Looking for feedback on planned safari
 

We are well into the process of putting together a 3 week wildlife safari for summer of 2007 for 4 people. We've spent the last several months researching, reading comments online, talking to tour operators and developing a plan that fits our interests, accomodations and time restraints. This is what we have developed so far:

Day 1 – Arrival
• Travel:
o Arrive Nairobi
• Lodging:
o Sarova Stanley Hotel

Day 2 – Queen Elizabeth NP
• Travel
o Early flight to Entebbe/Kampala in morning
o Drive to Queen Elizabeth NP (5 hours)
• Activities
o Wildlife viewing as time allows
• Lodging
o Jacana Luxury Camp

Day 3 – Queen Elizabeth NP
• Activities
o Morning-Chimpanzee trekking in Kyambura Gorge
o Afternoon/sunset boat cruise on Kazinga Channel
• Lodging
o Jacana Luxury Camp

Day 4 – Queen Elizabeth NP / Bwindi Impenetrable Forest NP,
• Activities (Morning)
o Wildlife viewing: Tree-climbing lions
• Travel:
o Drive to Bwindi (5 hours)
• Lodging:
o Gorilla Forest Camp

Day 5 - Bwindi Impenetrable Forest NP
• Activities:
o Gorilla Tracking
o Afternoon walk to Batwa village, if time allows
• Lodging:
o Gorilla Forest Camp

Day 6 - Bwindi Impenetrable Forest NP / Parc National des Volcans
• Travel:
o Drive to Ruhengeri / Kinigi (5-6 hours)
• Lodging:
o Gorilla Nest Lodge

Day 7 - Parc National des Volcans
• Activities
o Gorilla Tracking
o Trek to Dian Fossey’s Karisoke Research Station and grave
• Lodging:
o Gorilla Nest Lodge

Day 8 - Parc National des Volcans
• Activities:
o Gorilla Tracking (different group) • Lodging:
oTravel
o Drive to Kigali (3 hours) (Clock – 1 Hr)
Lodging in Kigali

Day 9 - Kigali/ Serengeti NP•
Travel
o Fly to Arusha
o Drive to Serengeti NP -OR- Fly charter from Kigali direct to Serengeti NP (price options)
• Activities:
o Wildlife viewing
• Lodging:
o Serengeti Migration Camp

Day 10 – Serengeti
• Activities:
o Wildlife viewing
• Lodging:
o Serengeti Migration Camp

Day 11 – Serengeti
• Activities:
o Wildlife viewing
• Travel:
o Drive to Grumeti

Day 12
• Lodging:
o Grumeti River Camp
o Crocodiles)
• Lodging:
o Grumeti River Camp

Day 13 – Serengeti/Ngorongoro Crater,
• Travel:
o Drive to Ngorongoro Crater via Olduvai Gorge
• Activities:
o Visit to Olduvai Gorge/Leakey Dig Site
o Evening wildlife viewing in crater
• Lodging:
o Ngorongoro Serena Lodge –

Day 14 - Ngorongoro Crater
• Activities
o Morning wildlife viewing in crater
• Lodging:
o Ngorongoro Serena Lodge

Day 15 – Ngorongoro Crater/Tarangire NP,
• Travel:
o Drive to Tarangire
• Activities:
o Wildlife viewing
• Lodging Options
o Tarangire Safari Lodge Requested: Tent (not bungalow)

Day 16 - Tarangire NP
• Activities:
o Wildlife viewing (Elephants)
• Lodging Options
o Tarangire Safari Lodge

Day 17 – Tarangire NP / Massai Mara,
• Travel:
o Drive to Massai Mara (6 hours)
• Activities:
o Wildlife viewing
• Lodging:
o Mara Siria Camp

Day 18 - Maasai Mara
• Activities:
o Wildlife viewing
• Lodging:
o Mara Siria Camp

Day 19 - Maasai Mara
• Activities:
o Hot Air Balloon ride
o Wildlife viewing
• Lodging:
o Mara Siria Camp

Day 20 – Maasai Mara/Nairobi
• Travel:
o Drive to Nairobi for flight home
• Lodging (if needed, depending on return flight time)
o Sarova Stanley Hotel

We would greatly appreciate any comments, suggestions or thoughts in helping us fine tune our plans.

Could you tell us when in the summer you are going? It will make a difference in the responses for your Serengeti part of the trip.

What a comprehensive itinerary!

Looks good through Uganda/Rwanda. If you didn't have 2 gorilla treks in Rwanda, I'd say 1 in Bwindi is not enough.

Jacana Lodge is very near the bat cave in QE. If you like them, you'll absolutely love the bat cave. We also saw pythons that feed on the bats and live in the cave. You can enter the shallow cave and look at the pythons in the rocks. You could do it the a.m. of Day 4. That's when I went, before departing for Bwindi.

The odds of seeing tree climbing lions are 30% according to my guide. That matches my personal experience seeing them in the Ishasha region of QE.

If you have time when you return to Kigali after the gorilla tracking, it is very worthwhile to see the Never Again Memorial. I was able to see it after a gorilla visit, upon arriving in Kigali, just like you are doing.

"Day 9 - Kigali/ Serengeti NP•
Travel
o Fly to Arusha
o Drive to Serengeti NP -OR- Fly charter from Kigali direct to Serengeti NP (price options) "

I'd get some times for the driving option to be sure it is possible to cover that distance.

In the Serengeti, you may want to spend all 4 nights in one spot--wherever is best for the time of year you are going.
Just less moving around.

I'd also see if you really can drive from Tarangire to the Mara in 6 hours. Maybe--but that does not seem right to me. I've never driven it, though. Your other times seem reasonable based on my experience.

At the end if you can fly from the Mara back to Nairobi, I think that would be preferable to a long drive at the end. If you take the early flight out of the Mara, then you can do some shopping if you like. Or you can stay a little longer in the Mara (always my choice) and take the later flight which leaves mid-afternoon and gets in with plenty of time for your international flight home. Either flight allows you enough time for a final safari dinner at the Carnivore Restaurant if you are interested.

Should be a super trip.

Thank you for your thorough response and great feedback. We're planning on starting the trip mid-July, so that will put us in Tanzania towards the end of the month.
I understand your thoughts of staying in one place in the Serengeti, but we thought Grumeti River would be worth checking out.
Any other thoughts would be appreciated.

I visited Uganda and Rwanda in August 2003, and I had substantially the same first eight days (but I only did one trek in both of Bwindi and PNV). I only read thru the first eight days, but its an easy trip. You may not, however, be able to drive thru QENP to view the tree-climbing lions on the way to Bwindi -- we were told the southern sector of QENP was not that safe (incursions from DRC), and we had to drive outside the park to get to Bwindi -- nonetheless it was a very scenic drive.

Michael

Either Aug 2003 was an isolated time of danger in Ishasha or I was doing some risky lion viewing in Aug of 2002 and June of 2004. Yikes! The area was open to campers and we met several on both trips.

With more specific dates your Serengeti camps make sense.

Welcome home, Thit Cho!

Tokitae-
On day 7 in Rwanda, you have both gorilla trekking and visiting the old KRC site and Dian's grave.
Are you planning to do both on the same day? Or one or the other?

I don't think you will have time to do both as they both require several hours of trekking both up and down the volcanos.

If you only have the two days of trekking in Rwanda and one in Bwindi, I would focus on doing the gorilla treks and maybe save the gravesite visit for another time.

Divewop,
Yes, we were thinking about doing the gorilla trek and visiting the grave site in one day. One tour op had mentioned that we would use the same guide to go to visit the grave that we use in the morning on the gorilla trek. (I was told it was an additional $75) From your message that sounds like that was bad info. Our focus is the animals, so I think you are right about trying to do too much. Thank you for the suggestion.
T

Good point from Divewop on the gravesite. If you have time and energy, then a visit would be nice. I was thinking you could decide on a visit to the gravesite after your gorilla tracking. If you had to book the Fossey visit and pay for it in advance, then I would not make that commitment up front.

One other thought came to me on Bwindi. If you would like to arrange some time with the Pygmies who now live nearby, you could mention that to your agent. In the past I have visited their homes or they have come to camp to sing and dance or they have met us after gorilla tracking and put on their performance. They also have baskets and things you can buy. I believe there is a fee you pay for their dancing and singing entertainment.

I was told the Pygmies have been displaced from DRC by war or have been removed from the jungle to make a larger range for the gorillas. As a result they are are living a different life than they have in the past, when they inhabited the jungle, and they are trying to survive. The performances help out.

You could meet the Pygmies on that first day you arrive in Bwindi.

You'll have to do a trip report when you return.

Tokitae-
I don't think they meant to give you bad info on the gravesite visit and gorilla trekking in the same day, but it will be very tough to do.

Usually, you leave for Karisoke/grave the same time folks leave for gorilla trekking.
Karisoke is in between Mounts Bisoke and Karisimbi. Karisimbi is known for the Susa Group which is the toughest and longest trek of the gorilla groups to get to.

There may be a possibility they could be very close to the park wall and if so, it would only take a brief walk to visit them which would allow you to time to then trek over to visit the gravesite.

But in my experience, they have never been close to the wall. I wish!! ;)

Karisoke/gravesite, in my opinion, is a little bit of a challenging trek too. It's a beautiful place, one of my favs, and worth it to be able to spend time up there once you get there. I don't want to see you have to rush up and down the volcano for time's sake.

Luckily, you shouldn't have to pay for the gravesite visit until the morning you are at PNV because it's not fully booked like the gorilla treks. Just play it by ear once you arrive. The guides at PNV will advise you if it can be done.

Atravelynn,
Good suggestion...keep the KRS trek as an option, if time allows. I also appreciate hearing about the pygmies, that is the first I have heard of them in Bwindi...definitely sounds interesting.
thanks
T

You can't visit the gravesite and trek the gorillas in one day...they have to be done on separate days unfortunately, same as the golden monkeys.

Your trip looks fantastic. But it does look like an awful lot of driving. Why drive from the Serengeti to Tarangire only to go back to the Masai Mara by vehicle. I'd try to add some flights in there to break up the long drives.

If it was me, I'd either do Uganda or Rwanda. I hear it's easier to access and see the gorillas in Rwanda over Uganda. But I've only been to Rwanda. I'd stay in Rwanda longer and spend more time in the country...go to Lake Kivu, etc...unless there is some draw to Uganda other than than the gorillas and tree climbing lions (which you may see in Tanzania).

Also, I'd look into the Virunga Lodge or the new Governor's Lodge instead of Gorillas Nest.

Lucia-
The new Governor's Lodge hasn't even broken ground yet so I doubt it will be available in the summer of '07.

Gorilla's Nest is adequate enough for the main purpose of trekking being so close to PNV and not minding the accommodation and/or sometimes lack of hot water.

Virunga Lodge is nice and I like nice too, and having stayed at both, for location's sake, I'd opt for Gorilla's Nest.

Good to know Divewop. I stayed at the Hotel Murabura in Ruhengeri...which I'd definitely recommend. It doesn't take all that much longer to get the PNV from there than it does from Gorilla's Nest and it's $30 a night and we always had hot water and it wasn't cold at all.

Lucia,
Thank you for your thoughts. I hear that the treking in Uganda can be a bit daunting...but, for us, that adds to the experience.
I think you are right about adding in some flights in Tanzania/Kenya segments to limit the driving. Not sure where yet, but I agree..we don't want to spend too much time in transit.
Thanks again,
T

I hope for 13moons' sake that the new Governors lodge is completed by summer 2007 (she's booked there) ;)

Tokitae,
I'll just echo some of the logistics comments already mentioned by others.

Day 9 Kigali to Serengeti - As far as I know only Rwandair flies nonstop between Kigali and Kilimanjaro airport (near Arusha) and this flight only operates twice a week arriving in the afternoon. On other days, you'll need to transit via Nairobi and it'll also probably be afternoon if not evening by the time you reach Kilimanjaro airport. I don't believe there's any possibility to continue by road to the Serengeti that same day.

Day 17 Tarangire to Masai Mara - Not possible to drive in one day. Just the drive from Nairobi to the Mara takes 6 hours. You could consider driving from Tarangire to Arusha/Kilimanjaro and taking the afternoon flight to Nairobi, connecting to the Mara flight, and arriving in the late afternoon.

Day 20 - About 6 hours if you drive. At the end of a 3 week trip, you'd probably appreciate a 45 min flight back instead.

Good luck with your planning!

Patty-
Yikes! Do you know who 13 moons booked her trip through? I sure hope she reads this thread. And has a back-up plan.
My info on the lodge was told to me only two weeks ago from one of the scientists at the Karisoke Research Center in Ruhengeri.
And knowing how slow things move in Rwanda, even if they break ground soon, I don't know if they will have it completed by summer of '07.
However, I will continue to get updates as often as I can and keep everyone posted.

Coastal flies daily from JRO via Seronera to Kigali and back. It's a costly ticket, but if you're in Seronera, it's a whole lot easier than returning to Arusha, then Wilson to JKIA or to JRO to JKIA; hoping you make the afternoon flight to Kigali.

Agree with others, no way can you drive from Tarangire to the Masai Mara (and live to tell about it with a smile on your face; for sure your bottom won't be smiling).

- Tarangire to Arusha (min. 2/hrs); Arusha to Namanga (min 1.5/hrs); Namanga to Nairobi (min 3-4/hrs); Nairobi to Masai Mara (min 5/hrs... probably 6/hrs). Best to drive to Tarangire, then 1:45pm flight to Wilson to connect to 3pm flight to Masai Mara.

divewop,
It sounds like her Governors stay is self booked but I'm not sure http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34883298

Dates are here http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34889026

Maybe you could add an update there too.

Patty,
Thank you for your input on travel times, that is a big help. Our day 9 travel is on a Monday, so there is a flight from Kigali to Arusha that arrives around 2pm. Does that allow enough time to drive to Serengeti? How many hours drive is it.
The other flights you suggest make sense as well. This input is very helpful in putting together our final plan for a great safari. Thanks much.

From Arusha without a stop and over some bumpty bumpy roads takes about 8+/hrs. Arriving Arusha at 2pm won't cut it. Besides you can't be on National Park lands after dark. You can't even make it to Ngorongoro; closest would be Lake Manyara (about 2.5/hrs).

However, there is a flight leaving JRO at about 2:30pm which I believe picks up in Arusha 2:40pm. From here the flight goes to Lake Manyara and then onto the Seronera airstrip.

I'd check if you can't take the morning flight on Coastal from Kigali to Seronera (from here plane continues to Arusha), before turning around and going West to Seronera and then Kigali.

I don't know the exact number of hours it takes to drive from Kilimanjaro to the northern Serengeti but it's long! Hopefully someone else can give you a time estimate.

You may want to check if it's still possible to catch an afternoon flight to the Serengeti with a 2:00pm arrival at Kilimanjaro. I'm not sure what time the last afternoon flight leaves. Might be very tight.

The Coastal Kigali-Seronera flight that sandi mentioned sounds like the easiest option (but a pricey one).

I think it would be a very, very long drive from Arusha to Serengeti, and I'm not sure it's possible arriving at 2pm as you're not to drive in the park after dark (I believe). <b>At least</b> six/seven hours, I would think. Plus you're headed up to Migration Camp, aren't you? That would make it even longer. I haven't read everyone's comments, but have you considered going to the Crater before the Serengeti?

I guess Patty and Sandi beat me to the punch with better info. Also, you can check go-safari.com for flight schedules and routes.

Tokitae, sounds like a really interesting trip you're planning.

P.S. - When checking flights, make sure you know which airport is used for arrival/departure. Arusha and Kilimanjaro airports are about 45 minutes apart, so it does make a difference. With a 2:00pm arrival at JRO, you might be able to make a 2:30pm (you'll need a little time to clear immigration and pick up you bags) but it would leave no room for delays.

In case you start to reconsider Uganda. You can definitely do some daunting treks in Rwanda...namely seeing the Susa group. Before I left for my trip, a lot of people kept telling me to stop jumping around from place to place (at the time I was planning a 2 week trip to Rwanda and Tanzania...it ended up being Kenya due to the easier flights). At the time, I couldn't really understand it...since it felt like a once-in-a-lifetime trip, I wanted to get everything in. Now, I'm so glad I got that feedback. The time in transit isn't too fun and it certainly isn't as fun as spending time with the gorillas. Some tour operators can make the in-transit time seem like it's the same as being on safari (I love the expression used...afternoon game drive while transferring:)).

If you're only going to Uganda to see the gorillas, I'd would suggest saving the extra $$$ from the flight and long drive to Bwindi to do extra gorilla treks in Rwanda (or vice versa). You could probably do at least another one for what you save. 4 gorilla treks, a visit to Nyungwe Rainforest (for some light trekking to see the waterfalls and orchids), a trip to Lake Kivu to relax...you can even take a boat ride from Gisenyi (on Lake Kivu) to Kibuye (on Lake Kivu)...seeing the beautiful scenary as you go.

Don't mean to push this on you, so apologies if it seems that way. But seriously do consider how many places you are going to in 3 weeks (4 countries!) and count up how much time out of those 3 weeks you will spend on planes and in vehicles (opposed to seeing and doing what you've travelled all the way to Africa to do). In my quick count it looks like you're going to spend considerable parts of 10 out of your 20 days in-transit.

Just my 2 cents.

This is great feedback, and exactly what we need to fine tune our plans. I am hearing the 'chorus' that we haven't alot enough travel time for the distances involved, so that triggers a question.

Does it make more sense (and possibly save $$) to start the Tanzania trip in Tarangire? I'm suggesting taking the flight from Kigali to Arusha, then a relatively short drive to Tarangire. Then the next travel segment is driving from Tarangire to Ngorongoro, then driving Ngorongoro to Serengeti and then the final travel segment to fly from Serengeti to Masai Mara?

Does that have better flow? Just a thought.
Thanks
T

Starting in Tanzania makes sense. Don't know about a Serengeti-Mara direct flight. You might have to go through Arusha to Nairobi. I'll let the airplane experts address that one and will be very interested in their response.

If you just did Rwanda and not Uganda, what you'd be giving up is QE. Of course you'd also be giving up Bwindi, but that's gorillas, which you'd have in PNV. I really liked QE, especially the Kazinga Channel. Of all the boat trips in Africa, this is one of the most action packed, second only to Chobe in my experience. It offers you the chance to see chimps in the wild, which you can't do elsewhere on your trip. QE also has the beautiful Ugandan kob and Giant Forest Hog. Elephant action is also outstanding. And of course there's the bat cave if that's of interest. I would not count on QE to produce views of tree climbing lions.

As to the difficulty of the treks, it is a toss up between Uganda and Rwanda. Just depends on where the gorillas are. But the humidity was far worse in Bwindi than PNV and that made Bwindi treks more difficult for me during our summer months.

You could also look at nixing Uganda as a trade-off for more days in the Serengeti. What you would give up in QE, while not duplicated in the Serengeti, would allow you more days in this wildlife-rich region. It would probably offer a cost savings as well, and provide more relaxation.

Re: Gorilla's Nest--I loved its location and the resident flock of crowned crane. The rooms were a little chilly and the food was good. It is where I would stay again, unless the Governor's accommodations were the same price as Gorilla's Nest, which I don't believe is the case.

You could take the flight from Kigali to Kili (if you're there the right day), then drive to Tarangire. You could then drive to the Crater and onto the Serengeti and then the Mara (I think to fly you'd have to charter a plane but others would know better). From the Mara you could fly back to Nairobi...don't drive.

Alternatively, you could fly from Kigali to Nairobi (if the Kili flight doesn't work) Nairobi to the Mara, drive to the Serengeti, the Crater, Tarangire and then Kili (and fly home from there).

Or...you could do ONLY a private driving safari in Tanzania. You could fly from Kigali to Nairobi, Nairobi to the Mara and back to Nairobi, Nairobi to Kili...drive to Tarangire, the Crater, end in the Serengeti and then fly from the Serengeti to Arusha (which I think is possible, but again don't know for certain) and then fly home from Kili.

Sounds like a fantastic trip. Both Chimp and Gorilla tracking are on my list for my next trip to Africa. Please post some results when you return.

You might be trying to fit too much in with the driving from place to place. I flew from location to location, so I don't know, but as mentioned by another writer, I'd re-check the distances/driving time.

I have been to east Africa and southern Africa. I spent a month on safari in July of 2003. I stayed at some fantastic places, and while not as luxurious as some of the other locations I visited, Grumeti River Camp was one of my all time favorites. I understand the comment about not moving around too much, but if you want to see the wildebeast migration, my suggestion is NOT to stay in one place since the migration is unpredictable. I stayed a couple nights each at Bateleurs Camp in the Massai Mara, and Klein's Camp and Grumeti River Camp in the Serengeti, and Grumeti is where I saw the migration. It was incredible. The staff and accomodations at Grumeti are also wonderful. The perfect combination of comfort and wilderness. And the food was fantastic. I definitely would not eliminate this from your itinerary. In fact, I'd stay an extra night if you could. Make sure you take malaria vaccine before you go. It isn't necessary for most of your trip, but in this region it is a must.

In the Ngorongoro Crater I stayed at the Ngorongoro Crater Lodge and thought is was too over the top. I'm glad you've chosen another location. A tip about the Crater location--it will be much colder during the early morning and the evening than you think. Take along some long underwear.

Please post results about Jacana and Gorilla Forest Camp when you return. I've read wonderful things about both locations and had planned to include them in my next trip (likely 2008).

Have a great trip. It will be the experience of a lifetime.