Tipping & other extra expenses
 

Hi,

Getting closer to my trip to Kenya and I'm wondering about the tipping.
Can you all please tell me what is reasonable tipping and what is the absolute minimum in each situation. Also, if you know of any extra expenses I should be thinking about that's great info too.
We have a private guide/driver and me and my brother have cooked up an itinerary together with a provider. Only me, my brother, and the guide. 14 days half in resorts/camps and half camping.

According to the provider these are their recommendations:
Restaurants: 10% of the total bill when service is not otherwise included

Porters / Hotel Staff: US $1 per baggage handling or per day

Stewards and Other Camp Staff: $1 - $2 per person per day (note that some luxury properties have a single staff tip box for everyone)

Private Camping: US $4 - $5 per person per day to be divided among staff

Driver / Guide: US $5 - $15 per person per day


The first two are more than reasonable, but the rest I'd like help with.
In a resort, should we be running around giving every single personel 1-2 USD every day. So if 15 persons work there we should give 120USD extra, per person, in tipping for a four day stay there???

5-15 USD, five to fifteen???, a day per person to the guide? WHY? Arn't they getting payed by the big money we already payed for the trip??

And the private camping. If we only have one personel he geets 4 per person per day and if they are 4 personel they only get 1 each per day. ??.

Please help explain all this. I've traveled a lot around the world but never Africa. Tipping is concidered an extra bonus given for some extra deed we would like to premiate for, not a daily must for personely that should be getting the pay from what we already payed for the trip and arrangements.
I'm confused as to why it works this way in Africa and why diluting the meaning of tipping.

These sums, with my salary, are enormous extra costs. I knew about tipping but had no idea that the trip would get THAT more expensive because of forced tipping.

Thanks for helping me out.

There are plenty of threads on this board re tipping. You can do a search and get much of the info you need.

Generally, I figure $20/day/person (you and your travel partner) to be distributed as: Guide, $10/person/day; Camp Staff, $5/person/day; If you have a tracker, $5/person/day.

Tips are given after the service, not daily (unless you're somewhere for 1/dy). If same guide entire trip, then on last (14th) day; camp staff when leaving a particular lodge/camp; same for tracker.

At city (Nairobi or Arusha) hotels, usually for porters @ $1/bag (in/out)and $2/day for hotel housekeeper.

Unless, someone, somewhere goes over and above providing a special service, you can tip separately... there shouldn't be any other tips required.

The above is a guideline. Of course, you can tip less, but more often visitors tip more.

Tips have nothing to do with the salary given the guide/driver, camp staff, etc. which is often small compared to wages elsewhere in the world.

What kind of camping are you doing? Unless it's "luxury" mobile camping, you usually just have a cook along who also sets up camp, not a full staff. Confirm this with your tour operator. For lodge/camp staff, I usually leave a pooled tip. Use Sandi's suggestions as a guideline. You can tip at the conclusion of your stay (for lodge/camp staff) or conclusion of services (for your driver/guide and cook). You probably won't have a tracker. It's that common in East Africa, particularly if your tour operator is providing the vehicle and driver/guide.

Should read &quot;It's <i>not</i> that common...&quot;

Thanks for those guidelines.

I'd still like an explanation to this weird way of working tips. That's not how tips should be used.

Please, also concider that you can't compare wages between countries. There are a lot of factors to concider, like the expenses you need to pay each month, your true needs each month (just like it's different between the country and the city) and for ex. how much bread and milk/water you can buy for that salary.

$15 per day is still a lot, for me, but of course, we have different wages all of us tourist, coming from different countries with differen professions, who go there and for others that sum might not be much at all.

When you consider travel anywhere, it's not simply selecting an itinerary, that's going where you wish, staying at accommodations that suit, provide activities and tours... at the amount you wish to pay.

You then have to consider getting to your destination (airfare), whether visas are required, what inoculations or meds must be taken and visit to the physician, clothing that has to be purchased, camera/s and related supplies, binoculars, suitcase, special shoes or equipment, meals and sightseeing not included, ATM and credit card fees, trip insurance... and yes, tips. All of these and probably more will add (a few thousand dollars) to that initial price that looked so attractive.

For any trip, one should considered these costs before you book and pay that deposit. And, if this cost will take you over your projected budget, then you may have to look for another destination.

I normally don't like to get involved with such questions but having just returned, I feel an obligation to make a case for generous tipping. The guides and camp staff don't make much money, many have a college degree and can't find any work. The unemployement in Bostwana is over 45%. Tourisim is an important part of the overall income of these countries but the owners don't necessarily share their profits in a generous way. My suggestion would be to cut your safari short by a day and take the money saved and tip generously. Once you meet and interact with these people you will feel it was worthwhile. In addition, the guides in East Africa and South Africa work quite hard. Driving under the conditions that they do would wear out even a New York cabbie in just one day. These guides work continually, often acting as spotters and drivers.
Regards, Chuck

Tipping varies so much around the world that it's really important to have an understanding of the customs and the economic situation wherever you're going so you can act accordingly. I have a friend who's Chinese and I won't go to restaurants with her here because she doesn't tip. Apparently, tipping is uncommon in China. But here, servers are paid only minimum wage, if that, and must make their living from tips. My friend would do fine in France, however, where being a waiter is a much more well-paid position and tips--or only minimal ones--aren't expected. Safarichuck gives a great opinion on why tipping is important to the people who are working for you on your safari. Think of it in terms of paying $150 for a pair of athletic shoes. That money certainly isn't going to the people who earn $1 an hour making them.

Sandi:
I thought it was clear that I'm used to travelling all around the globe, so however correct your remarks on seeing to all the costs around the main package deal, it does not help me. All costs, including tipps, have been considered.

The deal here is that you are all confusing tips with salary. A tip is supposed to be something given for the extra service you receive and that you want to show your appreciation for.
Most people simply accept thing in the world as they are, but you WOULD react if suddenly when you arrive to Argentina airport security guys, working for low salaries, demand a tip for keeping the airport safe for you, or the hotel receptionist &quot;demanding&quot; a tip for her help.
What about when u go on a boat tour, either luxury or sightseeing in a town, do you give a tip to all involved in that tour?

You are seeing tipping the wrong way, you are destroying the value of the meaning of tipping.

Btw, I've saved for over 4 years for this trip and I chose Kenya as safari destination, and I've searched the best prices, all because of my less than rich bank account.
I can't travel somewhere else as I can't see Rhino, cheetah, lion, and many other animals.
I'm there for the animals, not any human.
I work to save the world (animals and environment), mostly from humans, and am paying for that in bad salary but feeling good about it.

I still see your view but I would wish more of you would act to change those ways. They should get very good pays from the employers. The employers are making good money on this.

The guide/driver, especially, deserves a good pay, but it's not me who should pay his salary with &quot;tips&quot;.

I will pay tips, but according to service provided and not to conventions set out as salary system.
I wanted a guideline and explanation to the weird system. I got the guide and in part an explanation, that I thank you for.

Kmania:
I support your chinese friend. It is not my problem the salary system is wrong for the waiters in your country. They will have to get together and demand a real salary then.

When you buy something you should get all fees + charges + anything else included so that you know what you will have to pay at the end of the day/meal/etc.. You shouldnt have to carry around a bunch of extra money for every event just cause you got no clue what the final tag will end up at.
Clear simple price tags, no hidden prices anywhere.

Btw, $150 sneakers is something I've never afforded. Not even nice evening shoes for that price is affordable for me. My sneakers cost $50-70 at most and I buy new ones every 4 years.

I see your point of view, all of you, but you all have to realize that we are not all as fortunate to have that kind of money and you can't tell someone that has lived and loved cheetah's all his life and saved for years for a trip, that he should chose another part of the world for a trip. And you can't cut the trip so short that you will regret what you did as it's a once in a life time trip.

If we act against the wrong ways of the tipping system they, after a while, won't get any good guides and the tourist will drop in amounts, or complain on the quality, and then they will see the need to giving the hired guides/drivers a good salary and add that charge on the package cost instead.

Changes don't come from just moving along with the systems.

Again, I do thank you for your view and post though.

WayuU - You seem to know the way you believe the world should work; but you do not accept that this is not how the world works in a lot of places.

In many parts of the world a tip is a gratuity for the service provided, not just for extra service; extra service gets a bigger tip. In most places I have traveled we tip the porters that carry our bags, the housekeeping staff that cleans our room, the taxi driver that takes us to a restaurant, the bartender and waiter that serves us, the tour guide/driver if we take a tour.

There is a saying that if one cannot afford the meal with a tip; then one cannot afford that restaurant.

I think thats a bit harsh and perhaps a very US-centric view of the world.

A tip should be exactly that and not obligatory in the same way that it is in the US. It is for the lodge owners to ensure that their staff is paid a decent living wage and not for visitors to make up the difference between a poor wage and a degent wage with tips. I am afraid constant tipping by visitors leaves no incentive for lodge owners to start paying decent wages.

Perhaps we need to assess what our home currencies are worth in the countries we visit and tip accordingly and in the local currency if required. Just because the US dollar is the smallest denomination note available, doesnt make is the 'right' tip amount.

For example - At current exchange rates, the pound is worth 2 US and I am not sure a lot of people would take kindly to British people going around the world handing out pound coins (or its dollar worth) in tips, effectively doubling what Americans are used to handing out as tips.

Amol,

I think you can &quot;tip&quot; in any major currency.....dollar, pounds, euro....

Hari

Hari

Its not the currency of tipping that I have issues with. Its the amount that seems to be multiples for American units thats the issue.

You live in India and know as well as I do that 10 rupees is a reasonable tip for a porter. Yet foreign tourist setting this figure to $1 or 1 Euro (note there are convenient round figures) simply doesnt do any good to the local economy.

Do you agree that this is a fair argument?

Wouldn't it be wonderful if people the world over were paid a salary they could live on and not be appreciative of tips (To Insure Propper Service) when rendered from those they serve, drive, clean, etc.

You are under no obligation to tip, but you should know that if the service you receive from the guide, camp/hotel staff and others who make your trip wonderful, it's a show of appreciation (not a law) to proffer a tip with a gracious thank you to these individuals. Believe me, with few exceptions, these service people deserve tips.

Wages/salaries aren't the same worldwide (the idealism you show won't happen in my lifetime or yours). Those who work, especially in tourism, in many &quot;third-world&quot; countries make very little on a daily basis. And, while tipping might not be a custom in some countries (either from where a visitor resides or destination one is visiting), then one isn't obligated to do so.

Since you asked the question, it's of concern... and you got some replies. If $15/day is more than you can afford, then so be it. Tip as you see fit with the budget you have, or not!

As to the police in Argentina or receptionist assisting with some service that's his/her job, expecting a tip... kind of reminds me of the Tip Jars that have popped up everywhere from Starbuck's, the dry cleaners, bagel shop or other small business ... give me a break! For pouring a cup of coffee, handing me my laundry... I don't think so!

Yes, whenever i go to any of the major hotels here in India....i see people carry around a whole stack of $1 bills.

Btw, Amol...don't know if you follow the cricket (why would anybody, anymore) but, Tendulkar seems his old self tonight!!! FINALLY!!!

So, gotta go.....will chk back tomorrow!

Not a huge fan (anymore...), but following this game..

WayuU
I'd hate to see the look on your guides face after 14 days of driving you and your brother around, showing you cheetahs and everything else you wanted to see, setting up camp, breaking up camp, keeping you entertained, fed, watered, warm and safe and you show your appreciation with a handshake and a couple of dollars. I feel sorry for that guide!

WayuU,
It appears that you were not seeking tipping advice but rather an excuse not to tip. If you don't get it after reading all of these posts, then forget it you never will. Perhaps you need to save up a bit more cash so that you can pay for the services you receive. In general, Americans tip well, perhaps it's because many of us have earned our way theough Universities and Colleges doing jobs that paid only token wages and so we learned the importance of tipping. I cannot speak for others, but I earned my way through Undergraduate and Medical School in just that way. I remember observing that those individuals who could afford it least seem to tip most generously. If you are as widely traveled as you claim, then pehaps you need to learn a bit more about the culture of the country you plan to visit. To use a U.S. phrase, &quot;Don't stiff the locals&quot;. I certainly hope your countrymen, whatever country that is, don't share your attitude. Remember you choose your destinations and you have the choice of spending one less day on safari and using that savings to pay your guides and supporting staff. This is probably the first post I have ever replied to in the hope the poster would choose NOT to go to Africa.
Good Luck,
Chuck

I do understand Wayuu's questions and point of view. Many is the time I have felt that a tip is obligatory, and not thanks for a job well done.

I don't think Wayuu is trying to 'stiff' anyone.

In some countries (e.g. NZ) people make a point of saying no tips are neccessary for a job well done. In other places, tips are accepted but the tipper is not neccessarily admired, but rather not too bright for not recognizing the value of money.

I think that when places get used to American tourists, the tipping becomes expected and then obligatory. People that don't tip, or that tip comparatively less are then seen as being 'tight'.

Slightly off topic, I often wonder how it is decided here in the US who gets a tip and who dosen't.

People who provide a service get tipped. Why don't you tip the doctor?
Because Professionals aren't typically given tips?

So does that mean anyone with a college degree dosen't get tipped? Guides and concierge staff receive professional training but get tips.

I'd love for any of you to answer this (without the snide comments). This may also help Wayuu understand the American frame of mind...

TIPS - to insure proper or prompt service.

Generally, TIPS go to service personnel - waiters, doormen, bellmen, cab drivers, delivery people, housekeepers, etc.

I'm sure a tip to your physician wouldn't improve the wait time in their office; having your attorney or accountant return your call; the pilot to fly the plane any faster (and of late, let you off the plane :) if it's not getting off the runway.

Take a look at Wikipedia's explanation of &quot;TIP&quot; as the process works throughout the world:

&quot;These payments and their size are a matter of social custom.&quot;

There is nothing specific about East Africa but ground operators are informing travellers of local social customs by giving them suggested guidelines.

Sandi,
You make a very good point. In fact I did postgraduate work in England (I was qualified in both eh U.S. and Britain)and it was the custom to pay professionals their bills in guineas, at that time the value was one pound one shilling = one guinea. I though it amusing and a colleague explained it was the British custom and likened it to tipping in America. It's all about local custom and what the host country expects. When American travel abroad I think they generally try and determine the expectation of the host country and not offend their hosts. Obviously WayuU and Femi have different views, Femi sure dosen't speak for the Americans I know.
Regards, Chuck

I wonder if any of you know if its true that the Japenese seldom tip? Safari guides have told me this - but the reason is founded in cultural etiquette apparently. Their reasonong appears to be that to tip implies that the recipient is incapable of earning enough to support his family without the aid of charity. Hence they don't tip so as not to insult their driver/guide. The drivers apparently like them because they are so courteous and polite, but don't want to drive them if they have a chance of driving another nationality.

True or not - I don't know but would love anyone here to enlighten me if they can please.

In general I have to say I try to tip well, but only if the help is given with a good heart. In summary, I'd like my money taken off me nicely and I have declined to tip a sulky or grumpy driver, but thankfully these are a rare breed.

Femi, Thanks for the heads up on New Zealand but isn't this the Africa Forum? Try your philosophy out in toilets of Egypt.
Regards, Chuck

Hi,

Unless I have overlooked, what's missing from all these posts is the immediate, impact on the underpaid driver/guide/porter/cook etc. when they are not tipped properly. Must their child drop out of school because the parent can't afford the cost of a uniform? Must treatment of an acute infection be declined? Does the family not eat for a day? It is all well and good to say let the economic system work it all out but that leaves far to many people suffering and destitute. My daughters waited tables while in college. The custom in our part of the U.S., maybe throughout, is for the employer to pay half the minimum wage with employee expected to make up the rest through tips. We expect to take our first trip to Africa/Tanzania Jan. 08. We will tip according to local custom.

Cheers,
Robert

Femi, then perhaps WayuU should look for a New Zealand guide for his Kenya trip, then they'll all be happy. ;)

Well said Robert. Consider the impact on the underpaid work staff at the camps. I always place my tips in the camp Tip Box and then slip a bit extra into the hands of people who have gone out of their way to be helpful. The smiles leave a lasting impression, equal to the fabulous Leopard in a tree sighting I may have witnessed in their camp. When traveling in these countries, it is important to keep in mind that unemployement is very high (over 45% in Botswana), Aids and Malaria take an incredible toll on the vigor of these people. Tipping is an important part of their income and goes far to make their lives a bit easier. If at all possible and you are traveling on a tight budget, spend one day less on safari and tip. I would like to see some comments regarding the hard work the driver/spotters and guides do, day after day. It is hard physical work and yet they remain cheerful. If this post offends some of you I'm truely sorry but this is an important facet of support for eco tourisim.
Regards, Chuck

Tipping can be confusing and maybe a bit perplexing when you are from a country where it is not prevalent. When I visit another country I always ensure I am aware of their tipping etiquette so that I know what the norm is and can therefore make my assessment of what is fair for the service I have received. When on a trip I always expect good service therefore I will always account for tipping in my budget if it is a norm in that country. This is what I did when I went on our recent safari and as I expected the service was fantastic throughout and our tips reflected that.

When in a country where tipping is the norm and it ‘makes up’ a persons wage, as in Kenya, I see it as an exchange in that ‘you’ have provided me with the service I expected and my tip (ie the norm) reflects my gratitude of that service. If I was to be dissatisfied with the service I would lower my tip accordingly, conversely, if the person went over and beyond my expectations I would increase my tip accordingly. In a country where it is not the norm but accepted, I see tipping as an additional thanks for an excellent service that has gone above and beyond expectations.

I do think that tipping terrible service in whatever country demeans the service given by those who actually earn their tip and do a good job. I have thankfully rarely been in that situation and certainly wasn’t in Africa:-)

I hope you have a good trip WayuU and that you are given fantastic service that you will feel very happy about rewarding:-D

Mancfi: You said it better than I could.

QueenofDaNile: That does serve to clarify the issue a litle.

Sandi: I wonder, if I tipped the doctor's front-office person, would she sneak me up to the front of the line? Just a thought ;)

Chuck: The OP did say he was widely traveled and was comparing safari customs to what he has experienced in the past.

Mancifi is right!!! When travelling to a country, go by their norms.....if you go to a safari camp, there is a certain etiquette and it is best to ask your travel agent. If in doubt, ask the camp/lodge for their recommendations.

Rgds,
Hari

Are there any safari lodges that pay their staff good wages that reflect the price we are paying per night. Coming from Australia where tipping is not normal I find doing so very stressful. I am prepared to pay for good service but at $2000 per room per night would expect it as a given and that service charges are included. Surely it is the lodge owners who are at fault here for paying poor wages. We are staying 14 nights in safari lodges in South Africa and budgeting $750 for tips. Is yhis enough

kimac~ $750.00 divided by 14 nights is around $54.00 divided by 2 people (I'm assuming it's 2) gives you about $27 a day per person for tips. That is plenty, possibly a bit much but you might even WANT to give more. just don't stress and have a good time!
Yes, at $2000 a night it SHOULD be a given, but it's NOT the way it is in Africa.

Femi - wish it were, but I doubt it would help :) For a regular visit (non-emergency) and I've waited too long (more than 30/min.) I simply reschedule. Hey, my time is as important as the doc. Between travel to/from, time to wait, the actual visit (my doc happens to be quite liberal and affords me all the time I need)... then 2/hrs is more than sufficient time for this slot in my Day-Planner. :) :)

Even at $1,000+/day/person, paid to the high-end lux tour outfitters, who already include the tips for staff, they leave it to the client to handle the gratuities to the guide/driver and tour leader.

A thank you to amolkarnik and Femi for being among the very few who understand my point of view and for being strong enough to support it and for viewing it rationally.
Canary111 seems understanding too.

mancfi wrote:
&quot;I hope you have a good trip WayuU and that you are given fantastic service that you will feel very happy about rewarding :-D&quot;
Thank you mancfi. :)
As I think you understood from my posts, I will be tipping, of course. Depending on the service my tipping will vary.



Bobcaat wrote:
&quot;WayuU - You seem to know the way you believe the world should work; but you do not accept that this is not how the world works in a lot of places.&quot;

That is a key point. Exactly, I do NOT accept how the world works. That's is the big difference between me and 95% of the rest of the worlds population. I try to change it, however futile it might be. I don't give up on making the world a better place. The rest just follow the path of least resistance and at the most pay off some money from their big salaries to satisfy their need to help, be it the Red Cross, WWF, etc..
I know some who do this are genuinely into the charity of their choice and they will try to live environmentally friendly or volunteer their time off to children in need, etc. But we are all too few.
I am betting that most of you that complain to me are at most the ones who pay a little sum of money and then go and sleep well thinking you're doing a great thing. Many of you who complain to me haven't impressed much at all since you have shown a lack of ability to read the posts correctly, twisting them to your own satisfaction, especially such ppl as safarichuck.

I DO wonder how many of you, who complain to me, would change your job and start working for an NCO with minimum wage for the rest of your life because you actually want and do change this world to a better place, however small steps they may be.


QueenofDaNile:
Do not state Wikipedia as a source when you want to point out facts. Wikipedia is managed by everyone and known for it's numerous errors. The founder of Wikipedia has even gotten so tired of all the errors he's now starting a new service where only professionals will be allowed to edit the contents.
I'm not saying that what you stated from that source is wrong, but other sources should be prioritized.


matnikstym:
I don't know where you got entertainment from, but our trip does not say anything about our driver/guide entertaining us. The rest, well, those are specified as included in the itinerary we got. They would have been specified as extras otherwise.



I'm not a fan of the human race, but if more ppl took action instead of following the path of least resistance, then there could still be time to save this sorry race AND a beautiful, wonderful world, soon destroyed.

My post has done at least some good, created a discussion and maybe some will read the posts correctly and reflect on what has been said.
MAYBE a new volunteer or person dedicating her/himself to making changes.

I certainly have taken some posts from complaining individuals seriously, like sandi (and some others). Others like safarichuck just &quot;scare&quot; me :)

_________________________________

&quot;It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value&quot;

WayuU,
Good, that was my intention.
Chuck

Wayu,

Is one really doing a good thing when in the course of trying to change the world one hurts the common man in a third world country?

I admire your sacrifice in helping wildlife. But to not tip properly in accordance with the norm of the country one visits is not helpful nor nice.

I have always felt that tipping is something given for a job done well or over and above expectations. In parts of the world tipping is considered mandatory and although I don’t agree with mandatory tipping, I will always tip in these countries. I do feel strongly though that levels of tipping should be up to the individual and not prescribed.

Very interesting thread that does point out some of the cultural differences amongst people.
I have always told my children that a tip is not a gratuity...it may seem they are one and the same and just a matter of semantics but they are not. I understood that TIP was an acronym for &quot;To Insure Promptness&quot;...hence given before a service in hopes of better or quicker service while a gratuity was given to thank the service person for a job well done.
Obviously those terms have become muddled and gratuities are now considered the norm for some services and not for others.
There was a famous NY restaurant that some years ago took part of the waiters' gratuities and used them to help defray the chefs' salaries. Needless to say, when this became public it created a bit of an issue.
Similarly it would appear to me that when a company can charge $500-1500pppn that the staff ought to receive adequate wages that the tourist should not feel they are the ones paying the majority of the wage while the company's owners reap the financial windfall. Sadly however that is not the case and we choose, maybe not wisely and merely to perpetuate the supplementation the paltry salaries that are paid.
Chuck, I actually had a patient give me $20 when I was a resident after coming to see her in the ER. She felt that I was underpaid and that my service to her on a weekend was above and beyond. I was really taken aback, didn't accept the money but was so appreciative of the act that I remember the experience of over 20yrs ago as if it were yesterday.
I will choose to give as generously as I can and hope that those who are able to afford such luxurious trips recognize their responsibilty to be generous. ( In additon being charitable is everyone's responsibility, but that is a different issue). I do not however believe it is my &quot;right&quot; to tell people how much they have to give but giving guidelines is certainly appropriate.
Regards,
Eric