in Dordgone, stayed 3 nights in Sarlat, a good base to visit some of the caves, went to Lascaux II ( a good replica near the now closed original) Font de Gaume, have to arrive early to get tickets, and Rouffigniac, takea train inside the cave to the paintings. Can read info on their websites and at Rick Steeves forum. More may soon be closed to public; others are further south and in Spain.
BACK TO AFRICA; earliest dates for fall for me are the Aug. 30, or later would be Sept. 27; I need to leave late month and get back mid month for work.... Trip home may take an overnight in Amsterdam if I'm reading KLM right...
February would work, but then again very crowded and also so many unknowns with wild animals.

by the way, it's a challenge to get to the Dordogne region, it's recommended to rent a car, which we did.... but others manage with trains and hiring a guide to drive them to the caves once there....

Thanks for the cave info. Might be closing so the images can be preserved is probably right. Good warning to heed. Merci beacoup!

I just checked one KLM and one Delta flight. Each had NO o/nt in Amsterdam. Change planes but no o/nt.

For dates:
So Aug 30 is ok, but not Aug 27, is that correct? What about Sept 27, can Bill do a trip for you that works for your end of Sept days? Though I've been thrilled with George since that's who I've used, I'd be very comfortable with any Wild Source guide.

Check out these migration blog entries for various months, including Oct, for the past couple of years. Note the date of the blog, which is often late in Oct.

http://www.nomad-tanzania.com/blogs/...rchive/2013/11

and this one
http://blogs.andbeyond.com/carla_gla...est-migration/


From the Kenyan side

http://www.governorscamp.com/blog/ma...september-2013

African Odyssey also has a migration update but I didn't want to download the extra required software to see it right now so I couldn't get it.

"I just checked one KLM and one Delta flight. Each had NO o/nt in Amsterdam. Change planes but no o/nt."

To clarify that was using LAX, since you mentioned that's your base.

Last year I went to Tanzania with three friends from CA, 1 via LAX and 2 via SFO, both easily made the connection coming and going with no overnight.

Thanks for info on flight... will check better... yes Aug. 30 or Sept. 27, though the Aug. 30 he may not get 3 nights at the Lamala Mara Camp and deal, bill is checking into the schedule for me.

Here's an itinerary from Base Camp; cheaper, but fewer days, and they can add on the flight from Kogetende cost $283 pp What do you think?

BASECAMP

DAY 0

Arrive at Kilimanjaro International Airport - Collection via Base Camp and transfer to www.ilborusafarilodge.com situated at the foot of Mt. Meru.• The perfect place to spend your first night in Tanzania D

DAY 1

Arusha NP http://www.basecamptanzania.com/NP_Arusha.htm days mixed hiking (circa 2 hours) and game drives, in this special little park at the foot of Mt Meru – chance to see Mt Kilimanjaro – overnight www.ilborusafarilodge.com BLD

DAY 2

Leaving Arusha we drive circa 120 km on tarmac and circa 4 km on piste arriving at our first park - Tarangire National Park We take you on your first Game Drive arriving back just before dusk to • overnight in luxury tents, self contained/shower etc., situated on the slopes overlooking the Tarangire river, a permanent water source, enabling you to enjoy the sight of the wildlife coming to drink. Overnight www.tarangiresafarilodge.com OR www.sopalodges.com BLD

DAY 3

Rising early we game drive until lunch, after which we continue our safari to Lake Manyara National Park. We shall take a short Game Drive in this spectacular park at the base of the western wall of the Great Rift Valley before retiring to our hotel on the rim of the Rift Valley.• Overnight www.kirurumu.net OR http://www.moivaro.com/pages/migunga...camp/lodge.htm BLD

DAY 4

We drive to and enter the world famous Serengeti National Park.• Game Driving from the entrance gate to your hotel in this the probably most famous of all National Parks in the world!• Overnight in tented camp http://www.wildfrontiers.com/mailima...tSheet2011.pdf BLD

DAY 5

A full day, dawn to dusk Game Driving in the Serengeti National Park Overnight in tented camp next too the Mara river http://www.wildfrontiers.com/?q=con,...ly-in%20Safari BLD

DAY 6

A full day, dawn to dusk Game Driving in the Serengeti National Park Overnight in tented camp next too the Mara river http://www.wildfrontiers.com/?q=con,...ly-in%20Safari BLD

DAY 7

A full day, dawn to dusk Game Driving in the Serengeti National Park.• Today we have over 14,000 km in which explore the ever changing flora and fauna, in this park made famous in the Film "Serengeti shall not die" by Dr. Bernhard Grzimek. • You too shall never forget the splendour of the rolling savannah and open plains, home to the most spectacular migration on our planet! • Overnight in tented camp http://www.wildfrontiers.com/mailima...tSheet2011.pdf BLD

DAY 8

. Our last game drive in Serengeti National Park taking in some of the "Kopjes / Inselbergen" granite outcrops in which many predators love to sit and look out over the plains for their prey.• Lunch is a packed lunch. En-Route to Ngorongoro Crater:.• Overnight in www.sopalodges.com BLD

DAY 9 Ngorongoro Crater - a World Heritage Site - where we spend the maximum of six hours allowed game driving! • Down inside the Worlds Largest Perfect Caldera (collapsed volcano) with a permanent residence of circa 30,000 animals.• Ngorongoro Crater is a breathtakingly exciting place to see the only remaining Black Rhinos in East Africa.• En-Route to Arusha Cultural village tour http://mtoculturalprogramme.tripod.com/ Overnight www.ilborusafarilodge.com BLD

DAY 10 Departure transfer B

TOTAL PP BASED ON TWO PARTICIPANTS 2014 PRICES.

MIXED LODGES SAFARI $3,25O PP

TOTAL PP BASED ON FOUR PARTICIPANTS 2014 PRICES.

MIXED LODGES SAFARI $2,75O

TOTAL PP BASED ON SIX PARTICIPANTS 2014 PRICES.

MIXED LODGES SAFARI $2,65O

TOTAL PP BASED ON EIGHT PARTICIPANTS 2014 PRICES.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>

OPTION OF MASSAI VILLAGE (BOMA) VISIT $50 PER VEHICLE PAID DIRECT.

OPTION OF BALLOON SAFARI $499 PP www.balloonsafaris.com

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>

ALL INCLUSIVE OF AIRPORT TRANSFERS -ARRIVEL & DEPARTURE / ALL PARK FEES / RANGER FEES / 4X4 TRANSPORT / ENGLISH SPEAKING

DRIVER-GUIDE/ BOTTLED WATER ON SAFARI/ FULL BOARD = BREAKFAST+LUNCH+DINNER / HOTEL ACCOMDATION DAYS AS SHOWN

ABOVE. / FLYING DOCTORS SERVICE

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

NOT INCLUDED ALL THINGS OF A PERSONAL NATURE IE: ALCOHOL / TIPS-GRATUITIES/LAUNDRY,SOUVENIRS / AIRPORT TAX'ES.

<b>Here's an itinerary from Base Camp; cheaper, but fewer days, and they can add on the flight from Kogetende cost $283 pp What do you think?</b> <red>I would get this itinerary reworked as shown below with the flight. I would utilize all of your 14 days and do

1-2 Leave home, get to JRO
3 Arusha
4-5-6 Tarangire - Choose Tarangire Safari Lodge
7 Go to crater, stopping along way at markets, etc. Get to crater in time to enjoy the view at Sopa
8 Morning drive in crater, go to Central Serengeti
9 Central Serengeti
10 N. Serengeti
11 N. Serengeti
12 N. Serengeti
13 Back to JRO on the flight from Kogetende
14 Get home

I see pricing is based on 2. I was under the impression you were going solo. Are there 2 people? Perhaps more than 2?

The above would differ from The Wild Source in parks visited by adding Arusha and removing 1 night Central Serengeti. Pros: A very good chance to see the beautiful black and white colobus monkey in Arusha. A chance to hike in the park, where you may also see the colobus or who knows what. Cons: You miss a day in the far more diverse and far larger Central Serengeti. There are many different directions you can go in Central Serengeti from Moru Kopjes (where lions like to sit) to the Retima Hippo Pool, to staying along the river, etc. etc. More days in central increases your options and puts you in an area with a higher density of cats, eles, herds than Arusha Nat Park can offer.

Of course Bill of The Wild Source (or any of the companies you list) could do the above itinerary with Arusha National Park.

</red>



BASECAMP

1 you leave from home and 2 you get to JRODAY 0

Arrive at Kilimanjaro International Airport - Collection via Base Camp and transfer to www.ilborusafarilodge.com situated at the foot of Mt. Meru.• The perfect place to spend your first night in Tanzania D

3DAY 1

Arusha NP http://www.basecamptanzania.com/NP_Arusha.htm days mixed hiking (circa 2 hours) and game drives, in this special little park at the foot of Mt Meru – chance to see Mt Kilimanjaro – overnight www.ilborusafarilodge.com BLD
<red>Don’t know the lodge. But nice to hike and drive in Arusha Nat Park</red>

4DAY 2

Leaving Arusha we drive circa 120 km on tarmac and circa 4 km on piste arriving at our first park - Tarangire National Park We take you on your first Game Drive arriving back just before dusk to • overnight in luxury tents, self contained/shower etc., situated on the slopes overlooking the Tarangire river, a permanent water source, enabling you to enjoy the sight of the wildlife coming to drink. Overnight www.tarangiresafarilodge.com OR www.sopalodges.com BLD
<red>Recommend Tarangire Safari Lodge for the view. In fact the description provided is that of Tarangire Safari Lodge, not of Sopa Lodge.</red>

5DAY 3

Rising early we game drive until lunch, after which we continue our safari to Lake Manyara National Park. We shall take a short Game Drive in this spectacular park at the base of the western wall of the Great Rift Valley before retiring to our hotel on the rim of the Rift Valley.• Overnight www.kirurumu.net OR http://www.moivaro.com/pages/migunga...camp/lodge.htm BLD

<red>Once again only 1 night Tarangire. With a choice of 2 nt sTarangire or (1 nt Tarangire + 1 nt Manyara) I’d take 2 nts Tarangire. But the problem is if you need to be in Central Serengeti on Day 4, it is too far to go from Tarangire to Central. That’s why the day in the middle at Manyara. </red>

6DAY 4

We drive to and enter the world famous Serengeti National Park.• Game Driving from the entrance gate to your hotel in this the probably most famous of all National Parks in the world!• Overnight in tented camp http://www.wildfrontiers.com/mailima...tSheet2011.pdf BLD
<red>Note you have 3 one-nighters in a row. Not ideal. </red>

7DAY 5

A full day, dawn to dusk Game Driving in the Serengeti National Park Overnight in tented camp next too the Mara river http://www.wildfrontiers.com/?q=con,...ly-in%20Safari BLD

8DAY 6

A full day, dawn to dusk Game Driving in the Serengeti National Park Overnight in tented camp next too the Mara river http://www.wildfrontiers.com/?q=con,...ly-in%20Safari BLD

9DAY 7

A full day, dawn to dusk Game Driving in the Serengeti National Park.• Today we have over 14,000 km in which explore the ever changing flora and fauna, in this park made famous in the Film "Serengeti shall not die" by Dr. Bernhard Grzimek. • You too shall never forget the splendour of the rolling savannah and open plains, home to the most spectacular migration on our planet! • Overnight in tented camp http://www.wildfrontiers.com/mailima...tSheet2011.pdf BLD

<red>DAYS 5-6-7 are great </red>

10DAY 8

. Our last game drive in Serengeti National Park taking in some of the "Kopjes / Inselbergen" granite outcrops in which many predators love to sit and look out over the plains for their prey.• Lunch is a packed lunch. En-Route to Ngorongoro Crater:.• Overnight in www.sopalodges.com BLD
<red>great</red>

11DAY 9 Ngorongoro Crater - a World Heritage Site - where we spend the maximum of six hours allowed game driving! • Down inside the Worlds Largest Perfect Caldera (collapsed volcano) with a permanent residence of circa 30,000 animals.• Ngorongoro Crater is a breathtakingly exciting place to see the only remaining Black Rhinos in East Africa.• En-Route to Arusha Cultural village tour http://mtoculturalprogramme.tripod.com/ Overnight www.ilborusafarilodge.com BLD

12DAY 10 Departure transfer B
<red>What do you do all day long prior to your evening flight? If you had the Arusha National Park day here at the end, you could add one more night to Tarangire, for a total of 2 nights Tarangire. That would make this better.

Don't care much for this all drive itinerary. The one I listed above with flights, 3 nights Tarangire, 2 nights Central would be good, though. Now for the costs on that.
</red>

I see "my husband and I are planning a trip" so ok, that's two of you. Missed that earlier.

Then there's this from Go2Africa

If you are looking to see the migration herds during your trip in October then the Masai Mara is the best place to do this as the herds would have crossed the rivers from Tanzania during July / August and are grazing in the plains of the Mara waiting for the short rains which start around November. These rains will prompt their movement and the herds will start making their way down to the Serengeti.


Whilst in Kenya it is also recommended to visit the beautiful Amboseli Reserve where you will have iconic views of Mount Kilimanjaro as well as a visit to Lake Nakuru. If you are looking to travel for around 2 weeks you can combine Kenya with a visit to Tanzania, which is definitely worth including with the game rich Serengeti and iconic Ngorongoro Crater amongst the most visited sights in East Africa.


This one starts at $7000:
The Migration, Lake and Crater adventure is a wonderful luxury fly in safari that offers the best of the African bush with some of Africa’s best hosts. Accommodation is in small intimate camps located in prime safari areas allowing you to enjoy the wildlife, sunsets and exquisite cuisine.

This is in $4500 range with 7 people
You can also opt to do this safari on a private basis if you preferred not to travel with others.

13 daysStart: NairobiEnd: NairobiDestinations:
Tanzania
Ngorongoro Crater,
Serengeti,
Lake Manyara
Kenya
Lake Nakuru,
Amboseli National Park,
Masai Mara
Accommodation:
1 night at Safari Park Hotel
2 nights at Mara Simba Lodge
1 night at Lake Nakuru Lodge
1 night at Lake Manyara Serena Safari Lodge
2 nights at Serengeti Serena Safari Lodge
2 nights at Ngorongoro Serena Safari Lodge
1 night at Tarangire Sopa Lodge
2 nights at Ol Tukai Lodge Comfort Level: Mid-rangeType of Tour: Guided & Scheduled

Quick question, or not so quick...

How does this work exactly... don't we go out looking for animals, and move around, in which case, wouldn't the tents be in different places every night?
Or is that the camping version?

Thanks

The one I listed above with flights, 3 nights Tarangire, 2 nights Central would be good, though. Now for the costs on that. which one is this?

<darkgreen>Good question.

In all of these itineraries you are not nomads following herds or predators with no designated accommodations. You go to the lodges or camps listed in the itinerary each night and the lodges and camps stay put for weeks at the minimum or years at the max.

But your question raises an important point. You will be looking for animals within the parks only. When you go from park to park (with the exception of traveling within the Ngorongoro Conservation Area and the Serengeti) you are on a regular highway. You won't see animals.

So you want to maximize your game drives within the parks and not spend a lot of time going between the parks.

Even if you are on a camping safari in pup tents, you look for animals in the parks and put your tent up in the designated camping area at night that has been reserved in advance (can't just pitch it anywhere you want). If you spend several days at one campground, then you return there each night to your tent. When it's on to the next park, pack up the tent and go. Some large parks have more than one public camp area and you can go between those.

Moving to a different place every day for several days in a row is a big pain and you can't get a feel for the place and you can't follow up on interesting animal activity. For example, you find a lion pride. It's nice to locate the pride the next day and see if they are on a kill or maybe hunting. Or there is a hyena den. It's nice to check for pups at the den at both dusk and dawn.

---------------
</darkgreen>

Go2Africa quote:
"If you are looking to see the migration herds during your trip in October then the Masai Mara is the best place to do this as the herds would have crossed the rivers from Tanzania during July / August and are grazing in the plains of the Mara waiting for the short rains which start around November. These rains will prompt their movement and the herds will start making their way down to the Serengeti."

<red>That’s true. Your desire to avoid crowds moved N. Serengeti to the fore, which also is a good place in Oct. </red>

13 days<red>Do you have 13 days? If you have 2 weeks total, then you do not have 13 days on safari. </red>

Start: NairobiEnd: NairobiDestinations:
Tanzania
Ngorongoro Crater,
Serengeti,
Lake Manyara
Kenya
Lake Nakuru,
Amboseli National Park,
Masai Mara
Accommodation:

1 night at Safari Park Hotel

2 nights at Mara Simba Lodge <red>OK, generally an option for people who are trying to save money. Location is just ok. Not very near the Mara River. But look at this. They just said above that the Mara is the best place for the migration in Oct, but you only get 2 nights. And, you're in the wrong place for the migration in the Serengeti. </red>

1 night at Lake Nakuru Lodge <red>Flamingos and rhino. 1 night here is typical</red>

<red>From Kenya to Tarangire.</red>
1 night at Lake Manyara Serena Safari Lodge

2 nights at Serengeti Serena Safari Lodge <red>You never get to northern Serengeti where the herds are. For Central Serengeti, this is good. </red>

2 nights at Ngorongoro Serena Safari Lodge <red>Fine, I think
Sopa is better at the crater, but Serena is a fancier property, so fine. </red>

1 night at Tarangire Sopa Lodge
<red>1 night is too little, Sopa not first choice </red>

<red>Now you are back in Kenya. This drive from Tarangire to Amboseli where Ol Tukai is located is like 7 hours. The trips that do this are usually the cram and jam types. This is not a classy itinerary; it is a shotgun, been there, check it off itinerary. </red>
2 nights at Ol Tukai Lodge <red>nice choice of lodging, though</red>Comfort Level: Mid-range


<red>If you really want Tanz and Kenya, then focus on N. Serengeti and the Mara in each of the respective countries. Throw in the crater too. If anything else fits, fine. That is a good use of two weeks time. Not all this shuttling about.

Is your husband in on all of this or are you sparing him until you have a very limited number of concrete options and can see "We're doing this or this, dear"?</red>

In any case, best to stay with Wild Source so far, right? pending dates

This is the itinerary I was referring to. Basecamp would have to cost it for you. Basecamp offered a flight from Kogatende. Along with that flight they would have to make some changes from their all driving trip. I think this itinerary would be good. You can see it is almost like The Wild Source. The only difference is The Wild Source has 3 nights Central Serengeti and 0 nights Arusha.

Pros of adding Arusha, subtracting Central Serengeti: A very good chance to see the beautiful black and white colobus monkey in Arusha. A chance to hike in the park, where you may also see the colobus or who knows what. Cons: You miss a day in the far more diverse and far larger Central Serengeti. There are many different directions you can go in Central Serengeti from Moru Kopjes (where lions like to sit) to the Retima Hippo Pool, to staying along the river, etc. etc. More days in central increases your options and puts you in an area with a higher density of cats, eles, herds than Arusha Nat Park can offer.

Of course Bill of The Wild Source (or any of the companies you list) could do the below itinerary with Arusha National Park.




1-2 Leave home, get to JRO

3 Arusha

4-5-6 Tarangire - Choose Tarangire Safari Lodge

7 Go to crater, stopping along way at markets, etc. Get to crater in time to enjoy the view at Sopa

8 Morning drive in crater, go to Central Serengeti

9 Central Serengeti

10 N. Serengeti
11 N. Serengeti
12 N. Serengeti

13 Back to JRO on the flight from Kogetende
14 Get home

So still with the Wild Source pending new itiniaries... Husband us more of an in the moment kind of person... lucky him ... though he did say the other day the comment about tents following us with a cook, which made me think and wish he'd said that earlier... so now I understand how/why best to stay in parks and not travel around too much, and I guess staying in Tanzania this trip makes most sense...

Best to stay with Wild Source? I chose them believing it would be best. So I would say yes. I'm very pleased with my decision and will go with them again.

I'll stick in my recent trip report with them. It was for Feb, not when you are going, but you can scroll through and see how George helped me see amazing things, and I spent fewer days on safari than you are planning.

http://safaritalk.net/topic/12456-th...zania-mid-feb/

I have done a trip with a cook along (plus the driver/guide) but we stayed in Kenya Wildlife Safari (KWS) properties, some tented some lodging. Very simple but really nice and quite secluded, plus very inexpensive facilities.

Such a trip is a possibility. No KWS properties in the Mara though.

Husband can be spur of the moment because you're doing all the research and planning! ;)

Fantastic photos!! I would love to see some of this, except for the killing part... I'll have to brace myself for life in the wild!!!

On a private trip, you can almost always avoid "the killing part." In fact it usually takes a lot of waiting to see something like that and most trips do not see a kill. Coming upon animals that are eating something they have killed previously is far more common. But again, on your own trip you can stay and look or go elsewhere.

Just a technicality, but in one itinerary above:
>>Ngorongoro Crater is a breathtakingly exciting place to see the only remaining Black Rhinos in East Africa.•<<

I just saw a bunch of black rhino in Ol Pejeta in Kenya.

atravelynn's last comment is bang on. I've seen two failed hunts (the cheetah didn't get their prey) but I've come upon at least a dozen meals in progress. That can get gory. If you don't want to see it, just tell your guide to move on.