wages, etc. To protect assets, drivers carry insurance to protect against these very high-stakes lawsuits.
With very very few exceptions, US car insurance policies (even umbrella policies) DO NOT cover you if you are sued for an incident involving an overseas car rental.
I eventually called the South Africa tourist bureau in New York and the man there told me that liability coverage may be hard to purchase, and that he has NEVER heard of a tourist being sued in SA for this kind of thing. As he said, "South Africans do not sue like Americans do." My guess is that either the SA courts do not allow for these kind of lawsuits, or there are serious caps on them.
I did look at the Avis website, and they indicate that they do offer some kind of third party liability protection, but this is the only car rental compnay I found that offers this. And Avis charges more than twice the price of the other rental agencies.
My guess is that Avis offers this protection because Americans are used to it, but that the lawsin South Africa render it unnecessary.
Any SA insurance experts out there?
As everyone who drives in the US knows, you need to have first, insurance to cover all PROPERTY damage. This is the collision/comprehensive/theft coverage. When renting a car in South Africa, this is the coverage that is always offered from rental agencies. This coverage is also, however, automatically included in most travel insurance policies and on most credit cards. If you charge your car rental to most American Express cards, for example, AmEx will pay for any damage to the car from a collision or if the car is stolen. For this reason, many travelers from the US routinely decline this coverage offered from car rental agencies when abroad.
Medical expenses are covered by many US medical insurance companies and also by travel insurance policies.
The issue I had is with what in the US is known as LIABILITY coverage. In the US, every driver lives with the very real threat that they could be in an accident and sued not just for medical expenses and property damage, but for hundreds of thousands of dollars or even millions of dollars for pain and suffering, future lost wages, etc. To protect assets, drivers carry insurance to protect against these very high-stakes lawsuits.
With very very few exceptions, US car insurance policies (even umbrella policies) DO NOT cover you if you are sued for an incident involving an overseas car rental.
I eventually called the South Africa tourist bureau in New York and the man there told me that liability coverage may be hard to purchase, and that he has NEVER heard of a tourist being sued in SA for this kind of thing. As he said, "South Africans do not sue like Americans do." My guess is that either the SA courts do not allow for these kind of lawsuits, or there are serious caps on them.
I did look at the Avis website, and they indicate that they do offer some kind of third party liability protection, but this is the only car rental compnay I found that offers this. And Avis charges more than twice the price of the other rental agencies.
My guess is that Avis offers this protection because Americans are used to it, but that the lawsin South Africa render it unnecessary.
Any SA insurance experts out there?
Feb 24th, 2004, 06:49 AM
#7
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Liability insurance is usually required by law (not just in the U.S.) and seldom is an additional charge made for it. Here is what Hertz says about it for South Africa: "Basic insurance includes at no additional charge cover on bodily injury to persons other than the driver and on property damage to anything other than the Hertz vehicle up to ZAR 1,000,000.00."
Feb 28th, 2004, 06:22 PM
#9
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,501
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm dipping into some very old memory banks here, so please excuse me. I think "balance of third party" may refer to medical or other costs that are above and beyond those covered by the insurance policy that the driver of the other vehicle involved in a collision may carry.
A third party, as I understand the term, is an innocent victim of a motor vehicle accident, either a passenger or a pedestrian.
I would strongly recommend that you check that you have bought third party liability insurance when you rent a car in South Africa or anywhere else for that matter. (It may be called by various names, e.g., balance of third party or whatever.)
Then, one way or another, your insurance company and the other driver's insurance company will work things out between them and make sure that they pay third parties' expenses. As I understand it, this type of insurance also protects you if the other driver doesn't carry insurance at all.
I believe Dlm is correct in stating that the South African legal system allows for compensation of actual expenses (medical treatment or whatever), but does not have a provision for paying for intangible consequences (pain, suffering, mental anguish, etc.).
Many countries outside the U.S. (and I believe South Africa is one of them) also do not incorporate the concept of punitive damages into their legal systems. Suppose for example Joe defrauds Bob of $10,000 (to use an extremely simplistic example). If Joe is found guilty of this crime in the U.S., he probably will have to repay the $10,000 to Bob, and he likely will have to pay for Bob's legal expenses as well. In addition to that, he may have to pay a hefty amount in punitive damages. The purpose of the punitive damages is to punish Bob and also to act as a deterrent to discourage other people from committing the same crime. This concept is unknown in many legal systems outside of the U.S.
That is my lay person's undertstanding of this matter.
By the way, one point on which I'm pretty confident is that the term "excess" in South Africa means "deductible" in North America, but I rather suspect that the North Americans who have contributed to this thread so far have been aware of that.
A third party, as I understand the term, is an innocent victim of a motor vehicle accident, either a passenger or a pedestrian.
I would strongly recommend that you check that you have bought third party liability insurance when you rent a car in South Africa or anywhere else for that matter. (It may be called by various names, e.g., balance of third party or whatever.)
Then, one way or another, your insurance company and the other driver's insurance company will work things out between them and make sure that they pay third parties' expenses. As I understand it, this type of insurance also protects you if the other driver doesn't carry insurance at all.
I believe Dlm is correct in stating that the South African legal system allows for compensation of actual expenses (medical treatment or whatever), but does not have a provision for paying for intangible consequences (pain, suffering, mental anguish, etc.).
Many countries outside the U.S. (and I believe South Africa is one of them) also do not incorporate the concept of punitive damages into their legal systems. Suppose for example Joe defrauds Bob of $10,000 (to use an extremely simplistic example). If Joe is found guilty of this crime in the U.S., he probably will have to repay the $10,000 to Bob, and he likely will have to pay for Bob's legal expenses as well. In addition to that, he may have to pay a hefty amount in punitive damages. The purpose of the punitive damages is to punish Bob and also to act as a deterrent to discourage other people from committing the same crime. This concept is unknown in many legal systems outside of the U.S.
That is my lay person's undertstanding of this matter.
By the way, one point on which I'm pretty confident is that the term "excess" in South Africa means "deductible" in North America, but I rather suspect that the North Americans who have contributed to this thread so far have been aware of that.
Feb 29th, 2004, 12:58 AM
#10
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK, I think that this time I may have thought this through properly (or maybe just read the question properly!) instead of just rushing to reply as I did earlier. The more recent posts from Sue and Judy have prompted this.
PAI as offered by the rental cos. is for the occupants of YOUR vehicle, subject to limitations of course. It may be an optional extra, or it may be included. For example, Europcar says "PAI is included in the rates. All the occupants in the vehicle are collectively covered for death and disability up to a maximum of R20 000.00 and medical expenses up to R2500.00 per incident.". (Personally, I have never ever taken it, because I have adequate cover through other insurance.)
But what used to be "3rd Party" insurance (and I think the liability inmsurance for which you are looking), which used to be a compulsory insurance lninked to a vehicle, is now covered by the Road Accident Fund. This is funded by a levy on fuel, so every driver in S.A. therefore has that cover. I don't know if there are any limitations, I'd expect not.
PAI as offered by the rental cos. is for the occupants of YOUR vehicle, subject to limitations of course. It may be an optional extra, or it may be included. For example, Europcar says "PAI is included in the rates. All the occupants in the vehicle are collectively covered for death and disability up to a maximum of R20 000.00 and medical expenses up to R2500.00 per incident.". (Personally, I have never ever taken it, because I have adequate cover through other insurance.)
But what used to be "3rd Party" insurance (and I think the liability inmsurance for which you are looking), which used to be a compulsory insurance lninked to a vehicle, is now covered by the Road Accident Fund. This is funded by a levy on fuel, so every driver in S.A. therefore has that cover. I don't know if there are any limitations, I'd expect not.
Jun 22nd, 2009, 11:54 AM
#11
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 742
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Topping this thread...
This is exactly what I was trying to figure out lately for car rental in South Africa. These answers are so informative, but they are 5 years old!
Has anything changed since then? We are travelling from California, the lawsuit capital of the entire planet... It looks like I won't have to buy the CDW, because my Visa card picks that up, and the PAI I'll just figure out if it's optional or included?
This is exactly what I was trying to figure out lately for car rental in South Africa. These answers are so informative, but they are 5 years old!
Has anything changed since then? We are travelling from California, the lawsuit capital of the entire planet... It looks like I won't have to buy the CDW, because my Visa card picks that up, and the PAI I'll just figure out if it's optional or included?
Jun 22nd, 2009, 09:46 PM
#12
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey, thanks gigib for digging this out. (I remember you from your "overnight OR Tambo" posting 
). We too will be renting car at JNB from Avis. In past years we have simply purchased whatever/all extra insurance Avis offered. And so far have never had to use any of it. Anyway, as you, I would be interested in more info.
regards - tom
). We too will be renting car at JNB from Avis. In past years we have simply purchased whatever/all extra insurance Avis offered. And so far have never had to use any of it. Anyway, as you, I would be interested in more info.regards - tom
Jun 22nd, 2009, 10:23 PM
#13
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,558
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm going to have to dig out my rental car file from last year as I can't remember off the top of my head all the details. I recall including the Rental Collision/Loss in my trip insurance as well as purchasing the CDW & TLW from the rental car company and after reading the fine print, thought I had all the bases covered that'could' be covered. Oh yeah and I paid with my VISA card as a last precaution. Here is a thread last year where we exchange some information, maybe you can find a few tips:
http://www.fodors.com/community/afri...omatic-jnb.cfm
http://www.fodors.com/community/afri...omatic-jnb.cfm
Jun 22nd, 2009, 11:11 PM
#14
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Carla, which rental company did you use? Thanks for the link to last years thread on this, it is good.
What's driving me crazy is what make/model car to rent. We are game driving in Kruger for 7 days and really want a car that is tall and big windows. I can't tell from the Avis photos of the car classes what the cars really look like. And I really don't know what the models are, e.g. a VW Polo, Hyundai Tuscon. Does it set high and have big windows? The cars we rented before, like two years ago, are no longer listed. Any suggestions? Might be an advantage to renting out of JNB and Avis as they have many many rental cars there and I might find something to switch to if not liking what they first bring out.
regards - tom
What's driving me crazy is what make/model car to rent. We are game driving in Kruger for 7 days and really want a car that is tall and big windows. I can't tell from the Avis photos of the car classes what the cars really look like. And I really don't know what the models are, e.g. a VW Polo, Hyundai Tuscon. Does it set high and have big windows? The cars we rented before, like two years ago, are no longer listed. Any suggestions? Might be an advantage to renting out of JNB and Avis as they have many many rental cars there and I might find something to switch to if not liking what they first bring out.
regards - tom
Jun 23rd, 2009, 12:23 AM
#15
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In my last post in this thread I referred to the RAF (Road Accident Fund) and said that I'd not expect there to be any limitations on payouts. That has certainly changed since 1 August last year, there are now relatively low limits. See http://tinyurl.com/mag67t for more detail on what those are.
A high-profile claim of a wealthy Swiss motorcyclist who lost an arm and a leg in 2002 after being it by a car, probably had something to do with this. The fund could have been bankrupted. His original claim was for R4.5 billion (yes billion) and it was settled last year for R500 million. The highest in the fund’s 62-year history, perhaps in the World.
A high-profile claim of a wealthy Swiss motorcyclist who lost an arm and a leg in 2002 after being it by a car, probably had something to do with this. The fund could have been bankrupted. His original claim was for R4.5 billion (yes billion) and it was settled last year for R500 million. The highest in the fund’s 62-year history, perhaps in the World.
Jun 23rd, 2009, 12:36 AM
#16
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
500 million Rand. And I thought USA was ridiculous. If he weren't a wealthy Swiss before, he is now!!
FWIW, IMHO being on a motorcycle should disqualify you from collecting any damages. Hospital emergency rooms call them "murdercycles".
regards - tom
FWIW, IMHO being on a motorcycle should disqualify you from collecting any damages. Hospital emergency rooms call them "murdercycles".
regards - tom
Jun 24th, 2009, 12:29 AM
#17
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tom, he was already a very wealthy man. That was how (loss of earnings, etc.) he tried to justify his multi-billion Rand claim. And presumably why it still ended up so huge. In this feature on Carte Blanche (an S.A. TV magazine show), it is claimed that his company profits are "well over 500-million rand a year" (the figure he got from the RAF): http://tinyurl.com/lbhzt6
Jun 24th, 2009, 12:20 PM
#18
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 742
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello everyone,
Excellent info, thanks! Hard to grasp the concept of being or not being "at fault" for a car accident! South Africa must not have ambulance chasers...
Just reserved a VW Polo (or similar) thru Avis for $241, for 12 days. The prices I saw for SUV-type things like a Hyundai Tucson were $1100! Can't see spending that much, we'll look for snakes or something. I drive a VW Rabbit at home and the picture of the Polo looks similar, it's a small car, but solid and not TOO low to the ground.
Excellent info, thanks! Hard to grasp the concept of being or not being "at fault" for a car accident! South Africa must not have ambulance chasers...
Just reserved a VW Polo (or similar) thru Avis for $241, for 12 days. The prices I saw for SUV-type things like a Hyundai Tucson were $1100! Can't see spending that much, we'll look for snakes or something. I drive a VW Rabbit at home and the picture of the Polo looks similar, it's a small car, but solid and not TOO low to the ground.
Jun 24th, 2009, 01:47 PM
#19
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
gigib - you sure about that rate, $241 for 12 days? When I check Avis JNB I see over $400 for 12 days for VW Polo group B, for 2400KM. Did you reserve using Avis SA site, http://www.avis.co.za ? Or USA Avis site? I gotta do same shortly.
regards - tom
regards - tom
Jun 24th, 2009, 05:00 PM
#20
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We booked via a broker in SA called aroundaboutcars both this and last year. No problems at all and reasonable rates. Last year we ended up with a Hertz car and this year a first rental. Google them.
