Trip Report of a different kind - Tanzania

Reply

Nov 23rd, 2005, 10:58 AM
  #21
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,553
bat,

You are right. The same language, on second glance, appeared in my original invoice. The problem that I have with this is I would expect that ATR would have client at each Piaya and Olosokwan...it is not as if they are going to shut down Piaya.

Tomorrow the fun begins when ATR starts earning their money for taking a booking from a potentially very difficult client.

Any opinion on what Masek will be like?
Roccco is offline  
Reply With Quote
Nov 23rd, 2005, 10:59 AM
  #22
bat
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,790
rocco:
Somehow I missed your earlier post that it came with your latest update because of your recent payment. I think that you will find that it is not a new addition. As I indicated the language has been in my spreadsheets going back to May.
You can find the location fo the various Loliondo camps on Eben's website.
bat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Nov 23rd, 2005, 11:07 AM
  #23
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,354
Rocco

Nomad Olosokwan and Nomad Piaya is the same camp (Better known as Nomad Loliondo Safari Camp). It's either in one place or the other.

Right now they should be getting ready to move from Olosokwan to Piaya.

Sayari moved last Friday from the Mara to Piaya.

There are no camps at Lake Masek. The camp is called Nomad Serengeti Safari Camp and it will be placed near Lake Ndutu as soon as the Ndutu area turns greener. In the case of overbookings, the NCA authorities may allow camps to be set up at Lake Masek but it is not the normal case.

The Nomad Serengeti and Loliondo Camps are exactly the same. My pics of Nomad Loliondo will show you what Nomad Serengeti looks like.
Eben
climbhighsleeplow is offline  
Reply With Quote
Nov 23rd, 2005, 11:17 AM
  #24
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,553
Eben,

Okay, thanks for this. That means that the camp is either at one location or the other and that I will not be stuck up at Olosokwan while other ATR customers are enjoying Piaya...is this correct?
Roccco is offline  
Reply With Quote
Nov 23rd, 2005, 11:17 AM
  #25
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,222
I know we're now dealing with Rocco's issues (again?! ), but as an aside, every time Eben says something about short-drop or thunderbox toilets, I think "What on earth does that mean, exactly???" Guess I'll be finding out.

And though I've become terribly smitten with Sayari based on the go-safari photos, I console myself with "Oh, I think I'll like Nomad better because I prefer all-white linens."

Thanks again, Ebern, for more food for thought.
Leely is offline  
Reply With Quote
Nov 23rd, 2005, 11:19 AM
  #26
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,222
Eben--sorry for the typo in your name.

Rocco, I thought he meant that they move fr. one lacation to the other. You will be either at Piaya or Olosokwan. Perhaps I'm mistaken?
Leely is offline  
Reply With Quote
Nov 23rd, 2005, 11:20 AM
  #27
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,222
Gawl, I just can't seem to type today.
Leely is offline  
Reply With Quote
Nov 23rd, 2005, 12:52 PM
  #28
bat
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,790
Rocco:
Here is my understanding that I learned from reading Nomad's, Asilia's, and Paul Oliver's websites plus lots of patient explanations from Eben--and seems consistent with what Eben just said. They DO shut down the camps and relocate them seasonally within Loliondo and within the Serengeti. ATR's so-called "Masek" camp is Nomad's serengeti camp placed near Ndutu for the migration. [Although it's really in the NCA--so even for Nomad it is a bit of a misnomer.] Around June or so they relocate to the western corridor [ATR's confusing so-called Mbalageti camp]. Similarly they move their Loliondo "Olosokwan" camp to the Piaya area soon.
Sayari does the same thing. [Sayari calls it Sayari Mara and Sayari Piaya according to the Paul Oliver website.]

The Asilia group also has its "Olakira" camps that move from Ndutu to central to Soit Sambu [this is from Paul Oliver's website]. So, just as with Nomad, they are recommending splitting time between their 2 camps--Olakira and Sayari--wherever they are located for a particular time of year. see http://www.paul-oliver.com/safaris/s...s_olakira.html

But I do think you should ask the ATR agent--why do they put that language in? It does not make sense to say that there is even a possibility of being in Olosokwan in Feb/Mar. So why say it?

Leely:
I was thinking along the same lines about you--you had said that the luxe camping was not exactly your style, at least in the past, and so I think that Nomad may actually be a better fit. To console myself after looking at the Sayari pictures I am saying that too much luxe can be out of sync with the whole camping, back to nature, rusticity with comfort goal. Eben DON'T say anything--if I am delusional let me remain so. At least through this trip.

Plus, I remember the Amex article that made the simplicity of the Nomad experience sound better, in its own way, to the more removed-from-the-bush experience of a Singita. That is my story and I am sticking with it. [-(


Eben you are a BAD, BAD boy telling him that Alexsandra would prefer Sayari. > yea, yea, the devil made you do it!
bat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Nov 23rd, 2005, 02:14 PM
  #29
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,222
bat,
You're right. I don't think I'll miss any added luxuries; they don't matter much to me, anyway.

But why aren't Rocco and Alexsandra staying at Arusha Coffee Lodge?
Leely is offline  
Reply With Quote
Nov 23rd, 2005, 02:18 PM
  #30
bat
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,790
shhh
bat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Nov 23rd, 2005, 02:44 PM
  #31
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,553
Leely,

The Arusha Coffee Lodge was my first choice but the fine people at ATR said that Moivaro Coffee Lodge would be more convenient for each my road transfer to the half marathon and for my road transfer to Manyara Tree Lodge. The race starts near Moshi. Given that I am so ignorant of Tanzania, I am an easy target!

Should I insist on an upgrade to Arusha Coffee Lodge? It does look like a nicer place and with a 3 night visit, I really should insist on the best.
Roccco is offline  
Reply With Quote
Nov 23rd, 2005, 03:54 PM
  #32
bat
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,790
Rocco:
Africa Dream Safari has a map showing the hotel locations vis a vis each other. Hard to tell what the drive time is though. ADS says that Arusha Coffee Lodge is about an hour from the
the Kili airport, I think that Moivaro is half hour or so. Arusha CL is west of town, Moivaro is east. I think that they are correct that Moivaro is closer to Moshi (closer to Arusha NP also I believe)--but how much more drive time?--climbhigh will know.

My earlier jokes aside, facilities wise-Eben and leely are probably correct that, based on your posts, you would prefer Arusha Coffee Lodge and Sayari--so go ahead and inquire but I think that:

a) ATR's policy will be a hefty cancellation fee at this point;
b) who knows if they can book Sayari;
c) who knows if Sayari is available.

It does not cost to ask. Then you will know--and if not, you have a FABULOUS trip planned. The Nomad guides will be excellent. You have ultra luxe built in at the beginning of the safari with Manyara Tree Lodge and Crater Lodge--and ultra luxe at the end on Zanzibar.

http://www.africadreamsafaris.com/lodges/arusha.html
bat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Nov 23rd, 2005, 04:08 PM
  #33
bat
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,790
Eben:

Looking at your maps do I understand that the Olakira Soit Sambu camps are in Loliondo? Basically a similar location to the Nomad camps in that area?

Is the Sayari camp in the Serengeti NP or in a private concession bordering it?

Final question (for the moment!)how do I find the UAE hunting concession on your map?

Thanks--so much fun and educational too!
bat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Nov 23rd, 2005, 05:04 PM
  #34
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,553
Eben,

Well, it has taken me awhile but I have finally looked over your website. Great job!

As far as Sayari goes, I am sayari but although it looks nicer than the Nomad camps, I have been spoiled by Southern Africa and even a Puku Ridge still seems preferable on the accomodations. So, the Nomad accomodations will do just fine.

Also, I really don't see that much of a difference between Arusha Coffee Lodge and Moivaro Coffee Lodge, so I will just stay put.

Between Manyara Tree Lodge, Crater Lodge, the Palms Zanzibar and the Serena Inn Zanzibar, I do hope that whatever hardships (tongue in cheek) are encountered at Moivaro, Olduvai Camp, Nomad and Mbuzi Mawe, will not cause me to make use of my emergency evacuation insurance!

I do wonder why I was charged so much for Mbuzi Mawe, about $600 pppns. Although it is a Serena camp, it does not appear to be on the same level as Kirawira. Did I just get taken for a ride by ATR or is this the going rate for Mbuzi Mawe. I don't suppose there is a hot air balloon ride thrown in for that rate, is there? Well, there probably should be.

Whatever...I made my deals and in feeling the pressure to get my late February safari booked, I did not do my very best this time around and as they say in Africa, I am paying for my "school lessons" as a result.

Funny thing is that had I any idea of the position that I would be in right now, by May I would likely be headed to Botswana on an extended familiarization trip to Kwando and back to the best of Zambia (for 1/4 of the cost). Oh well, things happen for a reason and I do go into Tanzania with an open heart and an open mind. This report in the original post, however, does raise more concern than it provides peace of mind.

Regarding the Nomad Piaya vs. Olosokwan issue...It seems to me that they should be getting ready to move the camp in the next month or so down to Piaya. If it doesn't move by the middle of January then I will start getting worried.

Sensitive question, but help me understand...do the Maasai have land rights to most areas outside the park? What about within the park?

Also, what are night game drives like in East Africa? I believe I will have the opportunity for night game drives at each Olduvai Camp, Nomad Masek and Nomad Piaya.

I apologize if there is any perceived tone of negativity in my posts, as that is not what I am trying to convey. It is just all a mystery to me and I am trying to figure out what to expect.
Roccco is offline  
Reply With Quote
Nov 23rd, 2005, 05:20 PM
  #35
bat
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,790
rocco:
Re the price of Mbuzi Mawe, check my suggestion in the thread I created for you.
bat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Nov 24th, 2005, 06:11 AM
  #36
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,309
Re: “Sensitive question, but help me understand...do the Maasai have land rights to most areas outside the park? What about within the park?”

If I’ve understood things right, the Loliondo area is Maasai community land, and the Maasai have grazing rights. The lands are “Ujamaa Village Lands” and the village government has the final say on entering into agreements with tourism operators etc. The Loliondo hunting concession was given to the UAE company “OBC” completely over the head of the Ololosokwan village – and against the law. The areas within the Serengeti NP are traditional Maasai land as well, but the Maasai have no grazing or other rights whatsoever.

From what Eben tells it appears as if, because of drought, Maasais from other areas are grazing their cattle in Loliondo. That’s what transhumance pastoralism is all about. Maybe Eben knows if the Ololosokwan village find it natural and expect the same favour in return some other time or if there are conflicts.

Let’s hope for rain and that the OBC is driven away.


Nyamera is offline  
Reply With Quote
Nov 25th, 2005, 11:59 AM
  #37
bat
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,790
Eben:
Location, location,location!

I want to follow-up on something you wrote on Rocco's thread. I think that it belongs here with your descriptions of the various seasonal camp locations.

You mentioned that Asilia's Sayari Mara location beats Nomad's Loliondo camp near Olosokwan for the Fall time period.

Here is my question: Does Nomad have a 3rd location for its Serengeti camp? Location 1 (Dec-Mar) is near Ndutu and location 2 (June-July) is in the western corridor. Their website mentions the herd moving after July "north towards Bologonga and the Mara River."

So do they have a "Serengeti" camp they use for that time period in the northwestern serengeti or do they use their Loliondo camp only?

It looks like Asilia has its Sayari Mara and its Olakira Loliondo near Soit Sambu [which seems very close to Nomad's Loliondo near Olosokwan]. So the question is whether Nomad has something comparable--a 2 camp scenario.
bat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Nov 25th, 2005, 12:13 PM
  #38
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,153
Eben,
Just caught up with this thread and wanted to thank you so much for sharing this kind of incredibly precise and useful detail - it is just the kind of stuff I am looking for.

I know I've gone quiet on plans for E Africa next year but the thought is still there... just not wanting to go too far with a dream until I know that we can afford whatever I end up planning...

Kavey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Feb 7th, 2006, 06:46 AM
  #39
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 524
Hi, guys pls chip in any knowledge u have of the below mentioned camps.Eben reading all your reports is making me rethink whether I should stick to nomad's or go with sayari.CCA also should have thier camps available in mid march...

Which camp out of these 3 would be best located in March taking into consideration that some mobile camping companies have a alternative plan available if the area where they have booked camp space is not rich in wildlife(migration)because of unpredictable rains

Also which camp among the above 3 would have the best guides and tracking facilities available. I do have a expert driver guide who is a wizard at spotting cats,so I can do bookings for only accomodation if the guiding is not up to the mark at some camps..

I want to supplement mobile camping with some days in seronera area. What camp or lodge would u suggest if the game drives are to be provided by the camp or lodge or I should stick to my own vehicle driver guide

Lastly how should I divide my time in serengeti for 7-8 nights taking into consideration that I would like to see the migration and many many lions,

Thanks, Sonali
sonali74 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Feb 7th, 2006, 07:23 AM
  #40
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 524
I am sorry it's got to be olakira camp instead of sayari. CCA has written to me that thier camps will be operational in march..
Maybe they will have a lot of issues to iron out as they are just beginning
sonali74 is offline  
Reply With Quote
 


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:43 AM.