divewop

Here's the dilemma. Going to Rwanda, (gorilla trekking) Kenya (to the Mara and to Chyulu hills), and TZ(to the Serengeti)

I shoot Nikon, have a D2X and D200.

Thought about renting the Nikon 70-200 /2.8 for the gorilla trekking but now that I'm going to the Serengeti, I'm thinking of renting either the 300/2.8 or the 200-400/4. The latter would probably require a monopod or tripod, which I really don't want to lug around unless it's that superior of a lens.

Anyway, which one would you guys think would give me more versatility.

Since I'm leaving on the 16th and want it here by the 14th, at the latest to play with it for a few days.

The D2X, my main camera body, has a 1.5 high speed crop which would help for close-ups and long distance but I'd still like to use a TC on my lens choice decision.

So what do you guys think?

Bill_H

I've been on safari with two guys who had the 200-400 and multiple D2x bodies (each had the 600 f/4 on the other body) and it was a wonderful lens because of the VR and zoom range, plus it was sharp even with converters. The 300 f/2.8 is also a great lens optically but limited on safari because of the fixed focal length. I would definitely pick the 200-400.

Bill

divewop

Bill, were they using it with a monopod or tripod?

I've got both but it's just so hard for a single traveler to pack all the extras.

Since I think I've got a vehicle to myself in the Serengeti, a monopod wouldn't be too cumbersome, it's just a matter of packing either/or.

cary999

you have two bodies so say again what your two lenses would/could be? That is, two long lenses should be enough, yes? And if you want to take a widish angle zoom, fine also, maybe best for the gorillas.

regards - tom
ps - I know what you mean about packing all of the extras !!!!

steeliejim

It's amazing how low a shutter speed you can hand hold With VR, even better with a bean bag.

No, VR will not stop moving objects like birds in flight, but you probably won't be shooting those from a tripod anyway.

I took a tripod along on my Oct. trip to Zambia (yes, I know, I still owe a trip report and pix), but only used it a couple of times for sunsets and candlelit dinners. I shoot Canon, and my 40d produced really clean images even when I upped the ISO, so I would think your Nikons will do fine as well.

There have been some posts re. innovative substitutes for bean bags, e.g. heavy ziplocks with non-skid pads, even socks stuffed with bean or rice.

I'd recommend a med. length zoom plus a long telephoto, and as long as they have VR, I think you will be happy with the results.

Jim

safarichuck

I have and take along a similar set of lenses (although Canon not Nikon). I just never get much or any use out of the monopod. I find that I can always find a good place to set a beanbag, vehicle fender, hood, or even a tree stump and get better stabilization. I'm leaving for Tanzania in a few weeks and hvae decided to laeave the monopod behind. The 300mm 2.8 should be great with or without a 1.4X telextender. Since I'm not doing a gorilla treck I'll leave my 70-200 2.8 behind but will take a 100-400mm because of it's so flexibile. The 300mm is the best lens I've ever used so I try to shoot with it as much as possible. It is really to long to hand hod for more than a couple of shots so I always look for a platform to throw a beanbag onto and stabilize the lens on it. If I were doing a grilla treck I would leave it behind and take along the 100-400mm and if possible the 70-200mm 2.8. I'm just not happy using a TC on any zoom lens, it seems as though I'm always giving up too much resolution and contrast. Everything is a tradeoff and any of the combinations you named will do just fine.
Regards-Chuck

divewop

This is what I usually take with me:

D2X and D200

80-400mm/4.5-5.6
35-105mm/3.5-4.5...a great little sleeper lens by Nikon that comes in handy for gorilla trekking.
17-35mm wide angle

Between the 80-400 and the 35-100, I usually have the gorilla trekking covered. And usually the 80-400 works fine in the Mara since you can drive off road and get pretty close for decent shots. And you can't use a TC on the 80-400. I wouldn't want to on that lens anyway.

I don't have the 70-200/2.8 yet which may be a purchase in the future. If I wasn't going to TZ, I would have rented the 70-200.

The new 400 is still on backorder from B&H and I don't think it will be in by the time I leave. Hence my wanting to rent either the 200-400/4 or 300/2.8

I do have bean bags and I think one will be provided for me in the Serengeti as well.

On the jeep I use in the Mara at Little Governor's, per my regular guide, I can balance the lens on the top of the truck, since his top is canvas and rolls back leaving the sides of the top and the middle section to use as stability.

The 200-400/4 only weighs a little more than the 300/2.8. And both have VR. The loss of a couple of stops with a TC on the 300 won't hurt much but I'm a little concerned on the 200-400 and using a TC.

This is a really tough call to make. That's why I'm hoping you guys can help make it a little easier but so far, it's still a tough choice.

Bill_H

<b>Bill, were they using it with a monopod or tripod?</b>

Both guys had a T-mount (Todd-pods) with Wimberley heads that sit snugly on the jeep roof for the 600 mm lenses and used bean bags for the 200-400's.

Most of us had tripods for use when out of the jeep but rarely used them, a couple of times at lunch to photograph birds and once on a hike after birds near Olmoti. You can skip bringing the monopod or tripod if you intend doing most of your shooting from the jeep, where a good bean bag should suffice for the 200-400 (I prefer the T-mount and Wimberley for the bigger, heavier lenses though, but this isn't in your plans).

The ability to zoom is very valuable while shooting from the jeep and I don't think the 200-400 is much if any bigger/heavier than the 300 f/2.8 (which is for sure a great lens also). I wish Canon offered something like the 200-400, the 100-400 IS isn't in the same class optically. I would certainly buy one to bring with my 500 f/4.

Bill

Bill_H

<b>I'm a little concerned on the 200-400 and using a TC. </b>

Obviously I have no first hand experience (Canon boy) but Todd G is a very talented pro and tells me the 200-400 - D2x - teleconverter combo has excellent optics ... here are some of his images from a single short trip, many taken with the 200-400 (he also uses the 600):

http://www.birdsasart.com/toddkenya/index.htm

Bill

cary999

Great photos (above link) by Gustafson. And may I point out that well over half have been cropped. Cropped to make a 400mm lens &quot;look like&quot; a 600mm lens? Certainly cropped for composition. Cropping is your friend.

regards - tom

PacoAhedo

Tom,i agree with you about cropping.Of course i like the perfect picture right out of the camera but cropping is been a practice way before digital.Now with the high res of the cameras is a great tool.(BTW, you did a good job with my picture of the cheetah and the tortoise but it looks strange flipp l\r ).


Divewop,i own a 200-400 vr and took it with my D200 on my Botswana safari last November.I used it most of the time with a monopod and ball head but after been in east africa a few times i would not take the monopod,just beanbags would be perfect.

The combo D2x and 200-400 is almost perfect for safari,taking the 2x factor hsc you get a 300-800 f\4 lens!!!

Have never been to the gorillas but from what i have learn ,the 200-400 would not be the best option.I handheld this lens sometimes but always at very high speeds and i don't think you will get those conditions of great light with the gorillas?

The D2X with the 200-400 and the D200 with the 70-200 would be the perfect option.... but those are the 2 lens you donīt have?


You can take a look ,The last 3 galleries are from our November trip, 95% of the pictures are with the 200-400.

Paco.

http://www.pbase.com/africawild

cary999

Paco - I probably agree with you that the cheetah photo looks better NOT flipped l/r. But I left it like that just for fun. How about the cloning out of the stick across the face and the sticks around the top of the head? Do you think that is ok to do to a nature photo? (I do).

About cropping. I'm trying to un-learn what I had to learn when shooting 35mm slide film. With slides/transparancies/chromes
what you shot was what you got. No cropping afterwards in prints, no displaying on PCs or the internet or TVs. Today with digital I think it is better to not compose tightly &quot;in camera&quot; but to crop the digital photo later for best composition. But hard to break that old habit for me.

Back on topic, I don't have any of the lenses being discussed. I do have the Nikon 70-300VR and it served me well on my last safari. I used it on the D200 and the 18-200 lens on the D40x. Worked out great. No lens swapping required, grab one and shoot. (I used the 70-300 90% of the time).

regards - tom

safaridude

If it were me, I would take the 300/2.8. With digital cropping capabilities, it is my opinion that no matter what focal length you have in any situation there is always a shot. I have a Canon system, but I do know that the 300/2.8 lenses are similar. They can easily be hand held. A 1.4x converter (if Nikon makes them) can come in handy with the lens too.

safarichuck

I shoot a 300mm 2.8 IS L Canon lens sometimes with a 1.4X or 2X Teleconverter on a Canon 1.6 crop body. This combination gives great results with a 1.4X TC and acceptable results with a 2X TC. It is the only lens I have ever owned (50 years of photography) that will take a 2X TC and still yield results I would call aceptable. I understand their are a couple of other primes that will give similar results but I have nevr owned one. As far a being easily handheld, I think I would qualify that with a caveat that the shutter speed be kept to the reciprocal of the lens focal length X the TC (1.4 or 2X) X the crop factor. In other words, for a 300mm lens on a 1.5X crop body with a 1.4X TC, keep your shutter speed over 1/630 second. Even at that I cannot hold it steady enough for more than 5 minutes. Beleive me that's a long time in an open vehicle such as are commonly used in Bots. Keep in mind that people who specailize in birds in flight photography (BIF) seldom have to hole their cameras at the ready for the same long period as I seem to encounter on safari. I've had leopards stare at me for an hour or more before they do anything interesting. Just my thought of course their are always expections to photographic rules, each situation is different.
Regards-Chuck

cary999

so divewop, back to you - if you take a 300/2.8, what would be your other lens(es)?

regards - tom

divewop

Thanks so much for all the input and opinions on the lens.

I've got one more day to decide, then I need to order it by Monday to get it here by next Friday. (I always pack my camera gear first!) You know, priorities!!

Tom-looks like the 300mm 2.8 is nowhere to be found. The lens rental place I was looking at doesn't have them in yet, they were supposed to be in yesterday but haven't arrived. The other store has it rented out until January 17, the day AFTER I leave, which totally sucks.

And the new 400 is STILL backordered from B&amp;H.

Looks like me only option now is the 200-400.

I'd put the bigger lens on my D2X and the smaller lens (80-400) on the D200.

I'd also take my 35-105 f/3.5-4.5 for gorilla trekking along with the 80-400 and take my 17-35 f/2.8 for landscape and fun stuff.

If everything comes together it would be...

200-400 f/4 or 300 f/2.8
80-400
35-105
17-35
1.4, 1.7 and 2.0 TCs

PacoAhedo

This is the way i see it:


I always try to take the longest telephoto i can.


This is not only because i like not to crop or crop as less as possible.Longer reach also means more space for the animals.
Some animals are shy and they need space to do their things.In order to get an interesting picture i like a good light with an interesting subject that is doing something interesting.
The more space you give to the animals the more comfortable they feel and the more natural they will behave.


You also mention the Serengeti.With no off road driving you will find yourself in situations that even a 500 will not be long in off.

I have been 4 years shutting with a sigma 50-500 and finally last year a upgrade to the much better 200-400.There is only 2 things i missed on my last safari,the amazing zoom range of the sigma and the 500mm.


Talking about zoom range ,this is another big plus a find over the 300 2.8.I find zoom versatility very helpful for safari situations.Once you stop the vehicle animals moves,some times approaching to you,sometimes another animals enter in the scene...

I prefer giving up a some picture quality of the prime lens? but having the versatility of the zoom and not having to move the vehicle and maybe missing the shot.

Also the zoom gives you more alternatives at the time you decided where to place the subject or try different compositions from portraits to close up shots.

I think you have a fantastic set of cameras and lens no matter if you take the 300 or the zoom and the quality of the pictures is almost guarantied,but it is you and your photographic eye that will make a difference between good pictures or eye catching photos.

Tom, i dontīlike to remove things from a nature photo and i dont do it myself but dont mind if others do It ,i am not a purist and like to crop and adjust levels,contrast or saturation but dont go farther.


Paco.

Here is a nice comparative between the 300 2.8 and the 200-400

http://www.hickingbotham.com/reviews/nikon300200400.htm

divewop

Paco-
No doubt that the 200-400 is an exceptional lens, but the article is comparing it the the older 300mm without vibration reduction. The new VR series lenses including the 300, 400, 500 and 600 are supposed to be superb as well with the VR technology on all the lens.


From B&amp;H photo...

&quot;The super-quiet Nikon 300mm f/2.8 G-AFS ED-IF VR telephoto lens features Nikon's Silent Wave Motor technology that combines fast and precise autofocusing operation with super-quiet operation. The Vibration Reduction (VR) technology helps compensate for camera shake to help ensure sharper pictures in low light and at shutter speeds up to three stops slower.

This lens also features improved optical designs, using Nikon's performance-proven Extra-low Dispersion (ED) glass, Nano-Crystal anti-reflective coating, Meniscus front element, Internal Focus, and focus preset functions. Distance Signal technology provides focused-distance information.&quot;

Anyway, I'm sure I'll be fine with either choice but in the Serengeti always wishing for a 500 or 600 instead.

Too bad there's not a little lens rental shop located there with all the goodies, and always completely stocked so you don't have to lug the heavy ole' big boys across the world.

divewop

I had a very nice conversation with the owner of lensrental.com last night. Yes, on a Sunday night!

The new 300 f/2.8 VR is on the way along with the 3 TCs. The only TC they had in stock was the 1.4, but they ordered the other two TCs from B&amp;H photo and are having them drop-shipped to me before I leave. Very accommodating folks and very easy to work with.

We discussed the pros and cons of both the 300 and the 200-400 and agreed that with the use of the TCs, the 300 would be the way to go for this trip and for my needs.

For you Nikon shooters, lensrental.com is getting ready to upgrade their Nikon stock by about $50,000 worth of merchandise. About time Nikon got the attention from a lens rental dealer. And no, I have no affiliation with them, they were just great to work with.

For anyone interested, the owner just bought the new Nikon D3 and absolutely loves it. Says it's one of the best cameras he's ever used.
I want to get my hands on one but it will have to wait until my return. I'm maxed out $$ wise for this trip!

So, here's what I'm taking.

The D2x and D200
The 300 f/2.8 VR
The 80-400 f/4.5-5.6 VR
The 35-105 f/3.5-4.5
The 17-35 f/2.8
1.4, 1.7, 2.0 TCs for the 300mm
The SB 800 flash

The epson p2000
Hyperdrive space 120 gb,
The new Hyperdrive Colorspace 160 gb
32 gb of Sandisk Extreme 3 cards

I'm still tossing around whether or not to take my tripod or monopod. I've got a lot of gear already and it's so hard when one person is carrying all this stuff. Not to mention, the backpack and everything I've got to take to Rwanda. Whew!

divewop

Oops, the site is lensrentals.com
(plural)