Staff Turnover
Apr 4th, 2008, 07:20 AM
#1
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Staff Turnover
I have a question for those of you who regularly return to the same camps.
Is staff turnover rife!
I can only comment on 3 camps because I have only ever returned to 3 camps.
Zibilianja
Visited 7 times on each visit new managers on the final visit no managers at all!
6 different guides only Motsamai got repeated and is now at Selinda. None of the others remain!
Lebala
Visited 6 times three sets of managers and 3 different guides Steve K, Spencer and Charles. The last wo are still present the first left because of a family problem.
Lagoon
Visited 6 times 2 sets of managers
4 different guides including Steve K and Charles the other 2 have left, one of whom Rex retired to return to his farm.
What are your experiences.
Is staff turnover rife!
I can only comment on 3 camps because I have only ever returned to 3 camps.
Zibilianja
Visited 7 times on each visit new managers on the final visit no managers at all!
6 different guides only Motsamai got repeated and is now at Selinda. None of the others remain!
Lebala
Visited 6 times three sets of managers and 3 different guides Steve K, Spencer and Charles. The last wo are still present the first left because of a family problem.
Lagoon
Visited 6 times 2 sets of managers
4 different guides including Steve K and Charles the other 2 have left, one of whom Rex retired to return to his farm.
What are your experiences.
Apr 4th, 2008, 11:48 AM
#2
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when it comes to manager couples - most of the remote camps only go for management couples for obvious reasons - they simply cannot cope with being in a remote area for a long time - long time here means more than 9 - 12 month. second reason: they work themselves up under consideration of camp ratings. the same remains with the guides.
a kwando guide/manager tend to change for wilderness, cc africa or sanctuary, ker and downey or desert and delta.
it's most of the time career and lack of opportunities to socialise.
a kwando guide/manager tend to change for wilderness, cc africa or sanctuary, ker and downey or desert and delta.
it's most of the time career and lack of opportunities to socialise.
Apr 4th, 2008, 12:31 PM
#3
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Pippa 13
Where is the answer to my question in your response.
I have friends who have managed the same camp for 4 years.
Why do you select Kwando to comment on when they have the least movement of managers in my examples. Where do you suppose the Zibilianja managers go to?
Where is the answer to my question in your response.
I have friends who have managed the same camp for 4 years.
Why do you select Kwando to comment on when they have the least movement of managers in my examples. Where do you suppose the Zibilianja managers go to?
Apr 4th, 2008, 01:24 PM
#4
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From my experience in Botswana, you have a high turnover of staff in most the camps.
In general I wouldn't say this is a big problem unless all the experienced people are all leaving in a very short timespan.
Personally, if I have a very good time with a guide, I like to be guided by that same person again.
One of the reasons why I like Lebala and Chitabe.
It also seems that most managers are more mobile than other staff. Perhaps some of them, call tell us why.
In general I wouldn't say this is a big problem unless all the experienced people are all leaving in a very short timespan.
Personally, if I have a very good time with a guide, I like to be guided by that same person again.
One of the reasons why I like Lebala and Chitabe.
It also seems that most managers are more mobile than other staff. Perhaps some of them, call tell us why.
Apr 4th, 2008, 06:52 PM
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Ken,
Is there any reason we continue to dwell on these threads? I made an attempt a few days ago to put an end to the other thread - invain! I'm sure the more posts keep going around, the more the reactions that are bound to come around on this forum and as in the other thread, completely irrelavant to a public forum.
RE your question - i think Spencer is the best guide on the planet (He has guided us on 50 plus game drives and will continue to do so!) ...... and i must admit publicly that Spencer does make the difference for me personally (i have not experienced too many other guides or areas as a repeat guest and am pretty damn afraid to make an alternative choice because it's all i know/familiar/amazed). There you go!
I have already mentioned in an earlier thread last year that staff and guide turnover is natural - but, fact remains and i would be the first person to mention to the Kwando management that it is hard to replace people like Jonah or KB or Mothusi (yes, he still free-lances for them and did guide me at Lagoon and lebala last time).
About Zibalianja - i have only been there once and it's a pity that i didn't go there during the glory days as i respect the views shared by yourself, John, Geoff and PL.
Cheers
Hari
Is there any reason we continue to dwell on these threads? I made an attempt a few days ago to put an end to the other thread - invain! I'm sure the more posts keep going around, the more the reactions that are bound to come around on this forum and as in the other thread, completely irrelavant to a public forum.
RE your question - i think Spencer is the best guide on the planet (He has guided us on 50 plus game drives and will continue to do so!) ...... and i must admit publicly that Spencer does make the difference for me personally (i have not experienced too many other guides or areas as a repeat guest and am pretty damn afraid to make an alternative choice because it's all i know/familiar/amazed). There you go!
I have already mentioned in an earlier thread last year that staff and guide turnover is natural - but, fact remains and i would be the first person to mention to the Kwando management that it is hard to replace people like Jonah or KB or Mothusi (yes, he still free-lances for them and did guide me at Lagoon and lebala last time).
About Zibalianja - i have only been there once and it's a pity that i didn't go there during the glory days as i respect the views shared by yourself, John, Geoff and PL.
Cheers
Hari
Apr 4th, 2008, 07:01 PM
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Oh! and Ken - do you not go to Kwara? Spencer found every single sighting and radioed the other guides to come have a look! Partially, because we started earlier than the other trucks - but, also because we went to far and away areas in the search for cheetah and he did find me two different groups of cheetah ( coalition of three, skittish mother and sub adult). Speaks volumes about his work ethic and committment. How many junior guides share the same?
Apr 4th, 2008, 09:01 PM
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I'm not done with this thread - Ken, one of the reasons i am afraid trying alternative options is my cheetah experience (faux pas) at (you know where) from 2007 - completely unacceptable and something that happens in unfamiliar areas or something that is bound to happen in familiar areas with unfamiliar guides/staff.
Apr 4th, 2008, 11:12 PM
#8
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Hari,
I am just interested, I am sure you recall that others have raised this point as a complaint.
All I can comment on is my own experience, I would just like to know what happens elsewhere.
I have been to Kwara once before the days of Little Kwara (Steve K was with us), as I remember it was quite good particularly for Sable, I just prefer Lebala.
I am just interested, I am sure you recall that others have raised this point as a complaint.
All I can comment on is my own experience, I would just like to know what happens elsewhere.
I have been to Kwara once before the days of Little Kwara (Steve K was with us), as I remember it was quite good particularly for Sable, I just prefer Lebala.
Apr 4th, 2008, 11:47 PM
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Ken,
You certainly need to give Little Kwara a chance - very well run by Lizzie and Co. No, i'm not talking of the comfortable accomodations etc etc., but, actually energetic staff that makes the difference! Credit where credit's due - my dad went to Rattray's MM and LK in January. Much preffered LK - neither trying to draw comparisons nor am i trying to push Little Kwara to you.
Oh! and my point in all of the above is - guides and staff certainly do make the difference and interaction is a huge component in any visit. With someone like Spencer or John(our tracker) or Lizzie or Keone - they are examples of a huge component of a brilliant safari.
Yes, the animals were remarkable - cheetahs that i already mentioned and the Kwara leopards that can compete with any in the SSGR for quality, if not, quantity - once again, memorable but not the first thing that comes to mind.
My nephews aged 14 and 8 who went to Selinda main camp and Lebala - the first thing they enquire about is Spencer and Thabo. Once again my point being, staff and guide interaction is a key component. Do i need to go on?????
Rgds
Hari
You certainly need to give Little Kwara a chance - very well run by Lizzie and Co. No, i'm not talking of the comfortable accomodations etc etc., but, actually energetic staff that makes the difference! Credit where credit's due - my dad went to Rattray's MM and LK in January. Much preffered LK - neither trying to draw comparisons nor am i trying to push Little Kwara to you.
Oh! and my point in all of the above is - guides and staff certainly do make the difference and interaction is a huge component in any visit. With someone like Spencer or John(our tracker) or Lizzie or Keone - they are examples of a huge component of a brilliant safari.
Yes, the animals were remarkable - cheetahs that i already mentioned and the Kwara leopards that can compete with any in the SSGR for quality, if not, quantity - once again, memorable but not the first thing that comes to mind.
My nephews aged 14 and 8 who went to Selinda main camp and Lebala - the first thing they enquire about is Spencer and Thabo. Once again my point being, staff and guide interaction is a key component. Do i need to go on?????
Rgds
Hari
Apr 5th, 2008, 04:39 AM
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Hey Ken I thought you were finished with the forums?
No worries though I am not here to have a go or anything but would like to add my piece to the thread.
Couples last longer in general so therefore more couples at lodges. The reason that there is a high staff turnover in general is that the industry is very demanding for one reason. You tend to get tired of demanding people. Another reason is that most people are in the industry for the animals and bush experience. When in one area for a long time you tend to get a bit bored and want to have all the experiences you pictured before your first job so you tend to move on to see different things.
A HUGE reason for managers in Botswana leaving:
Many are South African, the Botswanan government does not like South Africans so they make it very very difficult to get in (a LOT of paperwork proving experience etc). On top of this the Batswana are the worst people to work with on earth. In general they are lazy and know that you are in their country so make it as difficult as possible for you. This is a fact. The amount of expats that get arrested for stupid things just for a night or two (well a lot have - I have not but almost!). The people in Botswana are spoilt and do not really need to work. You also cannot say the words RUBBISH or NONSENSE because these are deemed as swear words. If anyone thinks I am joking no problem, I will not argue the point at all but maybe some other peopler working in Bots now will speak up. In another thread I said I could not wait for Mr Khama to become president as I think he would change this.
No worries though I am not here to have a go or anything but would like to add my piece to the thread.
Couples last longer in general so therefore more couples at lodges. The reason that there is a high staff turnover in general is that the industry is very demanding for one reason. You tend to get tired of demanding people. Another reason is that most people are in the industry for the animals and bush experience. When in one area for a long time you tend to get a bit bored and want to have all the experiences you pictured before your first job so you tend to move on to see different things.
A HUGE reason for managers in Botswana leaving:
Many are South African, the Botswanan government does not like South Africans so they make it very very difficult to get in (a LOT of paperwork proving experience etc). On top of this the Batswana are the worst people to work with on earth. In general they are lazy and know that you are in their country so make it as difficult as possible for you. This is a fact. The amount of expats that get arrested for stupid things just for a night or two (well a lot have - I have not but almost!). The people in Botswana are spoilt and do not really need to work. You also cannot say the words RUBBISH or NONSENSE because these are deemed as swear words. If anyone thinks I am joking no problem, I will not argue the point at all but maybe some other peopler working in Bots now will speak up. In another thread I said I could not wait for Mr Khama to become president as I think he would change this.
Apr 5th, 2008, 07:52 AM
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So I am still awaitng an answer to my question, surely someone has something that is not generalised.
I agree about the difficulties for South Africans working in Botswana, the government has a policy of making work permits as difficult to come by as possible, a similar situation exists in Namibia.
That said I have not been to many camps with managers that are Botswanan.
It is rumoured that many South Africans work without permits on the 3 month tourist visa.
I agree about the difficulties for South Africans working in Botswana, the government has a policy of making work permits as difficult to come by as possible, a similar situation exists in Namibia.
That said I have not been to many camps with managers that are Botswanan.
It is rumoured that many South Africans work without permits on the 3 month tourist visa.
Apr 6th, 2008, 10:03 AM
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"Not many"? - in my current experiences of limited camps - it's been mostly Batswanan.
NB: Both South African and Batswana managers both do a terrific job from the camps i have been to. Comes down to induviduals, i guess and i certainly can't complain and majority of them have been very good to great!
NB: Both South African and Batswana managers both do a terrific job from the camps i have been to. Comes down to induviduals, i guess and i certainly can't complain and majority of them have been very good to great!
Apr 7th, 2008, 02:59 PM
#19
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sniktawk
oops - strange tone
my answer to your question has to be seen as a general one as i understood your question also in general sense!
i chose kwando because i wanted to show the obvious reasons:
change for more upmarket lodges which involves higher salary and reputation within the CV.
e.g. russ left for wilderness for the very same reason.
of course the guide makes the difference when it comes to game drives. but this is the case in any field: always the personality makes the difference - to the better or worse!
interaction between guide and guest is the most important thing as far as i see it.
but i would not go that far to recommend a camp because the guide found specific animal/s. the very same guide might find nothing the next time. when it coms to wildlife it's so difficult to predict what might be seen on a game drive.
generally speaking:
on safari one has to appreciate what one sees.....safari is not a "musical request programme"
oops - strange tone
my answer to your question has to be seen as a general one as i understood your question also in general sense!
i chose kwando because i wanted to show the obvious reasons:
change for more upmarket lodges which involves higher salary and reputation within the CV.
e.g. russ left for wilderness for the very same reason.
of course the guide makes the difference when it comes to game drives. but this is the case in any field: always the personality makes the difference - to the better or worse!
interaction between guide and guest is the most important thing as far as i see it.
but i would not go that far to recommend a camp because the guide found specific animal/s. the very same guide might find nothing the next time. when it coms to wildlife it's so difficult to predict what might be seen on a game drive.
generally speaking:
on safari one has to appreciate what one sees.....safari is not a "musical request programme"
Apr 7th, 2008, 06:27 PM
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Pippa - Russ or Ras as he is known, left for Wilderness as long back as 2005 or thereabouts - why are we using the example now?
But, yes - agree guides do make the difference and Ras himself is fantastic.
But, yes - agree guides do make the difference and Ras himself is fantastic.
