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sniktawk Nov 17th, 2007 04:09 AM

Yet Another Wilderness Capture
Sad but true, Lianshula has fallen prey to the Wilderness behemoth, just think it could have been yours for $1.5 million.

Kwando is now surrounded!

nyama Nov 17th, 2007 08:58 AM

WS helped Lianshulu to survive when they made a deal with them in the early 2000s, subsequently sub-leasing Lianshulu Bush Camp to OAT. So they already had a share in the operation for some time. IMO not such a big surprise that they take over now.

The following article is a good introduction into Lianshulu's valuable community work,

This article (from last May) already mentioned that WS will take over all operational duties.

sniktawk Nov 19th, 2007 07:10 AM


Do you work for or have shares in Wilderness?

napamatt Nov 19th, 2007 09:03 AM

Nyama has always a been a good source of information, and I have no detected a bias in previous posts, furthermore I dont see why you posted the way you did.

And obviously Kwando has nothing to fear while they continue to differentiate their product and offer (in many fodorites opinion) a better product.

I'm not sure were you are coming from, but as I've previosuly suggested maybe you could do a better job. In fact for $1.5 million, that's not much money to raise for most of us.

Bill_H Nov 19th, 2007 09:56 AM

<b>In fact for $1.5 million, that's not much money to raise for most of us.</b>

Speak for yourself matt :)

nyama Nov 19th, 2007 10:06 AM

napamatt -- Thank you.

sniktawk -- If you browse through my posts on this forum you'll find out that I'm also one of the strongest critics of WS. My philosophy is: criticize them if they do something wrong (IMHO), praise them if they do something right.

afrigalah Nov 19th, 2007 01:34 PM

$1.5 m! For me and my wife, something like 75 safaris, probably more because of the interest it would earn. Though I wouldn't be averse to running a concession, if I could pick and choose the guests!

Ken, nyama doesn't need any of us to defend himself, but what he says is correct.


HariS Nov 19th, 2007 06:29 PM


On the contrary, i'd rather have you run a &quot;Concession&quot; .... i will be rest assured that there are no Copper baths ...... ;)


nyama Nov 19th, 2007 06:49 PM

John, we'll introduce Hari into 'serious' walks, running down cheetahs... :D
(and a good beer after this, or two...)

nyama Nov 19th, 2007 07:22 PM

...hmm, but you should have at least one luxury chalet for our bird specialist... ((S))

HariS Nov 19th, 2007 08:05 PM


Walks, yes ...... but i won't be walking in Zimbabwe trying to dodge the poacher's bullets!!!

North Luangwa sounds very interesting and i remember Fred's (Greendrake) report from his recent visit.


nyama Nov 20th, 2007 01:47 AM

Hari -- don't generalize. I walked in four parks in Zim, and there was only one remote place with those poaching problems. There are large areas in Kenya or Uganda where chances are very good to meet AKs - this doesn't keep thousands of travelers from visiting these countries each year.

Nevertheless, North Luangwa is a very good walking destination.

GeoffG Nov 20th, 2007 03:32 AM


Have you ever considered owning one of these places?

I had an interesting Email chat with Brian Graham when L.E. (ie; Selinda) was up for grabs.

Maybe a group of us could form a consortium.


sniktawk Nov 20th, 2007 08:05 AM

Whichever hunting concession that CCA have bought (nG 29 0r 30) was as far as I can recall up for sale in the region of $6.5 million. There is currently (per website a concession in the Tuli Block for around the same price any takers?

nyama Nov 20th, 2007 10:12 AM

Geoff -- not seriously so far. I once thought about it when I got an offer for a share of my most favourite bush camp in South Luangwa, but the answer was quite easy for me - not enough savings. And if recalling what camp managers told me during my most recent safari I'm not sure if I really want this... read what I posted on 10/27/2007 in the &quot;Does anyone still travel ECO-style?&quot; thread,;tid=35072739

sniktawk -- I'm currently not quite sure if CCA got the full lease for one of these concessions, or just a photographic sub-lease from the concession owner (the same sub-lease that Landela Safaris had some years ago).

afrigalah Nov 20th, 2007 11:33 AM

&quot;not enough savings&quot;

funny, same reason I gave


nyama Nov 20th, 2007 05:30 PM

Well, here's another property for 1.5$ millions - a quite popular destination north of Mfuwe Bridge, I won't tell the name, but I guess some people (such as luangwablondes) will recognize it...

My dream would be this, I love this area... (it's near the place of my most favourite outdoor shower)

HariS Nov 20th, 2007 08:10 PM

Nyama - go for it!

bigcountry Nov 25th, 2007 04:10 AM

on the subject of camp property sales and also the recent discussions of the increased prices of zib in 2008, does anyone know what that property sold for to the jouberts? it would be interesting to run the numbers to see how much of the rate hike was due to the price tag.

also, i've heard kwando is coming for release in 2009? is that true and any guess what that is gonna trade for.

thx a lot

skimmer Nov 25th, 2007 05:00 AM

Kwando's lease is going to expire and it would be interesting to see who is gonna tender for it. Will Kevin be back or not or is the government itself interested given the proximity of Namibia's border? Will it be a single or multi-purpose lease?

Anyway, all the recent changes (management changes/turnover of staff/changing of their concept to run the business/pricing)at Kwando are related to this subject.

Selinda's lease will be renewed within a couple of years. But given the influential powers behind it, it will be obvious the current owners won't be facing a loss of their investment in the near future.

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