That's the problem nyama. When you say "manager" I don't know what kind of business person you are talking about - in Africa. And when I say "manager" you don't know what I consider a manager to be. Can you define a camp manager's responsibilities for me? In my definition of manager they have broad and far reaching responsibilities for the business and staff. A person working at the camp reception desk helping guests with questions to me is staff, not a manager. Now, that person's boss may be a manager but maybe not, they may be a "supervisor". (FWIW, I generously tip staff and guides).

Likewise for salaries. I have no basis for comparison. What may be a good salary in Kenya I could not live on in California. Are you saying that camp managers (as defined) are not paid enough to live decently with their family?


regards - tom

"Are you saying that camp managers (as defined) are not paid enough to live decently with their family?"

Ask them. For my part, I havn't spent a second thought on a career in this business after seeing some of those job offers - compared to standards in our western countries I would call it highly underpaid. One must be a great idealist to take such offer. And as most of them are saying, they're doing it because they love to work in the wilderness and being in conservation, but not because they want to make a career in tourism.

The hospitality and tourism industry are not known to pay high salaries anywhere. Unless one has risen to the heights of their profession with many many years behind them, can you find those making lots and lots of money and still may not be sufficient for some.

I recall meeting the head Food & Beverages Manager at a major Vegas hotel and was shocked to learn what his compensation was, but gratuities are a major portion of their income. Those in the same hotel in Convention Sales, can make lots and lots of money. Under the same roof, big differences.

Of course, this will vary from one company to another, but low pay or what many of us may never consider doing, is up to those who do these jobs. From industry-to-industry compensation will vary widely. We each choose our own poison. Doctor, lawyer, camp manager... pick! Just be happy in what you do!

In another thread Bwino said that she and her husband were paid $1000 per month together when working as managers at a camp in Zambia. They got the job without having any relevant experience and it’s not a bad salary by Kenyan (and probably Zambian) standards, especially considering that they had food and board. I’d definitely take such an offer and I’m not particularly idealistic. Though I think there are managers that earn a lot more. The managers I’ve talked with, or about, have had a very different lifestyle from the staff, with travels abroad etc, so they must have been paid more than Bwino.

"We each choose our own poison. Doctor, lawyer, camp manager... pick! Just be happy in what you do!"

Agreed. But in how many countries do we have equal opportunities for everyone? A government study just revealed that in my country (Germany) this is not the case. So I can count myself lucky that I had the right social background...

Believe it was John F. Kennedy who said "life isn't fair." And, it's not.

There is also the old saying - "Life sucks and then you die". Which is so sadly true for far too many people. But you know for all of us life is at minimum a struggle. For me, for you, we all have difficulties and demons that plague us. If you think someone doesn't struggle through life then you just don't know them well enough.

regards - tom

This is to Tom

You mention about managers world wide not having much contact with guests. In the safari industry managers spend a lot of time with the guests so it is a bit different. That is also often the hardest part of the job. So why not tip a manager in the safari industry if he/she has made an extra effort to chat to you when he/she would probably rather read a book or go and sit intheir house and relax.

I really would hate to have had you as a guest and your liitle tip just shows what you actually think of the managers out there.

My home like you or someone guessed is not actually in Johannesburg. There are a couple of us who chat on Fodors. I will not tell you who though. Yes this is daltond. I do not know who burnout is though. Believe me or don't I don't really care. You can read the threads and see the differnt style of writing etc. As of now though I still would like to be able to discuss issues so it will only be me using this computer. As the editors said they will ban me if I use another name or even if someone else uses this computer.

Tip the managers though.

I really started something, yikes!
It is interesting because tipping has become such a hot bed subject relating to what is appropriate (guest's perspective) to what's deserved (service industry employee perspective). Guildlines are helpful but I do not think there is a right or wrong answer because as it has been written numerous times there are cultural biases when it comes to tipping.
Even in nice hotel where I am sure the concierge gets paid reasonably well I still tip them for getting me show tickets or a hard to get restaurant reservation so why not tip a manager who is in fact serving as a liason and will many times go out of their way to insure your stay is pleasurable. If I have dietary restrictions and the manager confirms them on arrival and makes sure I receive an alternate meal or provides other extra services then I think it is absolutely appropriate to thank them in some way whether monetarily or with a gift. I always struggle with the concept of giving a tip/gift to a manager who simply is performing the job for which they are paid. This also presents a problem because some managers go out of there way to provide more but in an invisible way. I might not know just how much they have done and their personality is not to be obvious and point out what they have done so there help is transparent. These may actually be the best managers but how to judge?
Actually, while I brought up the tip box at Chitabe I am now more uncomfortable about NOT giving a gift or gratuity to the mangager at Savuti who went out of his way to install a power point in my room first for recharging batteries when I mentioned I might need this. I hope to remedy this the next time I meet him unless I can find a way to get something to him another way.
While I loved Chitabe and was very lucky to have been given the family room for just my son and me there were numerous problems with the water heater, room safe and meals that were not dealt with well. To then expect a gratuity and be obviously grumpy when we left at what I guess they considered inadequate (I had mentioned the problems to the manager at least 3 times) left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. Yet the guide, who had a rather stoic personality that I couldn't read, gave both my son and me a big hug not just a handshake or back slap(a first for me) which I really think spoke volumes about our experience with him.
Regards,
Eric

"As the editors said they will ban me if I use another name or even if someone else uses this computer."

This is quite interesting because it tells us that Fodor's stores (and reads) much more on our computers than only user names and passwords, as told on the logon page. A look in Fodor's Privacy Policy is recommended.

Tip: If several people are using a single computer, and more than one of these people want to post at Fodors, you should delete all Fodors-related cookies after leaving (or before starting) the online session. Consult your web browser's documentation/online help for how to delete cookies.

nyama said: "This is quite interesting because it tells us that Fodor's stores (and reads) much more on our computers than only user names and passwords..."

I believe that you are mistaken. I do not believe that Fodor's stores anything unusual on our computers. I'm not going to explain how Fodor's knows about those who use multiple handles with duplicitous intent (it's certainly easy enough to figure out), but it sure isn't by placing information on our computers.

Seems to me that the bad guys in this scenario are those who use multiple handles, and not Fodor's.

rizzuto, do you think the current multiple-personality is the same guy who was harassing you last year, the one who was banned at least six times? Sounds like him at times.

rizzuto: "...but it sure isn't by placing information on our computers."

Would be interesting to learn how this should happen if users use different email addresses for their accounts and are hidden behind a firewall where thousands of computers share the same IP address. "...if someone else uses this computer" was the important part in my quote.

Bill_H: yes, I agree.