luv2globetrot

Hello all you Africa experts

I've been lurking in the Africa forum for over 6 months now in preparation for my 40th birthday celebration trip in 2008.
I feel like I know so many of you, so I feel the need to introduce myself.

My name is Lisa (I'll turn 40 in June) and my husband and I will be taking our first trip to Africa in September/October. The dates are not quite confirmed yet, due to our pesky jobs. But we should have the dates finalized for our vacation in the next few weeks.
That is why I waited until now to speak up. I didn't really want to start asking questions without having more info firmed up.
I have found that you can find the answers to almost any question imaginable by doing a little footwork here, so I do feel like I've learned a lot.
But, still, I'd love to hear anything any of you Africaphiles can tell me And I'm sure there's so much more to learn.

I have, of course, been keeping up with the East Africa Trip Index...thank you Lynda S for that wealth of information!
And to all who give us their trip reports!

Background so far:

We want to go to Kenya, Tanzania and Rwanda (for gorilla trekking).
We will be using FF miles (Business Class, Skyteam, from either BOS or JFK to NBO or JRO)
I have an itinerary in mind (nothing firmed up just yet as I'm sure it will be tweaked based on advice from you guys).
I have contacted a number of companies and have narrowed it down to Roy's, Africa Serendipity, and Eastern & Southern, with a strong leaning toward Roy's due to the communications I've had so far with them and their price.

These are the parks we are most interested in (not in any specific order):
Tarangire
Ngoronggoro
Masai Mara (for the migration)
Samburu
and also the gorilla trekking in Rwanda

We want a private safari to the extent possible, but as of now, our proposed itinerary has us flying to Samburu and the Mara, which seems like that means we will be with a group for the game drives. I haven't inquired specifically to find out if private drives are possible if you fly into a camp (at an extra charge, maybe?).

Our most desired sightings are the CATS...cats, cats and more cats!! Cheetahs, in particular, but any cats would send me over the moon!
We, of course, would be thrilled with any sightings of animals in their natural habitat.
We live in New Hampshire and even though we see them quite frequently, we still get so excited to see deer in our backyard!! I can only imagine the excitement of seeing those majestic African animals!!
We'd like to stay in tented camps as much as possible but don't mind lodges. From the reviews I've seen so far, I think most of the accommodations listed in this itinerary sound like something we'd be pleased with.

Here is the proposed itinerary:

Day 1 - Dept US BOS - AMS - JRO
Day 2 - Arrive JRO 8:20pm. Dinner and overnight at Kia Lodge or Karama Lodge
Day 3 - Drive to Tarangire with picnic lunches. Dinner and overnight at Kikoti Tented Camp (other options: Tarangire Swala Camp or Olivers Camp)
Day 4 - Tarangire. Lunch, dinner and overnight at Kikoti Tented Camp (other options: Tarangire Swala Camp or Olivers Camp)
Day 5 - Drive to Ngorongoro with picnic lunches. Afternoon Olmoti Crater trek with guide or Circle Hike around Ngorongoro Crater rim. Dinner and overnight at Ngorongoro Serena Lodge
Day 6 - Morning Crater tour at Ngorongoro.Lunch. Afternoon visit Maasai Village. Dinner and overnight at Ngorongoro Serena Lodge
Day 7 - Drive via Arusha to Kilimanjaro for your 1600 flight to Kigali arriving 1700. Dinner and overnight at Kigali Serena Hotel
Day 8 - Gorilla Trek in Rwanda with picnic lunches. Dinner and overnight at Virunga Mountain Lodge
Day 9 - Morning in Kigali visiting Genocide Memorial. Board 1400 flight to Nairobi arriving at 1620.
Transfer to The Intercontinental Hotel for overnight stay (BB)
Day 10 - After breakfast drive to Wilson Airport for your flight to Samburu. Lunch, dinner and overnight at Larsens Camp (other option: Joys Camp)
Day 11 - Samburu. Lunch, dinner and overnight at Larsens Camp (or Joys Camp)
Day 12 - Samburu. Lunch, dinner and overnight at Larsens Camp (or Joys Camp)
Day 13 - fly Samburu to Masai Mara. Lunch, dinner and overnight at Mara Sarova Camp (other option: Saruni Camp)
Day 14 - Mara. Lunch, dinner and overnight at Mara Sarova Camp (or Saruni Camp)
Day 15 - Mara. Lunch, dinner and overnight at Mara Sarova Camp (or Saruni Camp)
Day 16 - Mara. Lunch, dinner and overnight at Mara Sarova Camp (or Saruni Camp)
Day 17 - Afternoon flight to NBO for 2215pm flight back to US (NBO - AMS - BOS)
Day 18 - Arrive US


Some of the issues I'm grappling with:

First of all, we are at our maximum with 18 days and are wondering if it might be better to shorten it up a bit and maybe leave out Samburu (also saves money). This being our first trip to Africa, I wonder if that might be too much game driving, although I can't imagine there is such a thing.
But I'm the trip planner (hubby likes it that way) and I wonder if maybe he wouldn't be quite as thrilled as I know I will be.

Next is cost. Roy's quoted me US$7035 per person (based on private safari in Tanzania and Rwanda; shared game drives in Samburu and Mara)
I definitely want to keep it at or under $15K total.

The next big obstacle will be getting FF miles in business class. That is an absolute priority as we have been saving our miles with the specific intent of going to Africa in business class.
My ideal departure date is Sept 16, 2008 and returning on October 3. However these dates are very flexible with about a 2 week window on either side, i.e. departing anytime after September 1, 2008 and then returning 18 days later. Or even going in October, but I would like to have the trip completed before the end of October.

The "331 days out" day from Sept 16 is about a week away so I'm chomping at the bit to start calling Delta. Of course, I have to coordinate the timing of this with bidding our leave from work. We have to wait until it's our turn to bid (it's a seniority thing) before I know exactly what dates we'll have for vacation.

Does anyone have any input on what kind of service we can expect in business class on KLM or Air France from New York to NBO or JRO? We'd hate to be disappointed and get in the plane and find out the seats don't recline a good deal or there are no footrests (since comfort is the main goal) or even that there's no on-demand video at each seat, etc.
I know there are no guarantees, but does anyone have experience with either of these airlines and have a recommendation of one over the other.

Of course, I know it may just come down to the whatever airline has the seats available for FF miles, then that's who we go with. But I'd love to hear what you think.

So, sorry to have rambled on so much. Guess that's what happens when you lurk for so long without posting

But I'd love to hear any opinions on:
--our itinerary (how does the order of parks look, enough time at each?)
--the cost
--the business class for KLM or Air France
--any and all other tips/advice

Since this is my first post for this trip, I'm sure I will have lots more questions.
Thanks for bearing with me, if you've indeed gotten this far

Happy, safe travels to all
Lisa

umngmc

Hi Lisa

I can't help you with alot of your questions, but I can help you with some......

My wife and I just came back from Kenya/Tanzania 2 weeks ago. We did the Northern Tanzania Safari Circuit of Tarangire/Ngorongoro/Serengeti for 5 days. We did not venture into Kenya as I heard from a local friend that the two countries are very similar in their safaris. The only difference is that you can go off-roading int he Kenyan parks and you have to stay on the trails in the Tanzanian parks. We'll hopefully head back one day to see Rwanada and Uganda!

Since I never went to Sambaru, I can't say much for that park, but a full day at Tarangire is more than enough. We only did one crater drive at Ngorongoro, but I would have liked another. There are no cats in Tarangire, but we were within 15 feet of a lion in Ngorongoro and were also fairly close to some cheetahs. There were ALOT of lions in the Serengeti, and I would expect the same in the Masai Mara. We also saw a leopard in a tree and a another one eating some fresh catch!

For your interest, we also used Roy Safari's and found them very good for the safari. Prices were definitely reasonable and was well planned. Everything was booked the way it was presented on the itinerary, no hidden surprises. The vehicles were spacious, updated and clean. There were 2 other people on the trip with us, and we had the whole jeep to ourselves. I think if it was just my wife and I on the trip, it would have just been the two of us in the Land Cruiser. But we saved a ton of money with our friends joining us for the trip.

The main purpose of our trip was to climb Kilimanjaro and we tacked the safari on afterwards. I thought the 5 days was just enough time to see enough game. After awhile, I couldn't be bothered seeing more zebras, wildebeests, or gazelles. But the cats always got my blood rushing!!

It sounds like a great trip you have planned.... you won't be disappointed with Roys.

Happy travels!!

Otis72

We didn't have miles to use, so coach was the only option for our first trip to East Africa January 2007 (standard Northern Circuit safari, 9 days on the ground). The planes (KLM) were packed and space was limited. But when we stepped out of the door and stood on top of the boarding stairs at JRO, the discomfort was old news. As for the ride home, the hard part was leaving Africa; the ride in coach back to the US was just a detail.

We are returning next year in August - Tarangire, Ngorongoro, Samburu (2 days each), and then the Mara (4 days). Do we wish we had Business Class seats? - SURE. Will it detract from our trip to come and go via steearage? - Not a bit.

Don't sweat the small stuff. You have the opportunity to spend 15 days on the ground - the getting there and coming back are inconsequential in the end. Focus on what happens after you deplane and experience the marvels of arrival at JRO...

As for your arrangements - We were just two on our first trip, but did a private safari with Good Earth in TZ. Wouldn't do it any other way. Our trip next year in August is both TZ and Kenya, at high season. We are four (two couples) and have arranged a private safari through Good Earth in TZ, and in Kenya with SafariLine (a partner with Good Earth). I'm not sure we (just the two of us) could afford a private safari in Kenya, so having another couple is making a big difference.

You can work with operators that tell you what they can't do, or you can find one that gives you what you want. Its costing you a lot of money any way you do it, so why not get the most out of your trip?!

Have a great time, you will be blowed away by Africa. And driven to return.

Jim

atravelynn

You've got a wonderful trip!

I've stayed 3 nights in Tarangire and enjoyed it, so I think 2 is good. I would not want only 1 night in your itinerary. That view differs from umngmc. I've seen lions and a leopard in Tarangire.

For Rwanda, it appears you will be leaving very early, like 4:15 am, the morning of Day 8 and driving to Volcanoes Nat'l Park to do your gorilla visit. Just so you are aware of that.

If you are flying to/from Rwanda and making the 2 hour drive from Kigali to the gorillas & back, it seems like a second gorilla visit would be a good idea. Otherwise it is a lot of transport time and money for one big day. If you did add another gorilla visit, I would take the day from Samburu.

The cost of your trip would increase a lot, though. For expense reasons or if you really only want to trek up the mountain once, it makes sense for just 1 gorilla visit.

Threee nights in Samburu is one more than most itineraries have. I want to stay 3-5 nights in Samburu when I go back, so I think it is a nice touch. If you needed to cut something, though, you could take one day out of Samburu.

You asked about cutting it out entirely. There are unique species here that you will not see in your other stops: Grevy Zebra, Beisa Oryx, Reticulated Giraffe, Somali Ostrich, Gerenuk antelope. So if possible, I'd keep it.

Four nights in the Mara is a good plan. I agree with your later flight out of the Mara at the end to maximize your time there. An earlier flight works well, though, if you want to go shopping at the end of the trip.

You can get a private vehicle when you fly into parks. Roy's or the other agents can cost that for you.

Happy Birthday!

Patty

Welcome, Lisa (even though you've been a lurker for a while)!

First of all, the flights - it looks like KL will be operating the 772 between AMS and JRO and 744 between AMS and NBO next year. The 772 has AVOD (audio video on demand) with a good selection of entertainment. The seats are the lie-flat at an angle type (as opposed to horizontal to the floor) so there's a tendency to have that sliding down effect. I find what works for me is to fully extend the seat, then back it up a little bit until I find a comfy position where I don't feel like I'm sliding. The pitch is about 60" and the seat backs recline down (they're not the hard shell type) with a small privacy screen you can pull up. I haven't flown on the 744, but new seats (same slippery slope kind as on the 772) are currently being installed in these aircraft as well as adding AVOD in business. I'm guessing by the time you fly all of these will be converted. I usually find the service on KL to be pretty good.

When you mention AF, I assume you mean for your transatlantic flights because they don't serve JRO or NBO? Depending on the flight you chose, the AF JFK-CDG flights are operated by either 332, 772, 773, or 744 (I've flown the latter 3) and BOS-CDG is 744 in Sep next year. Seat conversion on all of these aircraft have now been completed with lie-flat at an angle seats and AVOD. The difference is these are hard shells with the seat extending forward giving you a little more privacy and the video screens are located on the seatback in front of you rather than in the armrest (except for bulkhead rows, I think). You still have the sliding down problem so have to play around with it to find a good position. Pitch is also around 60". Also AF doesn't load nearly as many movies as KL and only the movies are on demand whereas the documentaries and TV shows are on a loop, but I understand they're supposed to be improving their programming. The service on AF is OK. It's not as attentive as on most other carriers in business. Most of the FAs tend to disappear after the meal service but they do set up a self serve bar by the galley.

You can check KL and AF availability yourself on the NW Japan site http://tinyurl.com/33gaju

This site is intended for NW Worldperks members but I've found the AF availability that it displays matches what's available to DL Skymiles members. I've also found the KL AMS-Africa availability to match what's available to Skymiles members but have sometimes found a KL transatlantic flight which shows availability on the NW site but was not available to DL. Overall though, it's a very good tool and is close enough that it's worth playing around with before calling DL. The site works best if you search by segment i.e. AMS-JRO, rather than JFK-JRO. You can also search beyond 331 days on this site as Worldperks allows their members to book awards starting 340(?) days. And keep in mind that 331 days is just the first day that you can make a Skymiles award reservation but that doesn't mean that award inventory has been loaded on any given flight. So if at first you don't succeed, don't give up as availability changes all of the time. As a matter of fact I just changed 2 of my flights for our trip in Jan today so that we could go one day earlier. I've booked 5 sets of business class awards to Africa using Skymiles and only once have I done the 331 day thing.

Don't forget that in addition to the KL option, you have 2 more options to NBO with Skyteam. DL will operate their own flight starting in June next year. The flight will route JFK-DKR-NBO and operate 4 times weekly outbound on Mo/We/Fr/Sa and return on Tu/Th/Sa/Su. They will use their 763 on this route. Two-thirds of these are retrofitted with AVOD and I expect by the time you fly, all will be completed. The seats are not flat but more cradle type with what I'd estimate to be 160 degree recline and about 60" pitch. I personally find these to be more comfortable than lie-flat at an angle seats. The only downside is the seats aren't very wide. Service is usually very attentive. You can check availability on delta.com.

The second option is KQ (Kenya Airways) to NBO from LHR, AMS or CDG. LHR and AMS flights operate daily and CDG is We/Fr/Su southbound and Tu/Th/Sa northbound. LHR and AMS is operated with 772 and CDG with 763. KQ is the only carrier of the 4 I haven't flown in business (but I have 4 segments booked for next year). From what I understand, all seats are fully flat (not angled) but the 772 are a newer style (hard shell) than the 763. I'm not sure what type of entertainment system they have. There's no way to check KQ availability online that I know of, but they seem to have excellent availability (at least as of right now) as every flight I've asked for has been available.

As you can see, you have quite a few options to get there but only the KL flight can get you into JRO so I'd try for that first. Even though KQ codeshares on the Precision Air flight between NBO and JRO, I don't believe that's an option for Skymiles redemption. DL and KQ can get you as close as NBO but you'd have to buy a separate ticket to JRO.

You can find the schedules for all of the above flights on skyteam.com and seatmaps for all except KQ aircraft are available on seatguru.com. If you want to see what the cabins/seats look like go to the airliners.net photo search page http://www.airliners.net/search/? and select the aircraft, airline and Cabin Views under category. I think they have pics of everything except the KQ 772.

Whew! That's more than I intended to write. I'll post my thoughts on the itinerary tomorrow.

Patty

One more thing to keep in mind is that if you have any transatlantic segments on NW or CO, this will cost you additional mileage over the 120,000 mile requirement for a business class award, so try to keep your over water segments on KL, AF or DL (BOS-AMS for example is operated by NW).

Treepol

Hello Lisa,

sounds like a wonderful trip. I would stay with 2 nights in Tarangire - I enjoyed this park on my 2005 safari and am allowing 2 nights here next year in order to explore further. Its a great elephant park and in October there were good bird sightings.

I also would recommend Samburu for the rarer species that Atravelynn mentions and also I remember Samburu as a drier environment and a good contrast to the plains habitats of Mara and Serengeti. If you are having 3 nights you might like to consider adding a day trip to Shaba if you end up staying all 3 nights at Larsen's rather than Joy's camp.

Can you write a bit more about the Circle Hike around the Crater - like where does it leave from and is a guide needed?

Happy travels,


Pol.

sandi

Nice itinerary, smooth routing, good price.

If you want to keep the price under $15K, then pass on the upgraded camps being offered (Swala or Olivers @ Tarangire; Joy's @ Shaba or Saruni @ Masai Mara)... they're way more expensive than those shown.

If you want private vehicles at Samburu/Larsen's or Masai Mara/Sarova expect to pay $300-$500/day for the vehicle/guide, if available.

Too much safari? For some yes, for others, absolutely not. Remember, you are under no obligation to go out on every game drive. Often it's very nice to have a day of doing nothing... late wake-up, leisurely meals, enjoying Africa from the deck of your tent, doing a bush walk or visiting a market or school. This is especially easy during the Tanzania portion, where you can schedule your days with your private guide. If you prefer not to go out at 6am, arrange to go out at 8:30-9am till noon. Or one day do nothing, then next day do a full-day. The only days you have to keep to a schedule is when moving from one park to another, i.e., from Tarangire to Ngorongoro as the guide knows how long the trip and to have you checked in on time.

The Crater Rim Walk is done from the Serena and Crater Lodge, with a naturalist discussing the varied plant life and their uses. It's leisurely, done after lunch for about 1.5-2/hrs. If staying at the Sopa, the Olmoti Crater Trek is recommended. Just easier to do these activities from the lodge closest.

While Tarangire and Samburu both offer the elephant experience, Samburu also has species not found elsewhere... I wouldn't cancel this, but would shorten by a day. You arrive late-morning and have more than sufficient time with a 2/nt stay. Opting to visit Shaba/Joy's camp on the 3rd day in the area will add to your costs - Joy's is expensive during this time and the transfer to the camp; oh, also the flight cost from Shaba is a bit higher than flying from Samburu to the Masai Mara.

Note: On last day by taking the late flight from the Mara, many of the camps/lodges have added a "late departure" surcharge and there's the extra lunch you pay for. It's nice to depart on the morning (11am) flight and have the afternoon to visit Karen Blixen Museum, Giraffe Center, Kazuri Beads or Utamudani Crafts and do last minute shopping (rather than dragging all your purchases throughout the trip); have dinner* in NBO (Carnivore or Tamarind) before transfer to JKIA for homebound flight.

*if you adopt ($50) one of the ellees at Daphne Sheldrick Elephant Orphanage, you can visit your baby/put to sleep at 4:45pm and meet the handlers (then go for dinner). See the Sheldrick site for more info.

kenyatraveler

Just got back from Kenya (12 days - 5 parks) and your schedule depends on what you want, not just listed ones. Take the advice on this post and send your preferences to a few Kenyan opertors who you have researched. In most cases, it will be a private safari, since no-one else has your exact schedule. I spoke with people using the suggested posts on this site and have heard no complaints from any of them. We used Sardius Tours and safaris and were very pleased with them. Most operators do their part of the trip with their driver/guides and work with associates in the other countries. But,as I said before send out your proposed schedule to a few operators you have researched on this site, google them and ask (and follow up with references/professional affiliations). Once narrowed down, compare based on how well it matches your needs, quality of references, price, etc.

As for air travel from JFK, we used American/british Air. At hte beginning we were able only to get coach, and then upgrade to business class the last week before departure (they like to hold the better seats until they know they cannot book them. American had the usual large fold back seats which were ok, but BA has the "club seats whichalternate front facing and rear facing and fold all the way down into a bed (fantastic for sleeping on the eight hour flight). Hope this helps.

atravelynn

Sandi, I never knew about a late departure surcharge from the Mara. I figured you have to pay for that extra last lunch. That's some good info. Once you get the specifics, you can find out how much you are willing to pay for those additional final hours in the Mara.

sandi

Lynn - This surcharge only started with the '08 season. Some camps, especially the small ones, charge as they have to hold back a vehicle (from game drives for other guests) to do this transfer. The charge will be vary, often built into the price. Can be a flat fee or 25% of daily rate, plus a daily park fee.

pantelia

bookmarking

atravelynn

The Mara park fee too. All that is worth considering in which flight to take.

There were resident dik diks at Mara Sarova when a co-worker went in Sept. Apparently they were rather loud in their communications to each other. Apparently, some guests were even disturbed by them. I see it as a plus for Sarova.

luv2globetrot

WOW!! This forum ROCKS!!!
You guys are amazing!!!

I'm amazed at these wonderful responses! I knew I could count on you guys for expert advice!
I'm always amazed at how many people will take time out of their busy lives to write with such detailed advice.

Thank you all so much!

I'm at work on a break and have been dying to get back here and see what you've said!!

I still haven't even gotten thru all of them, but at least wanted to drop a line real quick to say thank you. I'll have to go back to work before reading thru this wealth of information. But I see what I'll be doing for the rest of my day

Thanks again!

luv2globetrot

umngmc,
Thanks for the vote of confidence in Roy's. That makes me feel good about my choice. I know they get lots of good reviews here.
Hope you had a great trip

Otis72,
I know what you're saying about the business class thing. But when you've been saving the miles for a year or two with this intent in mind, it's hard not to have your heart set on it. But I definitely agree with you that it all won't matter once we step foot in Africa!!!
Thanks

atravelynn,
Thanks for the great ideas. You've given me lots to think about. Especially the Rwanda portion.
I must admit that I am still unclear as to the locations of the hotels in Rwanda in relation to the park where you do the trekking.
So, the drive from Kigali to the gorillas is 2 hours?
The itinerary has us staying at Virunga Lodge after seeing the gorillas. How far is that from them?
Maybe I should inquire if it's possible for us to stay at a hotel closer to the park the night before our trek?
Do you have suggestions on a hotel?
Believe me, I have agonized over whether or not to add another trek. But the cost is just too prohibitive. I am very nervous about spending all that time and money and doing just one gorilla trek...what if the worst case scenario happens and we don't see any????
So, that is still a major variable. But, because of cost, we will most likely leave it at one.
I understand about the unique species at Samburu. That is what intrigued me about it so much. The goal is to keep it, but I just wanted to know people's opinions on what to cut out if it became necessary for us to cut the trip a bit. And since it is a bit out of the way, that's the one I assumed might get the ax. But, again, I'm definitely going to try to keep it in!
I will definitely be contacting Roy's about the cost of the private safari.
Thanks for all your great help!


Patty,
WOW!! Thanks so much for all your info! That should really help. I haven't had a chance to check out that website yet, but will get to it ASAP!
As for the AF thing, I saw it on orbitz, but went back and notice now that it does say "operated by Kenya Airways", which I still thought meant that we could use our miles thru AF. Is this not correct?
However, I'm very hopeful after reading the info you gave me about KLM. So, they would be our first choice. I just want to know all my options to increase our chances of getting the seats.
We used FF miles in business class on Korean Air to New Zealand last year and they had those "lie flat at an angle seats". We thought those were great!! So, we'd be thrilled with those.
But, what a wealth of information you provided!!! Thanks!
I've noticed that you often give this kind of info on this forum, but I've never actually seen how it is that you know all this. You're in the biz, I take it? What an invaluable resource!!!!!
And I can't wait to check out those other sites and see what the cabins look like. That's perfect! Will it really be accurate?
Thanks for that last little tip about the segments on NW or CO costing more miles. But I just don't see how they can do that when they're all partners. I thought that was the whole idea.
Anyway, can't say thank enough

Treepol, sandi, kenyatraveler,
I've got to get back to work, but thanks so much for the responses and I'll be back in a few hours

THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE!
Lisa

OnlyMeOirish

Hi Lisa,
Welcome to posting!
I'm a bit late adding my 2c but thought I'd jump in anyways

Hubby and I did Kenya (Mara and Nakuru) and Rwanda (Gorillas) last year. We only had 10 days to do it and like you, cost was a factor. We did just one Gorilla Treck and because of delayed and thus missed flights we missed the Genocide Memorial. I know that cost is an issue BUT, and I hate saying this as I know you ave more or less ruled it out - just consider doing another Gorilla Treck. It is the one thing I REALLY wish we did. We spent all that time and money getting to Rwanda and in the whole scheme of things that extra treck would have not cost us much more. I would go so far as to say to cut back on something else to do it (although I'm not sure what?). That one Gorilla Treck we did is the absolute highlight of our entire trip if not the highlight of ALL our trips.

If you do still go with just one treck though don't be too concerned about not seeing the Gorillas. Of all the posts on here I have never heard of anyone not seeing them - apparently it is VERY rare.
Re the hotel, there is a closer hotel to the Gorillas called Gorillas Nest. This is where we stayed. It is very basic and nothing like Virunga but it is quite a bit closer to the Gorillas and about half the price or a bit less. There is a new Hotel that was due to open around now but I can't remember the name of it but I think it was closer than Virunga too - someone on here might be able to give you more details on it.

Re Samburu, if it were me I would keep it in - we didn't make it there last time but it's on my 'wish list'.

Also, re flying out of the Mara - Sandi mentioned adopting an Elephant in thae sheldrick Orphanage - we did thes and it was the second highlight of our trip - totally amazing being able to interact with those babies. It is something you should consider as it might help cut down on cost and also give you an up close and personal experience. There are also other things to do in Nairobi that you could do. If it were me, I would visit the babies

Imelda

PS, No matter what you decide you will have an amazing time!

Lynneb

You have a great trip planned!
Regarding Rwanda, I agree with a couple of other posters that you might not have quite enough time for the gorillas.
I stayed at the virunga lodge (beautiful). It's around 40 mins from the camp headquarters and we didn't find that an issue but we were there for 3 nights so we were more relaxed. It's a lovely setting to relax in.
If you can fit it in, I thoroughly recommend 2 gorilla treks.
There is another lodge just opened nearer the park hq but I don't know the name either!

luv2globetrot

So much to think about! But that's what's so great about this forum. You've all provided me with such helpful information and some great ideas!

sandi,
Appreciate your expert input!
Seeing how much a private vehicle would be, I'd say we'd have to rule that out. It's just that according to this itinerary, we do Tanzania (and private drives) first then Kenya last. I'm afraid we'd be so spoiled that it might seem a bit disappointing to have to share a vehicle. Everyone seems to RAVE about going private. And I can imagine that we would love the freedom of having it just be us.
I thought about driving for the entire trip, but realize that that significantly adds to the time between parks and then we'd have to cut something out...Samburu, because it's most out of the way, I guess.

So, if you had to choose (keeping the trip the same length) would you leave it as, flying into the Kenya parks and having a shared vehicle, or take out Samburu completely and do a completely private safari driving between all parks?

sandi, you convinced me we will not have "too much safari". Thanks for pointing out that there are options, but I bet once we're there we won't be able to get enough of the game drives
Also, thanks for the info about the "late departure" charge. I'll have to inquire as to whether this was factored into the price quoted.
But, I am interested in the idea of maybe leaving earlier and spending time in NBO.
And the Elephant orphanage sounds like something we'd LOVE!....More to contemplate
Thanks so much, sandi!


kenyatraveler,
Thanks for the tips but we are beholden to Delta and their partners for our Skymiles so AA and BA aren't really an option.
And I have sent my proposed itinerary to a few different companies and have it narrowed down (and darn near decided)...maybe you missed that part of my long, rambling original post
Appreciate the input.


OnlyMeOrnish,
Your trip report was one of the catalysts of us wanting to do the gorilla trek in the first place!!!!
After I read about your experience I just knew we HAD to do that! When we first started thinking about Africa, Rwanda and trekking with gorillas wasn't even on our radar. Now, it's an absolute MUST DO!!
If I remember correctly, you did all the planning on your own??!! I looked into that and even found a couple of companies for the trek (R&N Explorer for one) but it almost seems like it might be too much work for me (the trip planner) and the cost quoted from Roy's seemed like it might be pretty comparable to what I could get on my own. I kind of got a bit lazy and thought it might just be better to have it all included. It all seems very overwhelming trying to coordinate all the logistics.
Anyway, you sure do give a pretty good argument for doing 2 treks. I'll be talking that over with hubby tonight
If we did decided to just go for it (what's money anyway?) I think we'd cut out a day from Samburu. That seems to be the general consensus on the best place to cut a day.
Lots to think about!!!!!
Geesh, I don't guess I'll be sleeping much til this whole trip is all firmed up
But that's part of the fun, right?
Also, I'm nearly sold on the Elephant orphanage!
Thanks so much for your advice!


Lynneb,
Thanks for the info on the Virunga Lodge. I'll look into trying to stay there the night before the trek, also. 40 minutes seems like a reasonable commute. Much better than Kigali Lodge which sounds like it's 2 hours away.
You guys definitely have me thinking about 2 treks!
Did you not find it to be too tiring...or does the adrenaline rush from seeing the gorillas make that a complete non-issue!!??????
Thanks, again


More, later.........
Lisa

Patty

Lisa,

You could investigate the cost of having your tour operator provide a private vehicle in Samburu and the Mara and compare that with the cost of paying for a private camp vehicle. If you decide to work with Roys, I believe their partner operator in Kenya is WildTrek so in this case, it would be WildTrek vehicle. You'll end up having two different guides/vehicles and will be paying for them to travel from Nairobi and back, but it's possible that it may work out to be less than a private camp vehicle. Check and compare. You could also consider using a shared vehicle at one camp and only getting a private vehicle for the other if that's more affordable. In this case, I'd probably opt for a private vehicle in the Mara. I agree with others that if you end up having to cut a night somewhere, Samburu seems the best place.

Back to the flights, KQ is now part of Skyteam (as of Sep) so you can use your DL miles to book KQ flights directly. You don't need to book them as AF codeshare (which you can't anyway). So your 3 options with Skyteam to East Africa are KL, KQ or DL metal with KL being the only one operating into JRO. You can use any Skyteam carrier to get across the pond to connect but CO considers their international BusinessFirst product to be "first class" so requires additional mileage and NW, well I have no idea why NW wants more miles for their business class product. Just because they can? But you can have domestic segments on CO or NW and that won't cost more miles.

You can also waitlist any DL operated flights (up to 4 alternatives per itinerary, I think) and as long as your original and destination remain the same, there's no change fee if your waitlisted flight(s) clears. Keep checking availability yourself too as sometimes waitlists don't automatically clear. And if there's a schedule down the line (it's almost guaranteed to happen booking this early), you may be able to get reaccommodated on DL operated flights which are more convenient to you even if the flights you want don't have award availability. The general rule of thumb is that it has to be a minimum of a 90 minute schedule change, but I've had agents override award availability for me for schedule changes of between 60-90 minutes. However, they won't be able to override award availability on partner operated flights except maybe in extreme circumstances. Again, in the case of a schedule change, there's no change fee. I usually book whatever itinerary is available at the time, keep monitoring availability and have 2-3 tweaks before we actually fly.

When you look through the photos on airliners.net, check the dates as there might be some photos of older cabin configurations since KL, AF & DL all have had or are currently undergoing refits. If you have a question about a photo, post the link here.

No, I'm not in the biz. These are just things I've picked up from managing the ff accounts and redeeming awards for me and my immediate family over the last umpteen years (and no, I don't do this as a paid service for anyone else ). And since most of what I've been booking for myself the last 3 years are trips to Africa, that's where I'm most up to date.

BTW how easy or difficult was it to book KE to New Zealand? I might do that one of these days but have kind of been waiting to see if any better options become available rather than having to route via ICN.

Good luck with your planning!

Patty

That should be &quot;And if there's a schedule <i>change</i> down the line...&quot;