Londolozi vs. Mala Mala
 

What are all of your opinions on Mala Mala vs. Londolozi? We just returned from Londolozi, and were thrilled at the experience. Is Mala Mala about the same? It looks like it covers much more land area....

buyers remorse?

lands is not everything, while for some it is, I figure that your game drives are around three hoours, which gives you an hour and half outbound ans the same on return, trace a circle around any camp, work out an 11/2 drive and then it becomes apparent that the boundless wilderness is in fact quite meaningless. Particularly in the sabi sand where the entire reserve is so densly populated with lodges, by comparison to say Botswana or Zambia, or Tanzania or.....

For me, M/mala is old school, to formal, wheras londoz had a more relaxed feel, although I'd like to invent a term for their sophistication, "bush wazire"

Could you throw in Elephant Plains as another comparison. Is there a geographic
area Elephant Plains is located in? I know Jscale had high praise for Elephant Plains.

Bush wazire is a good one!

Paloaltotraveler,

I have yet to discover what my opinion is of Londolozi, as I will not be there until next month - but it is looking good so far as I have been waitlisted for Bateleur for over 6 months and have finally received word that we are now in Bateleur.

On MalaMala, I do have an opinion. I am obsessed with gameviewing, and with my limited time in Kenya, Tanzania, Botswana, my best gameviewing by far, has been at MalaMala. I have in the past stayed for relatively long periods of time, and I have been happy to spend most of my time just at MalaMala. I am not saying the accomodation or the food is the best that I have ever experienced, but accomodation and food is definitely not the reason I fly from Australia to Africa! I am really hoping that I am nearly as happy at Londolozi that I am at MalaMala. Also, a large part of the appeal at MM is the knowledge of family history on the big cats - knowing a leopard cub I saw so many years ago being pregnant with her first lot of cubs is very exciting to me. I have heard a lot of people comment on the volume of vehicles in the Sabi Sands, and I do see a little of that at Singita where other lodges have traversing rights - but I like a lot of people out and about finding different sightings, as to me, if handled correctly, you only see other vehicles off and on, most rangers go out of their way to avoid traffic, unless it is at a special sighting. To me staying longer, means that we go to areas in MalaMala that are not frequently used by vehicles because people staying two or three nights usually want to see specific animals, when I stay there longer, I want to see lots of different things, and each time I go, I do see things that I have not seen before!

Kaye

Ditto to Kaye. I have found that game drives can in fact be much longer than three hours. I do get Mkhonzo's point about the formality of Mala Mala, that has put some people off, I am perfectly relaxed there as are the staff with me. One thing I do like as opposed to more relaxed camps, Mombo being a good example, I have never found myself wondering where I should sit or how to proceed with anything at Mala Mala. At some camps I have arrived at breakfast and wondered what the form is, that can be uncomfortable.

Tired accommodations,too formal,old school....These are reasons people don't visit Mala Mala and it's a shame.Once you look past this and actually go you will return many times.

Mala Mala has the highest number of return guests in the SSGR.Do I need to say more?

Hey,Londolozi is a great camp and will satisfy the most discerning traveller but if I want to experience THE best gameviewing that South Africa can offer my vote will have to go to Mala Mala.

Honestly folks, get out a map and study it.
The game viewing at Mala Mala is NO different to Londolozi or anywhere else in tha Sabi Sand.

Kaye: You will enjoy the viewing at Londoz, don't sweat it. As for seeing the same family of cats that you saw on previous visits...well maybe you might miss some of the geneology, however you will learn about other clans of dogs, cats and hyena.

The sand is ONLY 57 000 Ha. In wild life terms and compared to parks in the rest of Africa that is small. Just next door the Kruger is arguably the same size as the country of isreal.

The biome of the sands from the sabi river to the fence in justicia is much the same. There is no sudden emergence of brachystegia woodland or.....
It is all pretty much acacia woodland...my terms might be off a tad, bottom line is this biome hosts the SAME species of game. The same species of GAME attracts the predators, whose numbers and distribution are determined by the densities of prey species & since the vegetation is equitable throughout the sands.....come to any conclusions?:

In addition and further fodder for thought: There are no physical boundaries seperating the various companies, MM. Londo, Nottens, Sabi, Singita and so on. Ever seen an elephant with a MM passport stamp in his travel documents?, ever seen a lion in mal mala eying out an Impala on tthe londoz side, thinking....mmmm I can't tackle that Impala because it is in Londolozi? Cmon folks....lets have some common sense when discussing game viewing in the sands.....

Last comment from me - the existence of so much river frontage is an advantage for Mala Mala during the dry season.

Of course I may be wrong about that.

hey napa, you have a point, however the various lodges in the sands have sucked into the acquifer for the past four decades establishing a healthy network of water points throughout the reserve.
I think that practically every lodge that does not have river views has worked a water point to the front end of their lodge in addition to strategic locations around their properties.

That said, the sand river is a gorgeous piece of geopgraphy that passes through many of the lodge properties in question, undoubtably Mala Mala has more than a fair share of the waterway.

<<The game viewing at Mala Mala is NO different to Londolozi or anywhere else in tha Sabi Sand>>

It would be silly to continue on with a serious discussion with someone who believes this=;

Oh come on safarinut, how can you say that?
obviously you don't believe so?
Please share your insight and motivate why the viewing is different within the sabi sands?

I will agree that how you see the game is diferent, however I battle to understand why the game would difffer.

If you were to argue that the game in the Timbavati was different to the sands, I would say there is room for discussion. The former is dominated by mopani veld. If you were to compare the northern kruger Pafuri area with the southern kruger, Pretoriuskop/Skukuza area I would again agree that the game is different, but to say that any of the lodge properties in the sabi sand has better or worse game viewing is a major statement AND I for one would sincerely like to know why?
Even if you do think it silly to share your opinion.

This should answer any question....regardless of the accommodation...the leopards are literally "dripping from the trees" at Mala Mala..unlike anywhere else.

oooooh another one!!

Nikitripro.....You astound me! Having posted some really informative advise in earlier discussions, you chime in that the leopards are dripping from the trees at MMala, unlike elsewhere....

I trust that that was"a tongue in cheek" comment?

I am waiting for safarinut to embelish on exactly why the game is better at mala mals. Is it because the grass is sweeter? The bush thicker? There are less alien plants? They have no erosion? The water is more abundant, although that can't be true because i read in an earlier post that it rains less there....or something to that effect.

OR is it because they bait to attract predators, or do they hide salt licks in the grass to attract the zebra...

Or is it simply a quirk of nature that the dominant granitic soils dissappear in M/mals being replaced by the basalt soils typical of the more arid areas that attract low density herbivores such as roan, tsessebe & sable??

I just want to know...never to old to learn.

Mkhonzo you have it all wrong.

A few years ago Mala Mala traded some animals for Tsessebe. The Tsessebe were hugely popular with the Lions, and so they have been returning the favor by spending more time on Mala Mala than in other areas.

I wondered, but glad to know there is finally a logical explanation........

Wow - what a discussion. No buyers remorse from us staying at Londolozi. We are returning in 17 months and are bringing my husband's parents with us - deciding to revisit Londolozi or try Mala Mala. Seeing game is much more important than the room. What do you mean by Mala Mala's formality? People put on a coat and tie for dinner? One thing I liked about Londo was anything went - some dressed up for dinner, some didn't even change clothes from the game drives. Also - Mala Mala doesn't allow traversing from other reserves?

Slightly off topic, but we were able to find leopards whenever we wanted to while at Simbambili. We saw 5 different leopards within the first three game drives. It got to the point where we were starting to pass on the leopard sightings in favor of other sightings such as rhinos and cheetah.

The rooms at Simbambili are beautiful...the food is excellent...the service is great...and Jaco is an excellent guide. I have seen the rooms at Mala Mala Ratray's and they honestly make me queasy, and these are supposed to be the best rooms?

I would like to go to Londolozi Tree but not for double the money of Simbambili...or quadruple the price if you pick up Simbambili on www.mtbeds.co.za

rocco,
are you sure those were leopards? they must have been out for the week, (from Mala Mala of course)on an excursion Larson style to look at some tourists in the Northern Sands.

Rocco, what a coincidence you should mention rhinos and cheetah. I was going to post a question to this thread asking if there was a place in Sabi Sands that was best to see those two species.

atravelyn,

I have only been to MalaMala and Singita in the Sabi Sands, but I have never had trouble seeing Rhino, but the last few years, I have had trouble seeing cheetah, usually get one or two sightings at Singita. For the past few visits, have not seen cheetah at MalaMala, though they certainly have sightings there just not when I am there!

I am also going to Londolozi and Lion Sands next month, so shall be interesting to see what I do see - I would love to see more cheetah!

Kaye

Cheetah do not have territories as well defined as lion & leopard, consequently their home range can be massive. It is really pot luck to find them in the sands, they are definitely there, but can be gone in a day. Should a female be in the area with cubs, then your chances are greater for seeing them on a regular basis, as they don't travel as far.

Regarding Rhino, this shouldn't be a challenge at all at any of the sands lodges, they have defined territories and don't venture too far from water. I do know that the section of land where Sabi's Earth Lodge is has an abundance of Rhino and in particular is attractive during the winter months: a combination of pallatable grasses and water points.

Thant said the challenge in SS is finding Black Rhino & for this, quite honestly the tamboti thickets around the sabie river and in particular the lion sands area offers the best chances and those are slim at best.

<< I do know that the section of land where Sabi's Earth Lodge is has an abundance of Rhino >>

Do they literally drip from the trees?

Would you say Earth Lodge has more rhino than say...Londolozi Safai Lodge?
or that your chances of seeing rhino at Earth Lodge is better than any other lodge in the SSGR?

Funny...I thought there is no difference in game viewing at the lodges in the SSGR?

Maybe the grass is sweeter at Earth Lodge:-d :-d

errr drip from the trees? I think not. Abundance yes and in particularly in the winter months....Why, yes beacuse the of the grass and yes beacuse of the favourable water points. Are they more abundant there than elswhere, perhaps not, but then again i did say that they abound throughout the sabi sand.

FYI: The grantic soils of the southern kruger biome, includes the bulk of the Sabi sands supports grasses of an unpalatabel nature. The White Rhino which is a bulk grazer can subsist on the less nutritious grasses such as, panicum, pennistem, urochloa and digiteria where other species cannot, consequently you will find that as a result of the soil, "unsweet" grass and water, Rhino will be in abundance.

So the area around Earth lodge, also known as Lisbon, has both of the above ingrediants and is consequently attractive to white Rhino, it does however have capacity limitations, so and obviously; but I feel i need to spell this out for you safnut, because you have some challenges comprehending biological issues, will not attract all the Rhino from the Sabi Sands.....

As I stated, they can be found throughout the S/sand.

Thanks for the responses and the biology lessons. Looking forward to Kaye's observations.

Rocco - the rooms make you queasy, I can't give you a pass for such a ridiculuos statement. I've felt queasy in rooms before, but usually die to a surfeit of alcohol.

It's clear that you think Simbambili is wonderful, good for you, but the only images I've seen of Rattray's make it look very nice, certainly nothing to lose my lunch over.

Their seems to be a little inverted snobbery on this board about the more luxurious camps, that I simply don't understand. If you can't afford Singita, don't go. if you think it's worth paying more for the game viewing in Botswana over Zambia then do so.

As for Rhino and Cheetah in Sabi Sand, or the only part I know Mala Mala. We have seen Cheetah on roughly half our visits and White Rhino on every visit. Black Rhino is very rare in the area. I don't remember a trip report where someone had seen one there.

Black rhino is tough all over Africa. The only place I have seen them in the daytime is was in Etosha (very close and great photos) and also the Crater (but much futher away). At night, I saw lots around the waterhole at Okakuejo in Etosha and Ongava. I am visiting Hluhluwe and I understand they have an abundance of rhino, both black and white, like the cookie.

Madikwe is supposed to be good for Black's, but considering their shyness it is not unusual to miss them. Now that the part of the Ngorongoro crater where they are to be found is closed off, they will be seen less often there.

White Rhinos may start to get thinner on the ground now that a pride of Lions in Sabi Sand has taken to eating them.

Share the info on the lion pride that snacks on Rhino, what a sighting!

I know that in northern Botswana the lion do pretty well on elephant, but haven't heard of Rhino being taken in the sands, awesome.

And just the heads up for the black Rhino in SA:
Best viewing is in Hluhluwe-Umfolozi complex. Then Madikwe and then the Augrabies Falls National Park.

Napamatt,

Rattray's...is it a house or is it a safari lodge?

http://www.malamala.com/Rattrays.htm

This is not a Simbambili vs. Mala Mala issue, but more of an issue between lodges that seem to match the environment and lodges that do not. Hey, I loved my time at Chichele Presidential Lodge, but I would pick Puku Ridge, its sister tented camp located about one mile away, every time in the future.

Mkhonzo
http://www.malamala.tv/LION_eyref.htm

This link has info on the Eyrefield Pride finishing off an adult Rhino in May of this year, it is believed to have been fighting. Since then they have started to have a go at other Rhinos including this week. See the Sightings Diary for week ended 11/17.

Rocco

You have seen the rooms, or you have seen one picture?

Now you are talking about how the lodge fits into the environment, which until I can actually see the place I reserve judgement on.

I had excellent sightings for black rhino this year during daytime at Palmwag Rhino Camp in Namibia. So if someone's interested in black rhino tracking on foot that's the place to be. And Chris Bakkes, is probably the best guide I've ever met in Namibia.

And in my opinion if I am going on safari it's not about how the camp is gonna to look like, it's about the quality of guiding and the game I am gonna see and if the camp is nice it's just a bonus but not more than that. But I can easily understand that other people have other ideas about that.

Napamatt,

You are right. I dislike the photos of Rattray's. I will reserve ultimate judgment on Rattray's until I get a couple first hand reports from visitors.

Now, what will you think if your fellow visitors to Rattray's decide that they do not want to walk 500 feet back to their lodge but instead engage the use of the Rattray's golf cart? Does the golf cart lessen your opinion of Rattray's any?

Thanks for the Palmwag Rhino Camp hint Johan Belgium. I certainly share your safari and accommodations philosophy.

I imagine if you are older or in poor health the golf cart will be of great value. I for myself would not use it, nor will I use the internet hook up - but I think you would, so what?

My reference was to your original statement, that was unhelpful and ill informed. I dont refer to Simbambili's facilities because I haven't been there and so can't give an informed opinion.

mkhonzo:

<<but I feel i need to spell this out for you safnut, because you have some challenges comprehending biological issues>>

<< The White Rhino which is a bulk grazer can subsist on the less nutritious grasses such as, panicum, pennistem, urochloa and digiteria where other species cannot>>

I confess...They didn't teach me this in med school:-[

Yeah, me neither. They didn't teach this to me in med school. Wait a second, I didn't go to med school!!!! No wonder.
regards - tom