Where would you live: Cairo or Phnom Penh?
 

I know this is one of those insanely subjective questions, but I'm facing this dilemma (and stumped) and after having one too many B & Ts it seems like a good idea to solicit some opinions here. It would definitely be great to hear from someone who has lived in *both* places, but I imagine that's unlikely so I definitely would love to hear from anyone who lived in either place, esp. if they were on a low budget and/or are a single woman.

thanks!

mp413 on a saturday night

Well, I lived in Cairo for 4 years and loved it. But I have to ask......what would you be doing?

IMO on a low budget you are better off in PP. I think you will get larger and nicer accommodations than you would in Cairo for the same money for a start. I think air pollution, traffic and other quality of life issues would impact you much more greatly in a place like Cairo on a low budget. I think Cairo is great if you can pay for a certain life style, and it sounds like you may not be able to afford it. For example, getting around a huge city like Cairo with public transport (no car, no driver) could be quite nightmarish, but in PP you may be able to do this with a bicycle, or live near to where you work. I just looked at some stats and see that Cairo has a population of 7.5 million and over 15 million in the metro area. PP has a population of 1 million and the population of the entire country is 13 million. You do the math.

Small issues might be as a single woman your ability to get out and socialize on your own, I don't think this is a huge issue in Cairo as it is in other Middle Eastern countries, I have not lived in Cairo so can't say this for sure. Getting access to wine, beer, etc may be more problematic, this may not be an issue to you. Access to certain publications may be difficult if the government chooses to repress these. You would not find these issues in PP, other than cost of some items, which may be high.

Don't know what your job or pay is, but you may also want to look at things like possible tax rates in either country and see if that affects your situation. Also, I don't know quick access to good quality health care is important to you, my guess is that Cairo is going to be better for this. For PP, you would have to travel to Thailand, IMO, for anything other than basic care, but care in Thailand is excellent and not expensive.

I have lived in Cairo as a single woman for near 10 years now. I would say you can survive pretty nicely on $1000 per month (that is USD), and you could live better if you had more.
My personal rent is very reasonable at about $300/mo, but I'd have a hard time finding that again if I moved out of the place I'm in. Probably would pay closer to $500+, but food (unless you demand American treats constantly) is cheap and transportation is cheap.
I ride the Metro and use black and white taxis when I move around.
Alcohol is NOT a problem to get. Beer and wine anyway are accessible and unless you are quite the drinker you can buy what you need from Duty Free when you travel or make friends that will bring it to you.

Several publications are available here. We have the Internet to receive nearly anything you can't get sent in easily.

I like Cairo, but I think it would be fun to try PP too.

Good luck with your decision.

Oh yeah... And medical care is dirt cheap here and VERY GOOD too.

I really appreciate all the responses! It sounds like budget is a significant factor in the answers; mine will be about $500-600 a month in either place. That has to cover housing, local transportation, food, entertainment, but doesn't have to cover medical or airfare. I believe the org. I will be working for might be able to house me in PP, which would give me some more spending money.

It sounds like that might be a tough budget for Cairo, but not for PP?

Oh and I will be working for an NGO.

Thanks again, these responses are interesting.

Can your NGO give you a breakdown of living costs in each place in terms of rent, food, transport, taxes, etc? It would seem that someone on the ground could provide this info.

Having housing provided would be a significant savings, and would also remove a major headache, IMO, if you are only there part time. If you like living there, you can always try to stay on with the NGO or look for permanent work and then long-term housing of your own. However, having to find a place to live while also dealing with a brand new country, job, language, culture, city/neighborhood, transportation, government work permit issues, etc is not always a lot of fun. I have moved internationally 4 times and getting to know the local customs can be belwiderling. For example, in Asia landlords typically require 2 and sometimes 3 months rent as a deposit and leases are not tentant-friendly (you have to do pest control, service air con units, etc); in Switzerland, when you leave a flat YOU have to PAY the landlord to repaint your vacated apartment. There are lots of little things you don't know about renting until you live in the place and deal with the local customs. For a short term stay I am not sure it is worth the hassle.

I don't know what type of papers you need to rent an apartment in Cambodia or Cairo, but in many countries you need a valid work permit or other long-term stay visa to be able to rent long term. These are things the volunteer organization needs to sponsor you for and should be giving you advice about. Doing any kind of work on a tourist visa is generally not allowed, you should read the immigration rules for each country. In some countries, you have to apply for this type of visa before you arrive, and you can't switch from a tourist to a work visa without leaving the country first and applying from outside.

Anyway, for Cambodia you might try this yellow page listing of apartments at http://www.yellowpages-cambodia.com/...ed-apartments/. Some of the top line luxury "serviced apartments" seem to be in the US$500-700 range per month. That is for a 1-bedroom fully furnished with linens, daily maid service, a pool, full air conditioning in all rooms, utilities, internet access, etc. Many of these seem to be in quite central locations for PP. You probably don't need all of that, so you can work downwards from there in terms of price, they will give you an idea of the sort of "top" of the market for short-term rentals.

For Cairo and or Cambodia, I would also try craiglslist and vrob.com. And also post this question on the Lonely Planet board if you have not already.

Hi Cicerone, thanks again for all the advice. For the Cairo job I have gotten a pretty good guide to low-budget Cairo living written by the org.'s interns over the years, haven't gotten anything quite like that for PP but am in touch with classmates who spent summers as interns over there.

My decision definitely doesn't only come down to budget--I definitely would love info. about quality of life, ease of access to places outside the city on weekends, and also ease of making friends w/ locals (as a female).

thanks!

mp413

p.s. the visa thing doesn't concern me as I am taking over an established position, I'm pretty sure the orgs. have that figured out.

I think either would offer a great experience. IMO, people from the Middle East have a sense of hospitality that is second to none, and I think you would find Cambodians to be extremely friendly and accepting (you just might not get invited home for dinner quite as often as you may in Cairo). Making local friends in either is hard to say. I have not lived in Egypt and can't speak about whether you would have any issues as a single female making friends or socializing (esp. with men), the above poster does not seem to think so. I would say having lived about 15 years in Asia that you would not have any issues in an Asian culture as a woman traveling, living or working on your own. I believe either place would offer the opportunity to meet expatriates from all over the world which may become your principle source of friendships in any event. Either would expose you to a completely different culture. A hard choice indeed.

The visa thing should concern you, the fact that you are taking over an existing job is irrelevant. You should get them to start processing the papers. I have no idea about how lax or not lax Egypt or Cambodia is about whether you need a work visa before you enter the country. Hong Kong could care less and will let you in on a tourist visa and you can later get a work permit (well for most people, I assume you hold a US passport or Canadian, EU or Swiss). Switzerland on the other hand, requires that your work visa be processed before you arrive and will give you a hassle if you try to apply for one in-country while on a tourist visa. (I had mine well in place before I moved to Switzerland.) I don't know where on that spectrum Cambodia or Egypt lies, but the US State Department website indicates that for Egypt "Foreigners are generally not allowed to change residency status from non-working to working status while in the country." That says to me that if your NGO, who intends to post you in 2 months, has not started the process to get you an Egyptian work visa, then something is going on that you should at least ask them about. There is poster soon this board whose son went to India with a volunteer organization and who worked on a 6 month tourist visa, and now wants to stay longer and the India government's rules are that he has to fly all the way back to the US and apply for the work visa from the US. Cambodia or Egypt may have the same rule; I would not want to see you in the position. This is something you should take a proactive approach on, as volunteer orgs can get it wrong. (As the India NGO clearly did.) Assuming you are a US citizen, go to http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis and see the "consular information sheets" Cambodia and Egypt, then go to the websites for their embassies in the US and read what the rules are. You may be able to start the application process yourself, many countries permit this and all your employer needs to provide is an employment letter.

If you determine that you don't need a work visa to enter the country, you of course need a tourist visa to travel to Cambodia and Egypt, you an get them on arrival but need to have all the documents (including a passport photo for Cambodia), see the links above on how to apply for that, you have to apply for this yourself your NGO cannot.