Roccco

Just read this in Travel Africa Magazine:

"Looking further ahead, Claridges, www.southernsun.com, a six-star luxury hotel in Cape Town, is planned for mid-2005. Over 80 bedrooms, plus suites, apartments and penthouses, will have a trendy designer feel in the heart of one of the city?s most vibrant districts."

I went to the website listed but did not find any further info on this hotel. Anybody have any further details to share???

Thanks.

ArthurSA

Courtesy of Aardvark (www.aardvark.co.za/search/).

Seems to be not a regular hotel that is planned, but what is called a "sectional title" development, i.e. the apartments are for sale. Unless there will also be regular hotel component: http://www.suntimes.co.za/2003/11/30...yle/life19.asp

But Southern Sun is reported to have pulled out of the management contract, which is I suppose why you couldn't find anything on their website:
http://www.sapoaonline.co.za/news/ar...idArticle=3595

Selwyn_Davidowitz

Roccco,

These six star hotels are all pretty old news in Cape Town already.
Building on the new Claridges has already started in Green Point however I am very suspicious of the so called 6 star tag. Furthermore the area in which the Claridges is being built is DEFINITELY NOT 6 star hotel quality. Just to put you into the picture the original Claridges which was demolished and on which the new 6 star hotel is being built was to put it crassly a place where ladies would hire rooms and ply their sexual trade. The location of the area lends itself to this type of business and it will take many years for it to shake off this image. I do however believe that if you want a city to prosper then one has to do what Claridges are doing however I reckon they are in for a long hard ride in the initial stages of their trading because of the above factor.

To see more go to the very interesting website:

http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=72675

To aggravate the Claridges hotel plan there is another 6 star hotel being planned in the Waterfront which is going to be developed by Sol Kerzner. This falls under the "One and Only" hotel banner.

To see more go to:

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click...1&set_id=1

http://www.safrica.info/doing_busine...e&only.htm

My overall opinion is that these venues will not be for those who frequent Fodors web forums. Furthermore I really believe this is all a marketing gimmick second to none however the rich and famous will fall for it hook line and sinker.

With the above all said Roccco you might be able to square Claridges into some great deal while they are battling in the initial stages of trading after all when Roccco is around anything can happen deal wise. The problem you will encounter is that unlike your other mails where you understandably complain about the Rand/Dollar rate SA that is now strengthening financially to the tune that by the time you start your dealing with these hotels the Rand will be 4 - 5 to the Dollar. Btw I as a proud South African will be very, very happy about a strong Rand after all if we stay in the low Rand categories we remain in the world tin-pot league and that is NOT where I want to stay as a South African. You could argue that this change in rates will amongst others reduce tourism to SA and you could be right. With that said I do believe that we have what it takes tourism wise to attract people to our wonderful country and if it means that we do not attract the "good deal hunters" but rather attract the "I want to see SA for what it is" visitors then we will still do the trade needed to build this fantastic land. This trade will probably not be the same in quantity as we have had over the past 6 years but it will be a quality trade that will still do the partial trick as far as foreign income is concerned. It is my opinion that SA has for too long be known as being a wonderful holiday destination at wholesale prices and we are now moving into a phase of being known as a quality destination for which visitors will pay normal rates relative to the rest of the world and if those who would have vsisted us rather go to Zambia as an example then so be it because there will be other visitors to replace them after all we DO have the product and I dont believe that anybody will challenge this fact.

Yesterday South Africa was awarded the 2010 World Soccer Cup hosting function and you cannot believe the invrdible euphoria amongst the people of my country with regard to this event. Please remember that the World Soccer Cup is the BIGGEST sporting event in the world. It is even bigger than the Olympics because it stretches over a much longer period that the Olympics and the World Cup soccer final is without peer the largest viewed one off sporting event in the world. This event is going to have huge impact on SA tourism and is only one part of the long road we are travelling on to become a quality tourist destination at relevant rates as opposed to a cheap destination. So with that said roll on the rate of ZAR 1 to the 1 US$ in years to come and I suggest that if you want to visit the Claridges you book in early.

Just my twopence worth.

VERY VERY proudly part of the wonderful nation of South Africa

Roccco

Selwyn,

I don't like to be the bearer of bad news, but South African economists are predicting that the Rand will lose ground against the Dollar once the U.S. Federal Bank raises interest rates. Once the differential in interest rates between the U.S. and South Africa erodes, by however small an amount, it makes investment in South Africa less attractive to foreign investors, or so explained an article I read on www.allafrica.com:

http://allafrica.com/stories/200405130669.html

In the article, by year end, South African economists are predicting that the Rand will close out 2004 at 7.3 Rand to 1 USD, not the 4 - 5 range that you desire.

In regards to South Africa surviving and even thriving without the "good deal hunters", please be reminded that even in my thriftyness, I am likely spending far more than the average European or even American tourist, making the majority of tourists to South Africa "good deal hunters", by your own standards. There will be nobody left except for those that are paying rack rates for the Cape Grace, Table Bay Hotel, Londolozi, Singita and other such establishments. Surely you do not think that South Africa can survive on such a minor share of the market. Your own company, from a cursory review, seems to benefit more from those staying at guesthouses and 4* hotels, rather from those individuals without a budget.

So, I do believe there is a mischaracterization, if not outright character assassination, , going on when I am labeled a "good deal hunter."
Good deal hunter or not, I still rarely settle for less than 5* accomodations, and the same cannot be said for the majority of other tourists.

Personally, I do believe that once the U.S. economy picks up further that the Rand will go back above 8 to 1 USD, and I guess I can live with that figure.

Roccco

Selwyn and Arthur,

Thanks for those excellent links. I especially liked this link:

http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=72675

While I do not like the new Claridge's Hotel, whatsoever, I really like some of the apartment and condo complexes going up. The Villa Italia reminds me of the beautiful new complexes that are going up all over my hometown Pasadena.

Makes me want to start putting some money away for South African investment!

Roccco

Speaking of bargain hunting, it is still quite possible to stay at Singita Lebombo as a grand finale and still have an excellent vacation for about $5,000 USD per person.

Check this out:

EARLY JUNE
(includes road transfers)

Day 1 - Arrive Joburg. A Room With A View (1) $250 USD
Day 2 - Transfer to South Luangwa National Park. Kaingo (3) $900 USD
Day 3 - Kaingo
Day 4 - Kaingo
Day 5 - Transfer to Mwamba (2) $600 USD
Day 6 - Mwamba
Day 7 - Transfer to Kafunta River Lodge (3) $1,000 USD
Day 8 - Kafunta
Day 9 - Kafunta
Day 10 - Kafunta Island Bush Camp (2) $700 USD
Day 11 - Kafunta Island Bush Camp
Day 12 - Transfer to Cape Town. Four nights at Les Cascades de Bantry Bay, Deluxe Room (5), $750 USD
Day 13 - Les Cascades de Bantry Bay
Day 14 - Les Cascades de Bantry Bay
Day 15 - Les Cascades de Bantry Bay
Day 16 - Les Cascades de Bantry Bay
Day 17 - Transfer to Singita Lebombo (3) $5,500 USD
Day 18 - Singita Lebombo
Day 19 - Singita Lebombo
Day 20 - Transfer to Joburg - Transfer to USA. END

Free Add-On Air To Lusaka Using South African Air/Delta Frequent Flier Miles.

Lusaka - Mfuwe - Lusaka ($500 USD)

Joburg - Cape Town - Kruger NP - Joburg ($1000 USD)

GRAND TOTAL = $11,200 USD ($5,600 pps) = $295 USD pppns, even with SINGITA LEBOMBO!!!

Time to get my travel agent credentials and sell this itinerary for $7,500 USD per person, a price that will still beat the pants off of what is out there right now.

Ten nights of quality safari in the South Luangwa National Park, Five nights at a very nice looking place in Bantry Bay, One night to recuperate from long flights in Joburg, and Three glorious nights at Singita Lebombo.

19 nights @ $295 USD per person per night sharing, even with Singita Lebombo!!!

ACCOMODATIONS USED IN THIS ITINERARY:

A ROOM WITH A VIEW
http://www.aroomwithaview.co.za/

KAINGO & MWAMBA (Nsefu Sector of South Luangwa)
www.kaingo.com

KAFUNTA RIVER LODGE & KAFUNTA ISLAND BUSH CAMP (Mfuwe Sector of South Luangwa, and very isolated very south part of South Luangwa NP, providing a complete tour of this very large park)
www.luangwa.com

LES CASCADES DE BANTRY BAY
http://www.sa-venues.com/wc/les_cascades.htm

SINGITA LEBOMBO
http://www.singita.com/site/lodges/lebombo.asp

And, for anybody that does not need the pomp and circumstance of Singita and is fine with the ten nights in South Luangwa, by backing out Singita and the extra airfare, It is possible to back out $6,000 USD and reduce the cost of a still very nice 16 night package to the price of $5,200 USD ($2,600 USD pps) = $162.50 pppns.

Selwyn_Davidowitz

Roccco,

I think you could well have a chip on your shoulder. I never labeled you personally as a "good deal hunter" and certainly never meant it to be as such in my mail. Furthermore the whole world does not revolve around what Roccco does in terms of travel and once again my mail was meant to be directed at general tourism in SA and not you. You seem to to have taken a personal stance with regard to what I said in my mail and I can but only hope that you understand that this was not the case in my mail.

In terms of your analogy of the Rand etc lets just say that I hopefully disagree with you in terms of where the currency will land in the near as well as far future.

In terms of tourism in SA under the auspices of a strong Rand the last thing I called for is to have only Cape Gracers etc coming to SA. On the contrary I am calling for all who ever wanted to come to SA to still come to SA however to realise that they will still be attaining great value for money in terms of what they will see. The only difference is that it wont be the same value for money that they have had over lets say the last 10 years (1994-2004). If these parties then elect to go to another country then so be it because in the long run I do believe that what South Africa already offers quality wise and not from a cheapness of travel point of view will still be good enough to attract many other visitors to our shores.

Those who feel differently and run after good deals (there is nothing wrong with being as such) can do so however they could well be losing out relative to what a more expensve SA will offer. In that regard as much as I for instance agree with your idea of Zambian travel you should go do some reading up on the infrastructure of Zambia and you might see that matters are rather tricky in this regard when it comes to the future. In this regard heres hoping that you are never caught in a position that you buy a great deal to a Zambian lodge only to find that when you arrive at the Zambian airport that the airline company does not have fuel to take you back home. This will never happen in SA and it is for these type of scenarios that the average visitor will eventually realise that it might be better to pay an extra couple of pennies to see a great country with lost of peace of mind.

I also want to mention that what you are reading in this mail is now fast becoming the official line that SA tourism vendors are passing out. They are all saying that we made a miatake over the years of marketing ourselves as a cheap destination, we should have marketed ourselves as a quality destination. With that said dont be surprised if you start seeing changes in this regard.

Please note that all of the above are my own thoughts and they are totally speculative so it truly is not worth debating any further however what does not change is that I definitely want a stronger currency for my country, no matter, what because thats shows that we are moving forward with pride. What is more is I believe that we will manage quite well in the tourism world with a currency being a stronger one because as an emerging country we ARE already moving forward in leaps and bounds.

Only time will tell with regard to all of the above.

Very proudly part of the wonderful nation of South Africa

welltraveledbrit

"Six star hotels etc." Sounds like grade inflation to me.

I've spent most of my weekend grading my student's papers and I still don't get either the idea of a 6 star hotel or an A+...it seems that increasingly there's an idea that something can be more than 100%! Crazy!

Just my two cents.

Roccco

Welltraveledbrit,

Yes, one would be well advised to take it with a grain of salt when reading about a 6* establishment.

However, with the way that 5*'s are being thrown around these days, at least by reading 6* I feel comfortable taht it a very top of the line 5* establishment. However, regarding Claridges, I saw it and I was not impressed with the art deco style. Plus, as Selwyn pointed out, it is in Green Point, which is not the best part of town, unless you WANT to be around drugs and prostitution!

sandi

Well if 6* isn't enough check out the Burj al Arab, in Dubai, United Arab Emirates, classified as 7*

www.jumeirahinternational.com

mgmargate

Stayed at Burj al Arab in april.The place is over the top.

sandi

mgmargate - that's right. How about a trip report! Share a bit about the Burj and Dubai in general. It can be a great stop-off for those traveling to Africa. Did you do any shopping? How were the prices? Thanks.

mgmargate

Hello Sandi:We spent 2 nights at Jumeirah beach hotel then 5 nights at the Burj. While the Burj was gorgeous it was not as good for the kids,we ended up spending our day back at jumeirah pool where our kids had made friends or at the Wild Wadi water park. the burj while beautiful was a little over the top for my tastes. Each floor had approx10-12 suites with a butler and concierge on each floor 24 hours,they would open your room,unpack your clothes, as you left your room they would ask if you needed a cab or limo so as to have it waiting for you by the time you got to the lobby.wWe did one day trip to the surronding area to sightsee and shop.Dubai was beautiful and the level of service was the best we have seen in all of our travels. The only disappointment was not getting to see my cousin(Navy seal team 3)who is living in Bahrain.He was out on a mission and could not get over to see us.Dubai is a very progressive society and we were treated fabulously.One thing that suprised me was our return flight was at 3:10am and i was expecting a quiet airport with little open,what we discovered was unbelievable. duty free on a scale I have never seen,dozens of very high end shops and several thousand people shopping like it was X-mas at a high end mall in the U.S.

mgmargate

I would like to provide more indepth info but I type with 1 finger and it gets tedious.Maybe I should learn to type properly.

sandi

Your comment:

>>what we discovered was unbelievable. duty free on a scale I have never seen,dozens of very high end shops and several thousand people shopping like it was X-mas<<

I understand many people never leave the airport. They've said it's the best place for a layover - never seen anything like it.

As to the Burj - I would expect children might not be all to comfortable in that type of environment. So it was good that they had spent the first few days at the other hotel and had made some friends. I guess "over the top" can be a bit much at times, but since we come this way only once, I say "why not"! When the Burj first opened, the comment in Zagat's Int'l Hotels was "move over Donald, the Burj has outdone you" - cute! So glad you had the opportunity to experience the opulence and service.

mgmargate

Just in case anyone is considering Dubai ,the Jumeirah is one of 3 hotels under same owner surronding the water park. You can walk in minutes or they provide golf cart transport. It was a great spot for family vacation,only downside for us was travel time from the U.S.