SA Alone or SA + Bots for 2nd Africa Trip?
 

Hello Fodorites - you all gave me such great advice and I learned so much in reading for my first trip to Africa - Tanzania in June 2010. Like so many others, I am now ready to plan trip #2. I want to go to both SA and Botswana, but am not sure if I should try for both in 1 trip, or just go to SA first or just stop briefly in SA and fly on to Bots and do that country alone. I've read many trip reports here and much advice to others. It sounds like from others comments that doing both SA + Bots might be too much for 1 trip. I would say we would like to spend between 14-18 days total in Africa. We do not have unlimited funds (who does?) but we are not looking for budget travel. Mid level would be ideal. I know Bots is one of the more expensive places to visit. Unlike Tanzania, where the biggest decision seemed to be choosing a tour operator, travel in the southern part of the continent sounds quite different. We do not want to drive ourselves around, so want everything including transport arranged ahead of time. It sounds like finding a good tour operator would still be the easiest way to insure this happens. Any recommendations?

What do people like for the best time of year to visit? Don't want rain or extreme heat. Our primary interest is animals, but seeing some of the other things in SA like Cape Town, and the wine country would be fun too.

Of the private concessions outside of Kruger, which do people like (love) that would be considered really nice, but not super luxurious (with a price tag to match) and in areas with great animal viewing opportunities.

Thanks in advance - I'm sure I'll have many more questions after people's comments!

It's reasonable to do SA and Bots in one trip. Airlines (SAA, Bots Air, others?) have scheduled routes from CPT and/or JNB into Bots. Plan on losing a day minimum on each end for travel and camp transfer. And plan that carefully so you don't get into a safari camp late and all you have left of the day is a $1,200 dinner and bed.

For private camps near Kruger, I will personally recommend Kings Camp in Timbavati; MalaMala, Leopard Hills, Kirkmans Kamp all in Sabi Sand. And there are many more good camps in those reserves. Here's a little map that lists camps and their location.
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/...ea07d9246g.jpg

Time of year - suggest August-September.

regards - tom

It is doable, but for two weeks, my personal choice would be to do one country. Less hopping around, a chance to stay longer at each camp.

If you want more of a pure wilderness experience, I'd go with Bots. Kruger adjacent camps are loaded with easily seen game but it's a bit more crowded (though that's not the right word) and a bit more theme-parkish (that's not the right word either, and I don't mean it in a bad way. The highly managed game stock just makes it easier to spot everything imaginable) In SA, we adored Londolozi for its leopards (and everything else). And the chance to enjoy Cape Town and the Winelands is a real plus. Bots is more expensive, but my favorite.

Weather-wise, late August to early Sept, as Tom says, is ideal. I don't mind later in Sept or Oct. either, but I don't mind the heat. It's always cool in the mornings, so you have to take jackets, caps, scarves and the like anyway.

You can certainly do CPT, Kruger (private reserves) and Botswana with 18/days, and even 14/days.

June-Sept is winter in southern hemisphere, so grasses are short and good for game sightings. The mornings/nights can be downright freezing, but will warm mid-day. Prices are also pretty good this time of year.

You can do both in 14 days, but Botswana is quite expensive and not an easy place for a self-drive. This is the trip we are planning for June. It's three weeks, but you can parts. Quite affordable.

http://www.fodors.com/community/afri...afari-2011.cfm

The best self drive option might be Sabi Sands/Kruger area - Pafuri - Mashatu. We did it last June, but with drivers between camps, in 10 days. It was perfect for us. Here is my trip report:

http://www.fodors.com/community/afri...ented-camp.cfm

It gives you Bots, but not the delta. I keep asking those in the know around here for suggestions for a mobile safari in Bots, but I don't get much help on operators. That's the only "affordable" way to do Bots.

June - Sept seems to be the best wildlife time, but it does get cold.

I should have mentioned that I definitely want to go to the Delta in Botswana.

Christabir - we do not want to self drive.

Thanks for comments so far... look forward to more.

We went June 2007 and thought the temps were great; sure its chilly in the am; as soon as the sun comes up, off comes the fleece and its so comfortable; and again evening - fleece back on, but there is usually a fire/fire-pit and we found it most enjoyable. Of course we like to travel in weather different than ours (southeast US) and we found the camps not so crowded and a couple we had private vehicles ,as we were the only guests.

OH, and should I mention the price difference????? Mid June is shoulder and prices were much more affordable. I'd go for Bots, and if you have the time and want, try out Sabi -Lion Sands, etc.mentioned are excellent. I think Tom (Cary999) has been to many and really likes Kings Camp-prob. better on pricing.
Good luck; let us know what you decide, I am in Africa withdrawal so living vicariously now.

If only I were planning....life would be perfect.
MoneyB

Sorry - I missed the "not". But I still highly recommend the SS-Pafuri-Mashatu trip. We used planes and drivers. three very different eco-systems. You can get a transfer from Mashatu to Gaborrone (sp?) and fly Maun/Delta camp from there.

To Bots or not to Bots is all about the cost. We spent 7 nights in the delta area in Sept 2006, and it was perfect. LOVED it! But the cost is prohibitive, both for accommodations and transfers. Our next time to Bots will be a mobile safari. But we love SA, too!

Thanks everyone. Christabir and Moneyburns.... even though you were in Bots Delta a few years ago now, what do you estimate the cost to be during June? Say for 7-10 days. Which camps did you stay at in Bots?

I am a total novice having made only one trip to southern africa (SA and Botswana(Delta). But I can tell you that the game viewing, and the climate, was superb in early October so I would not hesitate extending your possible time frame to early that month if need be. One of the camps I visited was Stanley's and we liked it very much, I do not believe it is in the top rank, price wise and it has been refurbished since I was there in 2007:

http://www.sanctuaryretreats.com/lod...nleys-camp.cfm

Thanks EK- good to know!

Here is a list of camps in Botswana. The "prices" are available - click view details. But no transfers (most have to be done by charter air) are included. I would budget at least $1000 pp/pn, and that's staying at the lower cost camps.

http://www.e-gnu.com/searchAccRegion.asp

Botswana is my favorite country we've visited. I went for the wildlife but the people are in my heart.

We went to Kings Pool, Vumbura Plains and Duba Plains. Duba was my favorite. The Wilderness Safaris classic camps are more my style than the fancy places.

Here are WS scheduled safaris. I haven't been able to find a lot of info on other comparable outfitters:

http://www.eyesonafrica.net/scheduled-safaris.htm

Have fun planning.

christabir, <i>I keep asking those in the know around here for suggestions for a mobile safari in Bots, but I don't get much help on operators.</i> Are you looking for mobile safari companies? A couple have been recommended more than once here on Fodors. Masson, Simon & Joyce Paul (Maun Rest Camp), Gametrails are the ones I remember without looking anything up. I've been on trips with the 2nd two and would use them again. I would book a trip with the 1st one from the recommendations I've seen here. I may be signing up for a trip next September and it's with Simon and Joyce. (They did the Botswana portion of trips that REI had for a year or two.) These are all non-participatory trips.

It's very easy to combine South Africa and Botswana in one 14-18 day trip, without self-driving, and you can throw in a couple of days at Victoria Falls too. Budget is the main factor, because "midrange" in Botswana is already priced at $800 per person per night! And top end around $1500 per person per night. A popular option is to combine Cape Town, Kruger/Sabi Sand, Victoria Falls and Chobe game reserve in Botswana. Chobe is less expensive than the Delta and offers the best boat-based game viewing in the world, from June to October. The Okavango Delta is also doable, but the less expensive lodges here cost $600 per person per night, plus the cost of flying there. The good news is that Kruger and Sabi Sand or Timbavati can be done for a lot less money, so you can save some there. There are various lodges priced below $500 per person per night, and a guided open vehicle safari using Sanparks accommodation is very affordable.
Unless you want to do a guided safari in the Kruger National Park, you won't need a ground operator for your trip like you do in Tanzania, but it is still useful to use a local tour operator to put it all together for you. A word about Mobile operators in Botswana: the majority of overland and mobile safari operators offer basic camping safaris (sometimes participation camping safaris, i.e. you get to help with some of the duties, and you sleep in basic dome tents). If a bit of comfort and luxury is important to you, perhaps better to consider a fly-in safari to a permanent lodge. Here is a starting point for an itinerary:
Fly to Cape Town, spend 3 or 4 nights here (all local tours and activities can be included).
fly to Johannesburg and join a guided open vehicle safari to Kruger for 2 or 3 nights.
Proceed to the Sabi Sand Game Reserve, perhaps Elephant Plains, Arathusa or Inyati Game Lodge for another 3 nights.
Back to Johannesburg (1 night) and then fly to Vic Falls (Zimbabwe side is the best). Spend 2 nights at Vic Falls.
Road transfer to Chobe Safari Lodge in Botswana for another 2 nights.
Then either back to Vic Falls to fly back to Johannesburg (end of trip) or if time allows, continue to Pom Pom camp in the Okavango Delta for 2-3 nights, and then fly to Maun at the end, Maun to Johannesburg, and then home. Total 16-18 nights. No self-drive required. Midrange budget.
The ideal time for a trip like this would be August-September.
Onne from Wild Wings Safaris

Can't help with S.A., but have visited Botswana on 4 occasions and love the sense of remoteness and tremendous game viewing. Went once on the high season when prices are exorbitant, and had no better experience than our preferred time which is June, before the high season prices kick in , and the air is clear and not hazy/dusty/smokey.

To give you some idea of costs our last trip was late May/ early June this year and was as follows.
1 night Motsentsela Tree Lodge in Maun (basically to rest up after a long and tiring overseas flight) followed by three nights at each of the following four camps;
Tau Pan
Savuti safari camp
Tubu Tree.
Chitabe

Cost for this trip, including return flights from Joburg and all internal transfers was $AU15,200 (for 2). On top of that we had our o'seas flights from Brisbane, travel insurance and 1 nights accommodation in Joburg on the way back,.

Botswana is expensive, and so you must clearly identify what it is you want to experience, and then do the essential research, starting with Brandt' guide to Botswana.

Happy planning

Thanks for the info Almac- yes I've rad the Brandt guide already.

Onne - thank you so much for the suggested itinerary. I will study it closely as I ponder this big trip.

Thanks sundowner. I will look into them for next time! (bookmarked).

Cateye555 - where are you from? I noticed nobody has recommend a tour operator. I know over one hundred different safari operations (expert travel agents, tour operators, or booking agents) in the USA so I can probably point you in the right direction if you are one of my fellow countrymen.

Here is a regurgitation of something I wrote on Trip Advisor:

To my knowledge there are eight safari lodges chains or marketing groups in Botswana and a handful of independently owned safari lodges (like Muchenje). There are hundreds or companies world-wide that package these lodges into private or group tours in hopes of making money on the difference between what you pay for the tour and what they pay the lodge.

Many of the tour operators/packagers/agents try to come up with fancy names for their trips but most go to the same places and many are exactly the same. If you look around the internet you will probably find 20+ tours of Botswana called “Wings Over XXXXX”.

The industry and price is in Botswana is geared toward private safaris whereas one couple (two people) pay less per person than a group of ten people. The groups have to take into account airfare, salary, and accommodations in the safari lodges for hosts or escorts. These hosts have no impact on the game viewing experience as they cannot usually guide at the lodges and most are in fact not qualified to guide.

The major safari lodge chains are:

1. Wilderness Safaris - http://www.wilderness-safaris.com/index.jsp (2011 high season starts June 16)
2. Desert & Delta - http://www.desertdelta.com/ (2011 high season starts July 1)
3. &Beyond - http://www.andbeyond.com/
4. Kwando - http://www.kwando.co.za/
5. Sanctuary Lodge - http://www.sanctuaryretreats.com/lodges/
6. Orient Express - orient-express-safaris.co.za/web/ogam/ogam_a…
7. Ker & Downey - http://www.kerdowneybotswana.com/
8. Footsteps in Africa - http://www.footsteps-in-africa.com/

#1, #2, & #4 do not work directly with clients so you must use an agent. Their preferred agents will have better pricing than their non-preferred especially with #4.

If you don’t use an agent for #5 and want to book “direct” you must use their retails outlet in Chicago called Abercrombie & Kent but I suggest getting comparative quotes from independent agents if you do this.

#3 is very consumer friendly for direct bookings but they pay agents a decent commission so it is almost always the same price to book direct or with an agent. If you work directly with them they will only offer their properties and the sales person will probably not be aware of options.

#6 is also consumer friendly but it is almost always cheaper to buy their camps on Luxury Link at auction prices 90 days prior to travel. luxurylink.com/luxury-hotels/…

#8 only works with agents. Usually South Africa or Maun based agents have the best prices for this chain.

Hope this helps.

Craig Beal – owner – Travel Beyond

Christabir - to add to Sundowner's list - we used John Chase on a previous trip to Bots. Excellent but quite pricey. I am tentatively planning a Bots green season mobile for 2012 and would suggest contacting Bill Given at thewildsource for ideas. He's just put together a reasonably priced 2011 Meru mobile in the Serengeti for me & from our conversation, it seems that his Bots prices are even better.
For all of us mobile lovers out here, should we start a new thread to keep all this info. in one place? Sandi, is there already a good mobile thread here? Thanks & all the best.

Tania from Africa Direct is fantastic, she knows all the lodges in both Bots and SA. http://www.africadirect.co.za/ and she will put together a very good itinerary for you.
www.kimssouthafrica.blogspot.com