Sabi Sabi Selati or Mala Mala Main?
 

I'm trying to decide between the two camps for a last minute November trip. The prices are within $500 of each other including transportation there. So that isn't a factor...unless the drinks at Mala Mala really add up.
Most important to us are the game drives. But we also want to feel like we got good value for our money.
My concerns...MM doesn't have trackers and it seems to be a larger camp, almost hotel like. But reviews about Selati say you can see the fences and wires, which loses the wilderness impact.
We also looked at Lion Sands which seemed to be a good compromise between the two but they no longer have availability.
Any thoughts or experiences? What would you recommend?

Take a look at this map http://www.sabisand.co.za/ssw-map.html

This web site (and the map) is owned by the trade association of lodge owners in the Sabi Sands. Rob More, one of the owners of Lion Sands is heading it up right now.

MalaMala is not a member but it is the really large unlabled property on the eastern border of the reserve north of kirkman's camp and east of londolozi.

As you can see, Sabi Sabi is two seperate parcels of land. The SW parcel has fence on two sides. The northern parcel has fence on the western side. Guests driving to the SW parcel do pass through a 6 meter gap between the fence on the property of Lion Sands to get from the north to the SW.

Sabi Sabi used to be three parcels of land, but Lion Sands was formed by the More family when they took their land back from Sabi Sabi at the end of a 20 year lease in 2001. Now Lion Sands has an all important River which I will discuss later.

MalaMala is a massive propoerty. I have been to MalaMala many times and two times since the tracker left. IMO the departure of the trackers has improved the overall experience as they were unionized and would not go out after dark. I have had two really amazing night drives at MalaMala since then. Drinks are quite inexpensive and a beer is only about $3.

One thing to consider for November: if the rains have not started then you really want to go somewhere with a River. Lion Sands is built on the Sabi River and the Sand River flows all the way through MalaMala. At the end of the dry season this can be the only source of water at times. I would suggest either property highly. I love both.

I have not been to Sabi Sabi since I was a teeenager in the 80s so I cannot comment with much authority but I would recommend MalaMala very highly for the overal animal viewing. The accomodations are not hotel like. They are hard to describe because they are unique. It is the only safari lodge I have ever been to with a proper lawn...

Are you sure Lion Sands is sold out? I show it sold out on November 10,12, 14,15,16,19, & 20 as of yesterday.

Hope this helps.

Craig Beal - owner - Travel Beyond

We stayed at Selati for our honeymoon in the HM suite (upgraded at no extra charge.) We found the camp to be very romantic and charming. We loved that there were only eight cabins on that property. Wonderful staff, great experience. Can't recommend it enough.

What is your source of information regarding the fence wires being visible from Selati, which is not the case at all. In fact Selati is a charming 8 suite camp styled to reflect the romance of the late 1800's.

Not sure why the owner of TB would suggest that the overall game viewing is better at MM? The Sabie Sand Wildtuin is renowned for its game, so you wont fail anywhere in that category. However I agree with your concern regarding trackers.. these guys are an integral part of a safari so go with a company that has them on the staff. It implies that the company is concerned about the guest experience and is also concerned about their greater community.

Oh and another misleading comment from the owner of TB - The ONLY water sources are NOT the Sand & Sabie Rivers. EVERY lodge in the SSW has numerous ground fed water holes dotted around the veld, so to suggest that if the rains haven't started there will be no water is simply niaive.

Mkhonzo -

Perhaps you need to read what I wrote again. I never said the overall game viewing is better at MalaMala. I cannot compare MalaMala to Sabi Sabi because I have not been to Sabi Sabi since the 1980's. Here is what I said regarding MalaMala:
"I have had two really amazing night drives at MalaMala since the trackers left."
"I would recommend MalaMala very highly for the overall animal viewing."

I have seen the big five every time I have been to MalaMala and Lion Sands over the past five years. Usually every day.

I am surprised to learn from your post above that there is a natural source of water on Sabi Sabi's property. Are you sure? I personally prefer a lodge on a river if I have a choice.

The good thing about Fodors is that most everything is an opinion to filtered by the end user.

Craig Beal - owner - Travel Beyond

FWIW, here is another map of the Sabi Sand reserve area. Don't know how accurate it is for rivers and camp boundaries.
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/...1926a6696g.jpg

regards - tom

As they say in the US "my bad" I interpreted your comment as such. And as I misinterpreted yours you have mine: No I did not say that there was a natural water source at Sabi Sabi I did however say that every lodge in the SSW had a ground fed water holes. Enjoy your lodge on the river, I prefer to be away from river back waters - really bad infestations of mosquitoes - I have an allergy to lantana, so again prefer to stay inland of the sabie river.

I smiled at your comment on the big five, my noteable experiences include a python catching and eating a young impala, actually spent the full three hour game drive watching that & didn't see one of the big five. On another occasion I walked with a tracker Richard Ndubane who regaled stories of the veld and taught my how to make rope with "mother-in-laws-tongue", dig for water in a dry river bed and how to follow a honey guide for the honey. Awesome experience and again I didn't see any of the big five in my three hour morning walk.

You should go back to Sabi Sabi - it actually is a pretty cool place and I think a way different to what it was in the 80's. Actually I suspect that they employ perhaps some of the most knowledgeable guides and trackers that I have met in the business.

Thanks Mkhonzo - Sabi Sabi is on my "short list" next time I go to South Africa!

Craig

I have been to both camps and I think you will not be disappointed with either of the camps. I think at Mala Mala the game viewing is perhaps marginally better. At Sabi Sabi, due to having no river frontage one of the animals they see a little less frequently (4 to 5 days a week instead of every day) is buffalo. This information is from looking through their sightings book, although I have personally seen buffalo there every day. As far as the lodge itself is concerned, as well as the staff and ranger quality, I would say Sabi Sabi comes out tops.
Onne from Wild Wings Safaris

Thanks everyone for your help. It sounds like either one will be a good choice.

We really prefer the style of the Selati camp. It seems more initmate but there really aren't a lot of reviews/info to be found on it. Except a few that say that there is a tendency to see more vehicles because the land is smaller and that the fence is visible on drives (not from the lodge). This has helped clear that up a lot.

Does anyone know how many people are in the vehicles with you at each of the lodges?

Hi HCart

Never been to Sabi Sands but have been to Lion Sands and MalaMala. I am an absolute fan of MalaMala and now go nowhere else. It is a far larger property, and in my experience, I do have better gameviewing there than at other SSW lodges I have been to - for example, I saw 25 different leopards during my last stay this year, and some leopards I saw more than once. I do stay a lot longer than most people, but even so, with the smaller reserves, they would not have 25 different leopards for me to see!

My issue with Sabi Sands is the number of people in vehicles - I have seen with my own two eyes on over a handful of times, 10-12 people in a vehicle, true some were children, but way too many for safety I would have thought. So you would need to clarify the number in your vehicle for sure. MM usually have no more than 6 unless a family group of 7 may have the use of one vehicle. I can also see Sabi Sands lodge from a fairly well used road, don't know which lodge it is or if the traffic affects your stay.
November is a fairly dry time so water is essential for viewing and this is where MalaMala is helped by the length of the Sand River from north to south in the property. A lot of the ground fed water holes to tend to be dry by November, though many properties do have artificially fed water holes.

Just a matter of interest for me regarding your comments here and in the past MKhonzo, but were you ever a ranger or have worked at Sabi Sands - something makes me feel that is the case.

Kind regards

Kaye

I don't know if this is always the case, but when we stayed at Selati, there were only four in our car in addition to the tracker and ranger.

"IMO the departure of the trackers has improved the overall experience as they were unionized and would not go out after dark."

Sorry, this is utter rubbish. My visit to MM was when they had trackers and there was no issue with night drives. And having no trackers\spotters (even the way MM under utilised them) makes a big difference.

Tanky,

Good thing that I said IMO. That means "in my opinion".

If trackers add so much to the game drive experience why are so many of the the camps in the latest Conde Nast top 50 safari lodge list ones that don't have trackers?

Yes - it is a magazine so take it with a grain of salt but the entire list is based on readers voting not on writers opinion.

I am not knocking trackers and I think they are especially good at the &Beyond camps but you don't need them to have an awesome safari.

I did have a few night drives at MalaMala when they had trackers. Typically this was the drive to the lodge after sundowners.

Craig Beal - owner - Travel Beyond

Just got back from an extensive trip throughout Africa (we spent 4 weeks on Safari in different countries). We stayed at both Mala Mala and Ulusaba while at Sabi Sands. I have to say I will definitely be returning to Mala Mala! We had great sightings at both camps; Mala Mala has their own land whereas other camps share their properties and you're always running into other vehicles.

Ulusaba was the only camp in the 7 we visited that used a tracker (something brand new to us), and it didn't make any difference as far as the abundance of animals we saw.

I did prefer Mala Mala's method - the guides had radio headsets (so you didn't have to overhear radio noise) to speak with one another, and some guides who were not with guest would go out beforehand and locate animals to make it easier when the guests went out.
I LOVED the whole experience at Mala Mala, your guide is with you for all your meals and is always happy to help you in any way (Chris almost became a part of our 7 member family trip). The guides are incredibly knowledgeable, helpful, and courteous.

Welcome Kaitai. Where's home for you?
I've been to MM three times and agree with you.
Four weeks on safari, great, do tell more. What other countries, camps, etc.

regards - tom

Oh, also Kaitai, if you'd like to tell us more about your safari, probably best if you start a new thread about it. Hope you do.

regards - tom

Hi Tom,
This is brand new to me (I just had to sign in for this because I had to share my amazing experiences).... This was a family trip (7 members including my in-laws who are in the 70s and my 2 year old son- who went on EVERY game drive with us, save for Ulusaba where he was not permitted). We travelled extensively through Kenya, Rwanda, and South Africa .... I'll start a new thread once I figure out how.
-Niki (Toronto, Canada)

Hi Niki

I am also a big fan of MM and return each year, usually twice each year! Surprisingly some do not seem fans of having the ranger with you so much of the time, but I am with you, and I really do like it. All the rangers do seem very easy to talk to and get along with. Also have been to ulusaba but a fair while ago now.
Start your new thread by entering your information in the top left tab "start a new topic". Like Tom, look forward to you sharing your adventure! Quite a group ranging from 2 to people in their 70's!

Kind regards

Kaye

"Good thing that I said IMO. That means "in my opinion".

If trackers add so much to the game drive experience why are so many of the the camps in the latest Conde Nast top 50 safari lodge list ones that don't have trackers?"

As I said...utter rubbish spouted by a travel agent trying to justify why MM no longer has trackers. You could have said it doesn't make much difference (and at M you may be right) but apparently it's better not having a spotter? You're joking right?

And Conde Nast really rate game viewing (and the ability to find it) at the top of their list? Don't make me laugh.

Conde Nast.
As I said in another recent thread here, Conde Nast lost all credibility with me when I used their recommendation for a safari camp in 2005, Khwai River Lodge. I think they do rate game viewing and give it the same, or less, scale weighting as the camp's wine list :) .

Spotters/trackers help, I've seen it many times. Especially when they take a portable radio and walk off through the bush. (Sometimes much to the worry of the guests). Seen them do this often and find the game objective. And they are also very helpful when the guide/driver is new to the area. Seen this often also. But at like MM where they have what, 7?, vehicles out with radios, the tracker is not so important. So, answer is IMHO - it depends :)

regards - tom
ps - is there difference between IMO and IMHO?

Tanky - Wow, good to hear from you again. Fortunately, I don't need to justify why MalaMala does not have trackers. That seems like something their marketing people need to do. I do need to explain to clients the differences between camps that do and do not have trackers. Going back a few comments, can you provide more details about your night drives with trackers at MalaMala?

Yip - I take Conde Nast with a grain of salt (as previously mentioned).

Tom - The version IMHO is a bit more emphatic than IMO I suppose.

Craig Beal - owner - Travel Beyond

Hi Craig

Up until MM stopped using trackers a few years ago, I have always had trackers on night drives though I have only being going there since September 2001. The only place where trackers are usually there and once, when our tracker was given a choice if he wanted to join us one evening after dinner, was a leopard specialist drive at Londo! And what a surprise, he choose not to go on a gamedrive!

I have had quiet gamedrives with trackers and without - on a really windy day for example, a lot of game is hard to find regardless of having a tracker. Having no tracker at MM has really made minimal difference to my gameviewing, which is still exceptional!

Kind regards

Kaye

KayeN,

From my understanding, the trackers at MalaMala could not be made to go after sunset as it was a violation of the union contract. Many of them chose to go out after dark especially if they had repeat guests or if they knew they would get a fat tip.

Hope this helps.

Off to Morocco... Ciao.

Craig Beal - owner - Travel Beyond

Hi Craig
Have never heard that and have never experienced that. Interesting who you heard that from as I think that it was incorrect info!

Enjoy Morocco!

Kind regards

Kaye

I have been reading these post with much interest, we are going on our first safari in a few weeks. Are you suppose to tip the trackers and drivers, guess I need to know some of these tips.

Some of you have seen my opinions about about Mala Mala in the past. I will not go into any details here about my reasons for not liking Mala which are many. I believe that Mala Mala may indeed have the best game viewing and they may have great rangers, however I will never set foot on their property as a paid guest. If anyone wants to know why, they contact me directly via Fodors. There are been long contentious posts about this subject here on Fodors and I do not want to drag down this thread.

Mike

rtys- Yes, tip the staff. This is my standard response:

Re tipping. I always pay cash (can't guarantee the right people will get it if paid by CC) in US or preferred in Rand. I overtip - I used to rely on tips. I do 20 (min) for guide, 10-15 tracker and same for housekeeping, pp/pn. We (DH and I) have been the only people in a vehicle by chance, so we give a little extra. I give all tips in a thank you note and give personally after our last game drive. Housekeeping I leave note in room before final game drive. When figuring the budget, I add 10-20% for tips. I also lose a bit in conversion, as I multiply USD by 7 or whatever is the closest number at the time, and round up to the nearest 20 Rand. If I can afford to be there, I can afford to overtip by a few dollars.

You're going to love it! Please tell us all about it when you return.

OK. My two cents. Sabi Sabi if you have to choose from these two. Honestly tho, do not do it. We were in that region this summer, and stayed at Rattay's on Mala Mala (http://www.safariguideafrica.com/rat...n-malamala.php)

It beats MalaMala main and sable hands down.

Hope I did not throw a spanner in the works.

MalaMala
Rattray's beats Main camp?
Hope it would since costs twice as much!!!!

regards - tom

Rattray's isn't twice the cost, though. It is 50% more expensive, which buys you:

no kids in camp under 16 years old
max 4 people per vehicle (versus 6)
amazing accommodations, including private plunge pool
elevated dining menu
more flexibility with dining times and other services

You're correct Andy, I did not check before posting, Main is $625 pppn, Rattray's is $925.

regards - tom