KRNS

I also was on a private safari with my husband and 2 sons so we were all in agreement as to not want to see a kill. (By the way, Good Earth Tours didn't charge extra for a private safari) Had I been with others who wanted to watch I would have closed my eyes, stuck my fingers in my ears and made noise to myself so as not to hear. You know, "La, la, la, la, I can't hear you, la, la la," etc. If I started to sing to cover the sounds, everyone would want to get out of there ASAP rather than hear my awful voice so mission accomplished anyway!LOL Why should I go to a zoo or Disney just because I don't want to see a kill. Some people are too harsh.

erly

I am grateful that I encountered this post.
We do not want to watch the killing, and yes I know it is survival.
I don't watch National Geographic any longer, since it now seems to focus on violence.
We will make this clear before departing on Safari.

napamatt_2

My point about Disney and the Zoo, is that they are sanitized, whereas the bush is not, and I don't go to africa wanting to see a kill, but if one happens in front of me, I expect to be able to see the event unfold in all its drama without someone wanting to move on. The same holds true for spending an hour plus with mating Lions to see the behviour more than once - there are plenty of safari customers (often first timers) who don't want to wait around for a length of time for any reason.

I think it's reasonable to leave after take down and eating has started, but I would want to revisit a large carcass becasue the interactions intra and inter species are likely to be some of the highlights of a safari.

I remember when we watched the Eyrefield Males take down a big buffalo bull, we went back to teh site everyday until there was nothing left, the various interactions were well worth seeing, such as Elephants charging and trumpeting to scatter the Lions from the kill.

As with most things safari, the cure is a private vehicle, which most of the time is pout of the question price wise, unless you can travel with like minded people.

PredatorBiologist

I support seeing the natural world work its magic. Why take sides, the lion make the buffalo a stronger species and the buffalo push the lion to evolve to their most skilled as well, both will live and die within their natural system largely connected to one another. To me this is the essence of coming on safari, to be able to reconnect with a natural world that we have long been separated from, to the point where many are no longer equipped to witness or understand the most natural of events (general statement not pointed at any individuals). In my experience actually seeing such an event evokes deep feelings that really are not predictable based on watching video, it is quite different to be sitting right there – it can bring a profound understanding of just how precious life is and how important it is that the natural cycle of hunter and hunted stay in balance, and it can also be incredibly unnerving to watch a life transpire slowly away as we are uncomfortable with death and suffering as most of us live so far from how it occurs in the wild. This discomfort is good once you force yourself to endure it as it reconnects you to the survival cycle and makes you explore your soul to find your ancient origins when this made perfect sense.

It’s odd that feeding can appear grizzly and people squeamish about that as well simply because the meat is not cooked and prepared as we are accustomed to. This is a window to behavior, ranks, dominance, competition within a species and between species, all of these behaviors go on display. Simply seeing species for the first time is interesting as are some facts that a good guide can share while watching an animal lay around, etc. but these behavioral events are when you can really learn about a species with your own eyes through fascinating observation, thus I would urge anyone to go without preconceived notions and experience whatever nature reveals with your senses at high attention and you might be surprised at how the experience actually plays for you in real life. I was with a group of first time safari goers that witnessed two kills from start to finish and many of the people said it was not at all what they expected and neither were their feelings. Of course each event is different and those feelings can be challenged each time.

A tip if you think this is very distressing is to read up on the process. It seems more people get upset about the feeding going on before death than anything else but there are mountains of evidence that such prey go into shock and are flooded with adrenaline that overwhelms the pain response. People that have survived attacks from lions describe the numbness and cessation of pain as if they are viewing the event from outside of their body. I’ve talked to people in horrific accidents that claim the same, thus most scientific opinion seems to be that we project our emotions into the situation but that is not the reality of how it feels to be the prey.

atravelynn

You did a good job of explaining Predator.

rickmck

Eloquently put, PB...

KayeN

Hi Tom

While I never want to see a kill, I have seen a few. Because I realise I am the one not wanting to witness it, I don't watch though it is hard to ignore the animal screaming.

I would not ask to leave the sighting though I do find it hard to understand the excitement some guests get from seeing a kill. I have asked to leave hyena feeding on a buffalo that was still alive but my two nieces and I were the only ones in the vehicle and they were in total agreement with me and we returned later once the buffalo was dead and then I had no problem with it.



Kind regards

Kaye

Bon_Vivant

Thanks to all of you for your measured and constructive responses. After seeing your initial post, Lynne, I was afraid that I might be triggering the sort of slanging match on a "touchy subject" that seems to be so readily set off on some posts.

My original question was prompted by an uneasy feeling of voyeurism at watching the video but, at the same time, I was fascinated and intrigued by the skill and teamwork of the lions in a common cause.

As some of you may recall, I asked in a previous post what it is that brings you regulars back to Africa time after time, and I was curious as to whether or not this type of event played any part in that, not for the brutality or the "blood sport" aspect of it, but for the closeness to nature and life in the raw that it shows. Having now had the benefit of PB's excellent summation of the issue, I am completely at ease with prospect of encountering this situation on safari if ever I should be so lucky.

Thanks again.

p.s. I was kind of hoping that the buffalo would make it.

KRNS

Since finding this site sometime last Feb. or thereabouts, I've appreciated PB's scientific and kind responses but in the interest of discussion I'd like to continue voicing my opinion of which I admit I am too fond of doing. Having witnessed my first death in 1964 as a student nurse and spending many years working in an intensive care unit before my retirement 1.5 years ago I believe I am equipped to witness and understand this most natural of events but never wished to see the actual accident that caused many of these deaths nor the long struggle with disease many had to endure. I do not mean any insult when I say you do write eloquently about reconnecting to the survival cycle and finding ancient origens but to me these are just fancy phrases. I don't think there is anything "wrong" with those who can watch a kill nor do I feel they need to rationalise this ability. Some of us respond emotionally and others respond rationally. I would like to believe the adenalin rush overwhelms the pain response but the animal's screams tell me otherwise (emotion and/or reason?) Maybe ear plugs and noise canceling earphones should be on the packing list of those of us who can't bear to watch without spoiling the experience for those who can tolerate it but no one could watch such an event with detachment but would hope for a quick and painless demise for the victim.

sunshine007

I'm from Detroit and on Thanksgiving the Detroit Lions game is always televised and was a part of our family tradition. I still try to watch it even though I hate pro football.

I swear to God,I thought that you meant the football game between the (Detroit) Lions and the Buffalo (Bills)since it was posted shortly after Thanksgiving.

I didn't open it for a few days bC of that.

And yes my heart will always be with the Lions -- even the 4 legged variety.

PredatorBiologist

KRNS: no doubt this board is at its best when everyone can express their own opinions or even feelings without the petty ugliness and disputes that creep into too many threads here so I'm glad the discussion on this emotional topic has continued in that way. Good that you have added more thoughts, I think you have great perspective. I would expect in your profession you have seen a lot that many of us could not imagine and I'm sure that experience strongly influences how you feel about this subject.

KRNS

Dear PB,

You are so nice! Thank you for your kind words. You give sincere consideration to everybody and have a lovely way of expressing yourself. May you and yours have a happy and healthy holiday season. Same to all the knowledgeable, helpfull and friendly Fodorites I've come to know by being addicted to this site still even though my trip with its related questions is sadly over.

KRNS

P.S. Thanks for the added humor, Sunshine. A little levity is always a good thing.

amycyma

not having yet gone on my safari, i have no idea how i would respond, but this i do know. i would never attempt to stop another vehicle mate from watching a kill, and if it came down to a vote, i think i would vote for staying even if i needed to keep my ears and eyes closed, as i understand that is what makes going to Africa very special, my dream (soon to come true).
But i do think having read PB's post will help me understand it more, and to take away some of the immediate raw emotion.

atravelynn

From Sunshine's perspective I can give a definitive answer. I am rooting for those poor Lions to win one, even though I am not a football fan.

When I saw a quick lion kill in which the old buffalo did not suffer for more than a minute or two at Duba Plains, another vehicle pulled up after the buffalo had gone done. The occupants quickly decided to leave. My guide and I decided to check if they were vegetarians at dinner. They were not.

PredatorBiologist

KRNS: Thank you for your compliments, they have put a huge smile on my face. I'm especially pleased to gather up your good holiday wishes as we have a baby due at the New Year and happy and healthy is exactly where we want to be. Best holiday wishes to you and yours as well, and to all the other Fodorites and with the New Year may everyone find their way back to Africa soon!

Sunshine: that is indeed a classic take on this thread!

Amycyma: I can't wait to read all about your first safari, no doubt you will find some very special moments as well as catch our addiction.

amycyma

PB
my best wishes for a very happy and healthy baby-

LAleslie

Another baby PB, congrats! Since the last one was named Leo, will this one be called Bill (as in Buffalo Bill)? Watching too many matings on safari? =D>
Loved your very classy post. I've read about the shock/adrenaline and can only hope it's true. I've witnessed a lots of animals (mostly on film) who don't seem to scream and wonder if that's the reason.

atravelynn

Predator, we are all curious about your new addition's name. Please let us know.

sundowner

Congrats, Predator Bill! Do you know if this one will be a girl? My Ashley had her baby on Thursday, Dec 4th. A little boy named Bryce. Or should I say big boy. He was 8lb 4oz and 22.5" long, the 2nd longest baby at that hospital this year and they deliver 900 a month.

Ashley was pregnant when we were in South Africa and Botswana in July so she says Bryce has already been to Africa. Guess how she decorated his room - safari theme it is