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africnow Apr 13th, 2006 09:27 AM

Modern History
I will be taking two 1-week camping safaris, Tanzania and Kenya. As usual before any trip I am doing a lot of background reading.

If the [modern] history of the area interests you, I've just finished a fantastic investigative journalist's book that is fascinating, horrifying and educational. Also very well written so it is entertaining too.
George Monbiot's "No Man's Land".

Very highly recommended.

Nyamera Apr 13th, 2006 01:39 PM

And I agree with Africnow about No Man's Land.

tuskerdave Apr 13th, 2006 04:16 PM

hi, check out: THE END OF THE GAME
thx, d

africnow Apr 14th, 2006 08:26 AM

A very expensive book! Before laying out that kind of money I have a question.

The only review on amazon uk says: "It is a very well presented look at the way attitudes have changed in East Africa, from the early hunters and...Karen Blixen...and looking at how game control has evolved and the problems now facing the environment and game wardens as human impact interrupts nature's balance."

Does it also mention the local people's needs to survive?

tuskerdave Apr 14th, 2006 11:34 AM

no,dont get the expensive one. there is another version for about 30bucks.
if i find the link i will post.

africnow Apr 14th, 2006 12:17 PM

Dave, for some of us GBP30 for a single book is a lot of money :)
That is the price on

My book list is now well over 35 books. The vast majority are in the GBP15-20 range, some a good deal cheaper.

If this book is available in a paperback edition that would help.

BTW - you didn't answer my question. Does the author look at the problem from one pov only, or take into consideration the fact that people also live - or lived - there before?

tuskerdave Apr 14th, 2006 02:23 PM

sorry,for some reason i just laxed on that.
i havent had the book for at least 3yrs now-i gave it as a gift to my kenyan tour op because she was so helpful with that 2002 trip-it was special.
any way from what i remember-it is mostly about how the white man went over there with the hunting, greed, for fun stuff, and weapons how it changed everything.
from the landscape, to local peoples attitude,and of course the wildlife.
it is all kenya, TSAVO,the railroad being built, the man-eaters of tsavo, drought,poaching ect.
he does and have pics of tribes in there. it is kinda depressing and his views a bit over the top. but if you want to be honest-it really isnt.
i wish i still had the book. been meaning to get it again-i should.
many many old pics in there.
also text from his diary and pattersons(the guy who took out the man-eaters).the book i had was a soft cover.:
something like that.
i saw that for hundreds of dollars-NOT THAT!
not sure if this helps.
ps, if you guys want to see some MASSIVE TUSKERS from those days-oh my god.what a shame.i am being nice.

africnow Apr 14th, 2006 04:58 PM

Thanks. I appreciate the info.

tuskerdave Apr 14th, 2006 06:40 PM

hi, let me know one day if you get it or not.

fuzzylogic Apr 15th, 2006 05:06 AM

Africnow - just wanted to say that that is a brilliant recommendation. GM writes still for "The Guardian" and is the voice in the wilderness we must have.

I would also recommend Patrick Marnham's "Fantastic Invasion" (if it's still in print).

All the best.

africnow Apr 15th, 2006 09:24 AM

Thanks fuzzy. I have been following some of his articles since I found him on the internet too. An interesting kind of person - I am much impresses.

Thanks for the recommendation. I found it on Abebooks :)

Nyamera Apr 15th, 2006 10:37 AM

Re. The end of the Game. I’ve had a look at it in Nairobi and would have bought it if it weren’t for the price. There are some impressive photos, mostly of dead elephants. Peter Beard is an artist and an eccentric. I don’t think local people’s needs to survive are of his concern. I’d say he’s more into gory but aesthetically pleasing ways of dying, or something like that.

Have a look at In the Dust of Kilimanjaro by David Western or maybe Fortress Conservation by Dan Brockington.

africnow Apr 15th, 2006 11:46 AM

Hi Nyamera,

"I’d say he’s more into gory but aesthetically pleasing ways of dying,..." :))

Pardon me but that statement just got to me!

Sorry to say that I feel the same way about the price of "The End of the Game", especially since the shipping makes it a good bit more expensive.

Will also check out those others. Thanks again!

tuskerdave Apr 15th, 2006 12:46 PM

hi again, about the end of the game. are you guys still looking at the hundreds of dollars books? that is not what i had.the book i had only cost 30dollars at barnes and noble.
they had to order it-that cost me nothing.
what i got mostly of out it was he was trying to show the plight of the wildlife. how everything changed when the mzungus decided to go over there and change everything. for the worse.
he mentions one thing about one of our US PRES. teddy rozevelt (spelling?) yeah it is wrong. any way teddy had said something like:
"why else would this wilderness be here other than to be penetrated?"
teddy was a big game hunter-when he got his fill then he decided it should be conserved. go figure.
karen blixon-she had her hand in the killing also. she is no angel!how can someone say they love the place so much and everything it stands for-then go out with boys and kill everything.
so again thats what i got from it.he was just letting the world know that the mzungu again pushed his selfish weight around and spoiled it forever.
thx, d

fuzzylogic Apr 16th, 2006 05:10 AM

Tusker - aren't you a mzungu too?

And it's "Blixen".

Let's hear your review of George Monbiot's work.

Nyamera Apr 16th, 2006 05:48 AM

Tuskerdave isn’t a mzungu, he’s a kalulu.

My review of George Monbiot’s work is that after reading No Man’s Land I started googling to find out if he was married.

africnow Apr 16th, 2006 06:01 AM

All right, I've picked up mzungu from my reading, but this is a new word for me:
kalulu ?

Nyamera Apr 16th, 2006 06:05 AM

Kalulu is not in the dictionary, but according to Tuskerdave’s translation it means “nutty guy”.

tuskerdave Apr 16th, 2006 06:11 AM

hi, yep i am a mzungu.why?
the blixen spelling-doesnt really matter does it?-it was known.
sue-as you know,i am a mzungu and a kalulu!oh dont forget mcahwi too.
kalulu- someone who is a bit on the kookoo side.nutty, out in left field that kind of thing.
thx, d

africnow Apr 16th, 2006 06:15 AM

Thanks for the explanations!

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