The ATR web site has a photo of one of those horrid cruises somewhere in Botswana. Apparently the passengers were even sort of hassling the elephants that were crossing. I would have gotten violent. I was on a "booze cruise" accidentally off St. John, USVI last year. I will never do that again. ..."Remember, the more rum you drink, the more fish you'll see.." How irresponsible is that? Ugh!

I say accidentally because I had no idea what to expect. The brochure made it look better than it was.

Hi Sharon,

That's awful (both the bit about the elephants and the bit about encouraging people to drink on boats -- the number one contributing factor to deaths by drowning is alcohol).

I've heard (from Rocco, I believe) that it's possible to escape the crowds if you avoid the 'honeypots' like the Chobe waterfront, but then you probably won't see as many animals either. My trips to Botswana have missed out Chobe mostly because of the crowd factor -- I'm not enough of an ellie person to put up with the crowds.

It sounds like the river cruises in Kafue might be more productive, game-wise, than those in Botswana, which are more about soaking up the atmosphere of the Delta. Don't get me wrong -- I really enjoyed my time on the water in Botswana, but not based on the game-viewing.

Supposedly, river cruises on the Rufiji in Selous are great for seeing leopard.

Cheers,
Julian

Julian,

As I said, you can't escape from this booze/floating aspect if such a noisy boat stays 20 metres away.

I can't say much about LV (I only used the boat for the camp/car port transfers) and Lake Zibalianja (not much water left during my stay), but at Kwara I had hippos, snakes, antelopes and, of course, really huge flocks of water bird. But you are right, if it comes to wildlife sightings the great rivers are more rewarding. (Unfortunately, at Chobe I only saw the elephant herds from the lodge, and not during my river cruises - a question of luck, as always on safari.)

In North Kafue (Kafue and Lufupa rivers) you have the wildlife sightings of great rivers combined with the exclusiveness of a quasi-private concession.

Mitch

"Remember, the more rum you drink, the more fish you'll see.."

Hhhmmmm, I'm just reflecting why I drink so much Mosi in Zambia... to see even more leopards and wild dogs? :-D

Hi Mitch,

By avoiding the honey-pots, I meant that one could avoid the areas frequented by the 'standard' booze cruises, which would mean going either further up or downstream than they usually go.

In terms of the Delta, I think it also depends on when you go. I was there in June and July, so I wouldn't expect to see a lot of water birds. If I recall, you were there a bit earlier in the year, which may be why you saw more than I did.

Kafue sounds great -- I'm reading through the Bradt Zambia book Rocco gave me, and it is definitely going on my Zambia list.

Cheers,
Julian

Re avoiding the honey pots: on Chobe River you have no chance to escape because all the lodges are centered around Kasane. Upper Zambezi is different because there are even lodges and camps 30-40 kms upstream of VicFalls. One of the best places for river cruises must be the Zambezi at Impalila Island, near Kasane/Chobe but in Namibia. But I think, it's more a birder's paradise.

Mitch

Try this link - it's from the ATR site regarding the ellies being hassled.

http://www.africatravelresource.com/...01/lows/02.htm

Hope it works. Cheers, all!

Thanks cooncat! Interesting link...52 cars at a sundowner at Chobe? Glad I cancelled that trip and chose Zambia!

I hear you. I am 99.9% committed to Zambia next year. Very exciting to be able to REALLY plan a trip now! :-D

Sharon,

This ATR link is great. I find the term 'retirement lodges' most amusing.

99.9% Zambia 2006? Or is this more a 'Rocco decision'?

I don't know where I will be next year. If I follow my alternate rhythm it will certainly be East Africa...

Julian,

Reading about the low 'safari ratio' at ATR a question comes to my mind. Up to now I've encountered the worst open safari vehicles at WS camps. My question: are WS still using the same 3-row vehicles in Mombo and other 6-paw camps?

Mitch

The place where Rocco stayed, Matetsi, is 40km upstream of the Falls -- that was probably why he said he had a crowd-free experience.

Cheers,
Julian

Hi Mitch,

Sorry, our posts must have crossed or something - I didn't see your question. I'm not sure, as thus far I've stayed in all 5-paw camps.

I actually found the WS vehicles a bit more comfortable than some of the older vehicles -- the bucket seats (rather than bench seats) were easier on my back. They did seem a bit more cramped in terms of leg room, however.

Cheers,
Julian

cooncat-what's the .1% holding you back?

Julian,

re Zambezi: I thought more on the camps on the Zambian side - but you are right with Matetsi.

re WS vehicles: sorry, I already have this Julian-Mombo association in my mind. Now I realize that this is your future trip.

Mitch

Interestingly, ATR's site doesn't have 'highs and lows' for any of the other countries they operate in, only Botswana. I would have been interested to read about the highs and lows for the other countries too.

Cheers,
Julian

Mitch - What do you mean "Rocco decision?"
Dennis and Mitch: the 1% represents, more or less, my irritating inability to make decisions! Mitch - I'll admit that Rocco has been very persuasive, but my first introduction to Zambia came in a travel magazine a few years back; some of you may remember it was about a group Gavin Blair took to the Bangwualu (spelling?) Swamps. I thought it looked intriguing.

East Africa is someplace I've always wanted to go. I'm going to need more time and money to do properly.
Sharon

Julian - ATR isn't finished with their web site. :-)

Sharon,

'Rocco decision'? Well, one day Rocco is posting his 'definite' trip itinerary, and a week later it sounds quite different. Or his lodge and/or operator recommendations... I remember his praises on ATR - but his most current post on this operator seems to be by a different person...

East Africa? Yeah, the Mara was my first love. But in the meantime I have lost my heart somewhere in the Delta...

Mitch

I think he means a decision which isn't really a decision -- you know how Rocco's plans are in a state of flux until virtually the day he leaves :S-

Cheers,
Julian

OH!! Haahaa. I see. Well, yes, maybe this is going to be kind of like a Rocco decision! Perhaps I'll hold off on posting any more until I REALLY have it down. I got a huge kick out of Rocco's camera thread. First he was going to get the Rebel XT, and ended up with two 20Ds and a battery of lenses!! Do I really sound that bad??!!
(Anyway, it's really not polite to talk about others when they can't defend themselves. But then again, who cares. He's in Africa.) ;-)

RE Mombo: If I hadn't waited too long (a mere 8 months in advance) I would have booked Mombo for this year. Oh well...I did five wonderful days at Londoz instead. It probably cost less too.

Cheers,
Julian

Personally, I love Rocco's threads -- they're very amusing, and rather educational! I think the bulk of the camera thing must have happened whilst I was in Botswana -- by the time I came back he had settled on the 20D (I think).

I think most of us are just as indecisive, but Rocco shares his indecision more than most people.

Cheers,
Julian

Yes, one thing is sure: without Rocco this forum is only half as valuable.

Mitch,

The Luamfwa website says that they are one of only three permanent lodges in the park. Chchele Presidential is another one -- what is the third? Mfuwe?

Cheers,
Julian

Rocco = Good. Ditto! :-D

Mitch - I have left my heart in so many places I've traveled I've lost count!

I hope you two know I was just giving Rocco a good ribbing!

Julian,

Mfuwe (www.mfuwelodge.com) is the third. And Puku Ridge (http://www.star-of-africa.com/circui.../pukuridge.htm) would be the fourth if you add tented lodges. Btw, Mfuwe/Bushcamp Company just have opened a bush camp that stays open until December: Kapamba (www.bushcampcompany.com/camp-kapamba.htm).

Mitch

Sharon, your heart looks this way: ((U))?
((S))

Well, I ((L)) the Delta.

... must consult my online dictionary to really understand "ribbing"...

Mitch: Ribbing= joking, giving him a hard time.
Where is Kapamba Camp located?

Thanks!

Never mind, I just used your web link. Wow! It looks pretty swanky!

Mitch: Swanky=Fancy, shmancy ;-)

Sharon,

Kapamba is located in the same area as the other camps of the Bushcamp Company, south of Mfuwe sector, halfway between Mfuwe Bridge and Luamfwa Lodge. On my interactive itinerary map it's located near Bilimungwe.

Mitch

Thanks for the camp info, Mitch.

Cheers,
Julian

Sorry, didn't see your last posting.

PS: I mean Sharon's posting.

cooncat~have you multiplied? there's now a cooncat and a cooncat2~a relative of yours?

Sorry to confuse you- yes it's the same cooncat. I re-registered from my new computer at home and didn't have all my info with me, so....it was just easier!

I think I'm going to take a break from the forum tonight. This hurricane stuff is really intense. I can't believe what's going on down south. If any of you reading this are from there or have loved ones there I am truly sorry. What a mess. Talk to everyone later.
Peace~