Need Help Planning South Africa Trip: First timer to Africa
 

Hi all! I'm an active poster on the Europe site and now our attention is turned to South Africa for April/May 2008

I need some help!

We have a budget of $20,000 not including international air, meals, gratuities etc.

While I plan all the Europe trips myself, I do not want to plan this one by myself and wish to work with an agent or outfitter. Prefer not to be on a group tour but rather something customized for me and my husband.

We would like to do the following:

Cape Town and stay at Cape Grace or Mount Nelson. Do winelands tour.

Botswana: Mombo camp preferred

See Victoria Falls and stay at Victoria Falls Hotel in Zim

Finish with Signita Ebony or Boulder

We are into fabulous food, wine, great guides and wonderful accommodations. As you can see we are more of the luxury type.

Here is my dilemma: I just got off the phone with Phoebe Weinberg a Conde Nast specialist for Africa ( I've dealt with lots of Conde Nast agents and have had excellent results; one is even a good friend now, I work well with agents as I speak up what I want).

For what we wished to do $20,000 would not EVEN cover! Our idea was 7 nights Cape Town, 6 in Botswana, 2 in Zim, and 3 at Singita. I trust this is so, but wanted to check here as well. A night at Singita she said for 2008 will most likely go up from 7500 R to 8000R pp per night. Obviously this eats into the budget! But for as long as I could remember I have wanted to stay at Singita.

I quickly just looked through some of your posts today and ran across this program with this outfitter that one of you had used. Anyone else have an opinion here? It does not include Botswana, but has all the other elements. It seems rushed, but I don't know... perhaps this is not like Europe where you like to linger and linger..... ( you all know much better than I at this point!) Here is the link:

http://www.africa-adventure.com/prog...hafrica08.html

While of course we are going to Africa to experience a wonderful safari and unique time, we are really urbanites and we don't need tons of wilderness. And accomodations are really, really important to us, so to downgrade our accommodations just to fit the budget would be not exactly the route I'd like to take. Rather, I would shorten the time or eliminate a destination.

In any event, you all know much more than I do at this point and perhaps you can direct me to another outfit that indeed can make $20,000 really work well.

Thanks a mil....

ttt

The rate for Mombo in April/May 2007, at least according to e-gnu.com, is $1,280 per person, or $2,560 per couple, so for six nights in April/May 2008 it will be at least $15,360 (before factoring in the 2008 rate increase). So, from your $20,000 budget, you will $4,640 to spend on seven nights in Cape Town, two in Zimbabwe and three in Singita (which, depending on the exchange rate, is probably also $2,000 per night per couple).

You are trying to stretch $20,000 too far for so many nights at the most expensive camps.

Personally, I would take a few days off of Mombo (maybe stay three days Mombo, and three days at a five-paw camp), and stay at a different camp in the Sabi Sands (the Sabi Sands is so small and the animals have no idea where you are staying -- many other lodges are reported to be as nice as Singita, without the Conde Nast buzz).

Good luck.

If I recall correctly, April/May is the green (low) season, with the possibility of rain at some of these destinations (Botswana)... someone out there correct me.

If you wish Mombo, you certainly have to plan early as this one books up quickly as do the Singita properties.

But the first thing that jumps out to me is, too many days at some stops. Seven (7) days in CPT is alot... most spend minimum 3 or 4 full-days where you can cover quite a number of the sights. Also, 6/days in Botswana at one camp, even Mombo might be overkill. You may want to split the time between a water camp and land camp (those more familiar, should jump in here with recommendations).

If you shorten your time in CPT, you have more time at Singita, even though expensive, most of the lux properties at Sabi Sands are in the same price range. And, another lux property, offering a different environment, would be Phina.

I would suggest you contact:
Julian or Sharon at Timeless Africa @ www.timelessafrica.com

or Rocco at Destiny Africa @ www.destinyafrica.com

Generally, for a lux safari you have to figure $600-$1000/person/nt with CPT and VFA being at the lower end, Mombo and Singita (about $1200/nt/person) at the higher end. While on safari, all your meals will be included; elsewhere, is usually only breakfast.

I believe Phoebe Weinberg will be higher than some other tour operators, including those listed above. If looking for other resources, do a search on this board for "South African tour operators" (w/o the quotes)... some will be in-country, SA outfitters, other located in the States or the UK.

Keep us posted on your progress.

I checked out the itinerary you posted and it would be a good place to start and since you want a private trip, it could be altered to suit your wants. The company is reliable and I've used them.

While 7 nights in Cape Town is longer than many people stay (though I'm staying 8 in 2008), the 2 days in the AAC itineray would probably not satisfy you. Did you have specific plans for Cape Town that would require a week?

I would think you might want more than 1 full day in the vineyards too.

But even if you linger a week, Cape Town will not be what consumes the bulk of your travel budget.

Thit Cho’s figures on Mombo are right and you do not get any green season discount there, as you would other places. If you allocated 6 nights to Botswana, doing two camps with 3 nights in each would be very logical. If you really wanted to keep Mombo, a 3-night stay would make it more affordable. Other 6-Paw (highest level of luxury) Wilderness properties include:

Jao—in the delta, focuses on water activities, has a spa.
Vumbura Plains—in the delta with water activities and excellent game viewing by vehicle. Huge, spacious rooms with beautiful modern décor.
Kings Pool—in the North in the Linyanti region. Nice hide over a water hole.
Jack’s Camp—(I think it is a 6--it is marketed by Wilderness but not owned by them) in the Makgadikgadi Makgadikgadi Pans. The time of year you are going would coincide with good wildlife viewing in this desert area.

Check e-gnu.com for the above to compare with Mombo prices.

Since you even mentioned, “accommodations are really, really important to us,” you could get Mombo-style accommodations at other 6-paws without the Mombo premium. The Mombo premium is for the exceptional wildlife viewing. The demand for the place is so high that these extreme prices are supported. The other camps I mentioned all have good wildlife too when you are going. (The area around Jack’s is sparser other times of the year but is good April-May.)

I usually stay at the less expensive 5-Paw Wilderness camps and find them to be absolutely lovely too.

You stated you always wanted to go to Singita, so I’d make sure that remains for 3 nights, even if you make cuts other places.

In addition to Africa Adventure, you could try Eyes on Africa and Fish Eagle Safaris.

Good luck.

tripgirl,

DO you really have to go to Singita. There are places in the sabi sands with better game viewing. Singita's accommadation is super luxurious but is over the top. I felt that it didn't suit the bush. Places like Exeter Leadwood or Rattray's on Mala Mala offer very luxurious accommadation but still keep the bush feel. The game viewing at the above mentioned is very very good!

Also have a look at Londolozi. Very nice! Why not split it up between possibly Singita and Mala Mala or Singita and Leadwood. You can even try Singita and Londolozi combo. They share traversing area.

Cheers,

JP

Adventure Africa Company put together a great trip for me right at your budget excluding international air and meals while not on safari. Our itinerary is:

3 nights Cape Grace
2 nights Grande Roche (winelands)
6 nights Phinda (3 at Vlei and 3 at Rock)
2 nights Singita Ebony
2 nights Singita Lebombo
1 night Saxon (johannesburg)

Our agent's name is Kyle. We really worked him over with itinerary changes to balance our taste and budget, and he was always cheerful.

Btw, we really wanted to go to Victoria Falls too, but it created too much travel time and added quite a bit of expense since we weren't combining it with Zambia or Botswana. We realized we will fall in love with Africa and go back, so we'll go the next time.

thanks all for everything!!!

This is alot to take in and the decisions here are hard!!!

I've contacted several more agents/outfitters and so we'll see what they come up with.

I know the Singita thing is really putting a "wrench" in everything and perhaps I should be more open minded to something else.

So hills27, did you feel it was worth it. And why did you stay at two Singitas; what was the difference?

Do people often combine Botswana with South africa or do usually people do one or the other first?

In any event, please keep your ideas and experiences coming!!! It is very greatly appreciated.

Don't know yet. We're going in August.

We're staying at two different Singtitas partially because of availability and partially because they are located in different areas. Ebony (and Boulders) are located in Sabi Sands. Lebombo is located within a private concession in the northern portion of Kruger. Everything I've read says it's a bit "wilder" than Sabi Sands.

hill27,

I did e mail AAC last night so we'll see what happens.

And you are not going to Botswana because....

Hi tripgirl,

I understand the dilemnas--I was torn between Singita and Mala Mala and chose the later to bring the price down a bit. You can take a look at my recent trip report that incorporates SA and Botswana at exactly the time you are going next year--it should be helpful. It cost approximately 10K pp using the Duba Plains camp which comes highly recommended by everyone. Riding the rovers through deep water was almost an exciting as watcing the lion/buffalo interaction there. My parents wanted a water camp with mekoros so they went to Xakanaxa. It was not exactly what they expected and I should have sent them to Xigera (Wilderness) or Eagle Island (Orient Express)---booking problems. I and most people I spoke with recommend going to SA first then Bots. Doing it this way gives you the opportunity to experience game reserves followed by a more wilderness experience. We stayed at Duma Tau in Linyanti but you would probably be very happy with Savuti as it was just renovated or maybe Selinda which is just North I think---it too was just renovated. You can also try Chiefs Camp, much less than Mombo but still lots of game and very luxurious. My TA lost that booking and I was a bit peeved by that. You should have no problem getting that camp now. I would recommend staying at the Royal Livingstone in Zambia over the Vic Falls hotel. Its very nice and literally a five minute walk to the Falls and the terrace overlooking the Zambezi is great. Or go all Wilderness and stay at the RIver Club about 20 km north.

Botswana wasn't really on our radar screen until we got further into our research. And by that time, we were already fully enticed by Sabi Sands, Phinda, VF, and Zambia. Which is probably a good thing, because August was the only time we could go away for an extended period this year, and Botswana would have been hard to get into and expensive.

We ended up cutting out VF and Zambia because it just got too expensive and we would have wasted so much time traveling. It was basically impossible to get from Sabi Sands to VF (or vice versa) without an overnight in J'burg. So, we added two more nights at Singita and shaved more than 6,000 off the cost.

The reason we chose to stay Phinda at Phinda for such a long time is because it has 6 different ecosystems within the reserve and there are many things to do besides the typical game driver. CCA's focus on conservation and community was an important consideration for us as well.

AAC's 800 number is 800.882.9453, in case you want to call.

TripGirl,

I mentioned you should stay at Singita if that's where you always wanted to stay and if you would be disappointed by choosing something else. But it would not be my first choice and I did not include it for my first Sabi Sands trip. Instead I chose Mala Mala (less expensive Main camp but you could stay at one of their smaller, more luxurious and exclusive properties) for the game viewing. Mala Mala would lower your price over Singita.

Hills mentions Phinda. For similar reasons as Hills mentioned, I also picked that location for a week. Forest Lodge and some of the other accommodations at Phinda have won "Best Of" awards in prestigious travel mags like Conde Naste and/or Travel and Leisure. So I'm sure those accommodations would be ones you are happy with at far less cost.

All those Botswana camps mentioned by Marseus would be really good and very luxurious, even if not the highest 6-Paw Level.

When you asked about combining Botswana and SA, it is quite common. Though I am not doing it on my next trip--just South Africa.

On the AAC phone number, I have found a call works better than emailing with them. Also if you accidentally transpose two numbers in the 3 digits, after 1-800 you get an adult chatline that prompts you for a credit card. The last four digits of the number spell WILD. There's the Africa wild and that other kind.

Lynn -

Who would have thunk it?
Amazing all the information you learn here on Fodors! :)

thanks Atravel:

Here is what is coming so far:

I had about an hour convernation with Nina Wennersten from HippoCreek Safaris ( NJ). What a gal! We clicked immediately and I am very very impressed. She is going to put together some things for me. She also suggested Phinda. I like her style and she REALLY listens! She was profiled in last years Condre Nast mag in their annual Top Agents roundups. The entire story was about her!!!!!

BNext; Heard twice now from Timeless Africa, Dr Julian. Very nice man. He can work out a number of itineraries, all a little different and it looks like he can meet the budget with Singita included.

Next, I just heard from Mark Nolting at Africa Adventure Company; just an intro e mail letter and he asked that I encl my # so he can call later today

Heard from Linda Friedman at Custom Safaris in Bethesda MD ( very close to my home) and she is going to call tonight at 6pm

Then I heard from Cherri Briggs of Explore Africa and she sent lots of ideas and other options.

Should I list you all what they all suggest?

All in all they are not too different, except that i have only had one the long conversation with Nina and she has so many specialised guides for Cape Town for example that I am really interested in. But I will see her proposal next week.

Bottom line: it loooks like I am leaning towards NOT going to Botswana for this trip, but rather Cape Town and Winelands, South Africa and Phinda. I gave Nina our interests and that we really are urbanites and while we are going there to be on safari, we want a balance. In all truth, me and DH are really NOT that much into nature ( I know that sounds terrible), we are just so urban!

anyway, allof you have been so tremendously helpful and have started me on the way. It's SO much!!!!

That's a lot of cash --- I just spent 10 days in Cape Town...I stayed at 18 on Crox guest house in Green Point...I would consider skipping Mount Nelson -- other than tea and Table Mountain views that's about it....Table Bay is nice....a truly unique experience is 18 on Crox --- they have a very large new room about read to open --- you will NOT be sorry. A township tour is a must! I'm not sure I'd bother with Robben Island --- Skip Green Market Square and go to Green Point Market (sunday only) instead.

TripGirl,

You have a lot of options. Knowing what you prefer and what you are not that interested in is key to a good trip. So what if it differs from many of us on this site who are nature nuts. Focusing on South Africa seems like a good idea for your needs and wants.

If convenient for you, it benefits others to see itineraries being offered and if you have any questions, the people on this forum can offer good insights and advice.

You and DH are on your way now!

ok...

Here is an update...


I spoke this morning with Mark Nolting at African Adventure company.

While he is certainly knowledegable, I felt he was trying to impress me more with how he is a leader in the field and about his books. He did give me alot to think about and did listen to me, but I was turned off when he asked me who else I was talking to: not really any of his business. He is sending information.

Spoke with Linda Friedman at Custom Safaris; did not like her at all, felt uncomfortable with her and she does not listen well.

Waiting to get quote ftom Nina Wennersten from Hippo safaris. I really like her and she has been so prompt with e mails even e mailing my husband when he had concerns about weather; all before she is ready to quote us.

Have not spoken personally yet to Julian at Timeless Africa, but was slightly put off by his answering service; just a voice mail with no indication that you have reached Timeless Africa. But he was prompt with e mails and details are many from him, so i will try him later today.

so that's all for now..

Well after reading all of the responses here is mine. Our budget was also 20K and we decided to take advantage of the very very end of the lower rate season to accomodate what we wanted. We leave May 28 for Cape Town and spend 5 nights and 4 days. Then Mala Mala main camp for 3 nights. Then JB one night due to connectons. We are then off to Kwestani, Chitabe and Duma Tau. We have friends that have stayed at all of these and raved about them. Then off for two nights in VF to end the trip. We have managed to use the services of Selwyn Davidowitz who posts on this board for our tours in Cape Town and we are doing private tour in JB to Soweto.

We used Nicky at Eyes on Africa and have been really pleased so far. I will let you know when we get back. She used to be with Wilderness Safaris so she encourages those, but that was fine with us as they have a great reputation.

My opinion only is that the purpose of "safari" is about the animals, and when you are tried, dirty and hungry after early mornings and late game drives, gourmet dining is not the priority. Although I must say everyone I know comes back gaining weight so the food must be pretty good.

I will post a review when we return.