climbhighsleeplow

2 families lived next door to each other in a row house complex.

One day family 1 decided to wallpaper the interior of their house. A few months later, family 2 decided to do the same.

So family 2 asked family 1. "You house is the same as ours. How many rolls of wall paper did you use?"

"15 rolls", was the response.

A month later a somewhat agitated family 2 confronted family 1. "You told us 15 rolls". "We have 5 rolls left over!"

Family 1 responded innocently. "So have we!"

Anyone get the relevance?

Jess, I gave you the facts but the decision is yours! Good luck and have a great trip!

toontowndoc

climbhighsleeplow
I couldn't resist posting a repy to your recent responses on this thread since I know that you know me well.At this point in my African travel experience which is very limited,and so far has only consisted of one journey to East Africa so far via A&K in 2006,I might offer my humble opinion as to why Jess may be leaning to the higher priced operator despite much less expensive and higher quality options-
1.Reputation by way of print media-"award-winning operators" and possibly by way of friends experiences with these companies or referrals from agents-this is what led us to choose A&K back in 2006.
2. A feeling of security knowing that you have a tour director with you at all times to deal with any eventuality-this may be important for a female travellor travelling to a part of the world where she has never been-I know my spouse felt this way initially for this trip even though she has travelled a fair bit in this world without me around.
3. A big plus for many gals,my wife included is meeting and travelling with others.I am more of a loner,and the idea of a private safari would appeal to me more readily.Many of my spouse's travel memories revolve around the people she met while travelling-hence no problem with the group approach even at a higher price.
4.The money issue-to you and I a big deal,but for many it is not the most important factor for a journey such as this...
Some parting comments on this discussion from a personal perspective:My wife and I had a truly memorable experience in East Africa,and hence we are returning in September.I found this board a few weeks after booking with A&K in the fall of 2006 so gained a vast amount of info. that really enhanced our experience in Africa.Would I have not booked with them if I got some more advice on this forum that would have saved me a lot of money for a similar journey?-maybe not as a first timer.Now however,having travelled there,I see that a private safari booked via a knowlegable,African and North-American based agent will provide us with the specific travel experiences we desire,at a reasonable cost.And most important for us some of that money we saved can be given directly back to some specific NGO projects and villages in East Africa when we visit again,so more of our resources help in enhancing the lives of the local people we meet.
And for Jess-have a wonderfull trip!!!

atravelynn

Here is a past discussion on this same topic.

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...4&tid=34926197

LyndaS

I am not usually controversial at all by nature, as a matter of a fact I have been accused all of my life of being far too wishy-washy and always attempting to put on a refereee shirt, but I really feel I should put in a brief comment here.

I fail to see why anyone would continually harp at me for making a choice of an operator, no matter who that operator or outfitter is. To me it all comes to:

1. personal choice & preferences
2. different priorities for different people.

It's the same as a one person who buys an Escalade, and the other who buys a Patriot. They both do basically the same thing. Who's right and who's wrong? No one, it's their choice.

Or, two people living in a 6000 sq ft 1.6m $ house across the street from two other people living in a 2000 sq ft $750,000 home. Is the person who uses less space & $$$$ to live wiser? Not really, it's all personal choice, and personal preference.

Now here's where personal priorities come in - we don't drive the Escalade, and we don't live in the 1.6m $ home. Our priorities are on trips and vacations, and as a consumer if I want to pay more because I believe in the quality of what I am buying, and like the product, then please let me do it, and accept it graciously. It's not a choice I think EVERYONE should make, I'm just telling you of mine.

Now, I must get back to doing people's taxes to earn those $$$ for the safari, it's not over yet here in Canada until April 30th! (how miserable) Although I did take time out this afternoon though to go to WalMart (interesting store on a Sunday afternoon...) and stock up on pens, pencils, crayons, t-shirts, bling-bling jewellery, stickers, etc etc etc for some families in Africa that we met last year, and of course Micato's AmericaShares project at Mukuru slums.

Jess215

Thanks, guys, for all the support. I agree: to each his/her own and - like everyone else, I appreciate not being treated like an idiot even when you may be utterly convinced that I am making an easily avoidable mistake. Sounds like CHSL has done a lot of research and has not received much in the way of acknowledgement. Sounds like CHSL may be feeling frustrated when people ask quesions but, from his/her point of view, aren't really hearing his/her suggestions. Let's respect that so we can continue the conversation.

LyndaS

Yes, I agree Jess, CHSL has done some amazing research, and I will second the notion of recognizing that, he has always been a GREAT wealth of knowledge on this board, and is well respected. And I do thank him for the research, it is valuable information for many people.

And, I will keep all of that in mind when we retire and have plenty of time for the research and the back and forth to find lodgings, etc, or when we go with a group of friends - that would be a perfect time to investigate a private safari.

climbhighsleeplow

Jess - well said and thank you! An educated consumer is a happy consumer and this is true on safari as well. By reading Fodors and consuming the ideas posted here you are already well underway to a great safari. I cannot think of a single person who returned unhappy after asking for safari advice here - regardless of the style of travel and the expected conflicting ideas!

Lynda - when I read your posts I think "positive energy"! You see the best in everything and everybody. You were so happy with your first safari to East Africa. Please forgive me for wondering if you might be even happier with a luxury tented safari (at no extra costs than your current plans, possible much cheaper!) Please consider it some day!

Imagine a small group of 6 to 10 like-minded safari-goers, and their guides, and a Maasai askari or two, sitting around a big fire in the middle of the Serengeti plains. The stars are so bright you can easily figure out the signs of the Zodiac - Leo, Aries - and the Southern Cross!

Around you, the sounds of the night keeps you guessing. Was that grunt a lion? A leopard perhaps? The Maasai askaris tell their stories (and they have many). You learn of life so different (yet similar) than your own, of joy, of innocense, of hardship. Your fellow guests share their sightings of the day, your guides share notes - tommorrow you will know where to look for the baby leopards you missed today!

At dinner, your guides join you around a big table. Fine wines are served in long-stemmed glasses, beer is chilled, food is prepared as YOU like it (having discussed the menu with the chef earlier in the day), and the evenings entertainment is not a tired floor show but a group of elephants that is trying to destroy the tree next to tent 6. The toast is a "thank you" for an opportunity to be in such a magical place with a small group of newly-found friends. You wish the couple in tent 6 good luck with their elephants!

Later in the evening you are escorted to your tent; the linen is turn over, your lamps glow warmly and your clean laundry is neatly folded on the dresser. As you drift of to sleep, you wonder why you have never thought of using a hot water bottle at home!

Your wake-up call is sharp at 6am. Coffee, tea and cookies on the verandah of your tent. You look outside. The rising sun is striking the open plains. Baboons are fighting over something in a tree to your left. It is a beautiful day. Bird sounds are everywhere. Today you will not drive around much. With a picnic lunch, the plan is to park the Landcruiser at the riverbed where your guide saw leopard and lion tracks. Since it is a private safari, you will wait - all day if you have to. The lions had an unsuccessful hunt yesterday near the water. Something is about to happen.

moremiles

CHSL-wow, sounds like absolutely the best safari one could imagine and I am keeping all your recommendations in mind for future trips. Thanks for transporting me this morning.

atravelynn

Looks like Lynda is going to need far more than 2 safaris to decide the perfect safari setup. Then there are all the other countries beyond East Africa to consider.

So keep doing those taxes Lynda to amass enough funds to research safaris with all the outfitters that have been mentioned here. It would also be nice if you could scout out some that we are not currently aware of. You know, staying ahead of the curve for your fellow Fodorites.

Then after completing your trips don't forget to write them all up, staple them together , and include them in the proper trip report indices.

Little did you know that creating East Africa Trip Report Index was only step #1.

ClimbHighSleepLow
I'm ready for those Serengeti plains and the Maasai askari and the eles outside the tents. Can you put them all on hold for a couple of years? I'll be getting back to you.

cw

CHSL,

I love your poetic description of the tented camp experience. I've made a note of your earlier suggestions. Sleeping under canvas is such a wonderful experience in Africa, a perfect complement to the daytime game drives.

CW

hausfrau

CHSL, I loved your description too, and I have to say that Kichwa Tembo camp in the Masai Mara was our favorite for many of the reasons you describe. IF (hopefully WHEN!) I return to Africa, I will definitely be interested in staying in more CC Africa camps. I was very impressed with their whole operation.

With that said, I still stand by all that LyndaS and others have said in support of Micato and "high-end tours" or whatever you want to call them. Micato's staff were top-notch every step of the way. We felt like it was worth every penny.

I'd like to add that Micato had hands-down the best safari vehicles we saw on our entire trip, and this was very important given the horrible road conditions following this winter's rains. The one place we didn't use Micato vehicles was at Kichwa Tembo, and theirs were terrible (there'll be a story about them in my journal!).

sandi

CHSL - How beautiful... a poet! I couldn't compete in describing the small, luxury camps and the uniqueness of their surroundings in Tanzania and/or Kenya. Almost brought me to tears to think I have to wait 31/days till I'm outta here and "going to Afree-kah." It can never get here soon enough!

LyndaS is right though. There are different kinds of travelers for all sorts of reasons. Some want a group, don't care if the prices are 25-35% higher than a private safari. C'est la vie!

climbhighsleeplow

Oh boy! My inspiration for the "poetry" was not a large 40-tent camp with a fence around it - Kichwa - but I appreciate the kind words nonetheless

Hausfrau, considering that you paid IMO 130% more than the average client for your nights at that camp, I hope you raise the matter with your agent. There is no excuse for not giving you the best cars they had.

To anyone:
I am surprised to hear that Micato has cars (and employ guides) in Tanzania. I mistakenly thought the cars and guides are from Wildersun Safaris and they simply put Micato stickers on the sides. Anyone has insight here?

hausfrau

CHSL, I loved Kichwa Tembo. If that means I would like the smaller private tented camps you are talking about even more, then great, I hope that someday I'll get to experience them.

I don't think we need to debate the cost issue any further - to each his own - but I am curious about what you said about the vehicles. I didn't see any "better" vehicles at Kichwa Tembo, and Bateleur Camp had the very same trucks - all were modified Land Rovers. IMHO they were run-down and incredibly dangerous for the passengers - difficult to hang on over bumps, no seat belts, open-sided, virtually no rain protection. I will definitely be mentioning this concern to Micato, for what it's worth.

I have no idea where Micato gets its vehicles in Tanzania but they were virtually identical to the Land Cruisers that we had in Kenya. Our guide in Tanzania was also top-notch. I certainly got the impression that he was a Micato employee.

sandi

CHSL -

Believe you're right re the Micato vehicles in Tanzania; they use a TNZ outfitter and smack that Micato sign on the vehicle doors. A&K did/does the same, especially when they run out of their own vehicles. But things have changed with A&K as they no longer have a base in Kenya/Tanzania... haven't kept up on their situation these days.

hausfrau -

I had to chuckle with your description of the CCA Kichwa Tembo and Bateleur vehicles. Those are the vehicles that most safari visitors dream of... Range Rovers, specially modified for safari game drives. Open, rolled-up flaps to protect for bad weather.

There's always some question whether closed or open, 4WD or minibus, which has been discussed regularly on these boards. For clients who do fly-in/out safaris, using lodge or camp vehicles, these Range Rover-type vehicles are what is most often provided; especially so, for the small lux camps.

Guess, it's all in the eyes of the beholder, as I've heard many comments of the Micato or A&K vehicles not being up to par with other outfitters; safari goers complaining that they were disappointed. Hey, it may have been a bad day.

atravelynn

ClimbHighSleepLow,
So your internet talents extend beyond the mapmaking into the eloquent prose! Of course Africa is an inspiring muse.

Hausfrau,
When I read your vehicle description, I thought to myself, "That's most vehicles." What's worse is when they've been stuck in mud for a few days and submerged in water. (Duba Plains) When you get one of those babies you have to be real careful where you set down your bird book.

But your comment on vehicles is a good one since this discussion has come up a lot lately. As Sandi mentions what you have described is considered the dream vehicle for some, but it was more of a nightmare for you. People considering a minivan vs. a Range Rover should know your take on the Rover so they choose wisely.

If everyone who travels with Micato, Tauk, and A&K wanted to go with the other operators instead, then those prices would esclate due to increased demand. Bad for us tourists, good for those agents who post here. So I'm glad we have a range of companies to cater to a range of interests.

Some of us come to the "party" in a limo and others on a mountain bike. The big thing is we got invited and it's nice to wave at each other as we go by. Then we can compare sightings and experiences on Fodors when we get back.

You really can mountain bike in Mashatu in Botswana and now Tafika in Zambia and I think Lake Manyara in Tanzania.

LyndaS

Thankyou, Eben, I do try to make the best of everything & see the glass half full! I believe there is more good than bad in this world, but sometimes the good does get sideswiped!

Your description also brought to mind Kichwa Tembo, we loved it too, and I didn't think it had too many people there with 40 tents. Living in a city the size of Vancouver - well, hey anything under 200,000 would be small to me But I, like hausfrau will look forward to someday trying a small exclusive camp based on your writing, it sounds great! You are a great writer, you can be my assistant on the index!!!

Lynn, you are right - I think we each need at least 10 safaris to decide on which one was best!! And I for one will take up the challenge, me and my trusty little stapler - maybe Dennis will help me staple them all together when I am done!!!

The vehichles by the way (for Sandi & Eben) are not other safari outfit vehichles in TZ with signs over them - they are Micato vehicles and drivers - 100% all the way (well, with a small exception, noted later in this paragraph). Sandi, you had mentioned this last year before I went, so I made a note to ask about this when there. Micato has a complete fleet of vehichles for Tanzania, and the driver/guides are all employees of Micato, and they all live in Tanzania - that is the only way Micato can have car & drivers there. The cars are bought in TZ, the driver/guides are from TZ and have lived there all their lives. Ours, Bernard, has worked for Micato for 10 years, as has most of them he told me. They all work exclusivly for Micato. He did tell me though that there are times when they add extra safaris, outside of their normal agenda that they may hire a car & driver from another company. I was told this usually happens in July or August on the Stanley Wing - once they fill the weekly ones up, and people ask to go on a wait list, they will add safaris. And since all of their vehichles would be taken up with the regular weekly safaris, then they may have to hire a car & driver from elsewhere.

In Zanzibar though, they do indeed hire out a company to do the driving & guiding - but they don't cover the company's name etc. I can't recall the name of the company though, I'd have to look at some pictures. The guide, and the driver, both wear the Micato shirt and hat though. Which is good, as I REALLY needed them at the airport & they were easily recognizable!

I found the vehicles at Kichwa Tembo really hard to get into!!! and, because of that, the guide said to sit in the front seat - which was 'view challenged' at times! Other than that, I liked the open vehichle. But, I must admit, I was far more comfortable in the Land Cruisers - the seats were more comfortable, I liked the pop-up roof, the sliding windows that opened all the way for great out- -of-the-window shots, and I liked the room in them.

hausfrau

Not to continue hijacking Jess's thread, but this discussion of vehicles has got me going. I saw a huge variety of vehicles in Kenya and Tanzania, but there were two very common ones: Toyota Land Cruisers and those little minibuses or minivans, I'm thinking they were also Toyotas, several of which we saw broken down by the side of the road over the course of our trip!

At Kichwa Tembo they had Land Rovers. Land Crusiers and Land Rovers are not the same thing. Micato's Land Cruisers are fully enclosed, with sliding windows and a large pop-top. This means the vehicle can be completely closed up when driving through tse-tse fly areas or in a rainstorm, but with the top up and windows open, you have great views. They have comfortable seats, with seat belts if you care to use them, and convenient grab handles. With the top up there is a bar all the way around the roof to hang onto. I actually spent a lot of my time standing up at the back of the truck, enjoying the wind in my hair and the 360-degree view. I should add that these vehicles were clean and well-maintained. I remember we asked our guide about the maintenance on the vehicles and they are checked out after each and every safari.

The Land Rovers at Kichwa Tembo had two bench seats, no seat belts or grab handles, open sides, and looked/sounded like they were about to fall apart. One of ours overheated. Like Lynda said, they were very hard to get in and out of. Sure you could see well out of them, but I actually found it more difficult to take photos from these vehicles because there was nothing to brace against.

I would take a Land Cruiser over those Land Rovers any day.

Lynda, thanks for clarifying Micato's vehicle/driver situation in Tanzania. That's what I figured but I didn't want to assume.

Jess215

For Micato's Heart of East Africa plus Zanzibar extension, I assume that I'll be taking the Micato rolling duffle (OR EQUIVALENT) which I gather weighs 8 pounds - and there is a 33 pound limit: CAN ANYONE TELL ME, PLEASE, THE DIMENSIONS OF THIS PIECE?
Also, could you confirm that I can also bring any kind of daybag (or tote bag)that can double as a carryon on my flights between the US to Nairobi.
And lastly (for now): regarding those flights, is it true, at least as of this date, IF I FLY THROUGH HEATHROW, that I can ONLY carry on that single daybag or tote, and that if I want to take a purse, also, I cannot (unless of course it fits into the tote). Is it true that all other airline/airports allow the tote AND the purse?And that this is not a problem on the Micato internal flights, etc.?
I'd really appreciate this information (you can skip telling me about the liquids/gels, etc. - I know about that).

climbhighsleeplow

Jess

I flew via London to Nairobi and Atlanta just a few weeks ago. What a pain!

Only ONE bag (computers, ladies purses, etc all are considered ONE bag). It is crazy and they don't budge.

BTW, your ONE bag will be placed in the size box to check the dimensions. My 9" by 15" by 23" bag JUST made it inside the box.

And yes, you must have you liquids and stuff (small quantities only) in a clear bag in your hand when you pass through security.