Well, well - at least this is a good sounding board.

But, as long as you have to deal with people, there will be good times and bad times. Whether traveling, at work, your neighbors, even your best friends, and of course, family... just the way it is.

At a particular time in your life, comes the passage of "house cleaning" when you simply get rid of those people who weigh you down. You change jobs, divorce a spouse, tell your kids to get their own place and a job. If traveling it mght be best to just, rent an entire hotel, so you have no others to deal with. But, even with this, there's then management and if you're an A-hole to begin with, there will be something wrong with this situation.

Whether it's 16/days for $2,000 thru Europe... one of those "if it's Tuesday, it must be Belgium" or pure lux, that many of us can't fathom unless Bill Gates adopted us (and even he, isn't a jerk in situations as above)... I repeat "there are jerks and bigger jerks or there are folks you wish you always had in your life daily."

Possible solution - there might still be an island off Dubai "The World" that someone might want to buy. But, even if you could, you still have to drive thru DXB traffic, unless you go from private jet, to private heli, to be welcomed by hand-picked house staff.

I do recall a tale told by a TA friend, of clients who were so obnoxious and pretentious, that when they arrived at Singita (pvt plane, of course) were put off when asked whether they wanted to join other guests for a wine tasting? "Of course, not, we'd only do this privately" "Ok, then would you like a private wine tasting?" "No, we don't like SA wines." Then came dinner where they were offered three choices for entre. Each ordered one of each, returned each and continued to bitch and moan for the few days they spent there... nothing was every right. Well, the folks at Singita having suffered thru this abuse, made sure that every stop remaining on these folks trip, were advised that "guests from hell were arriving" so the staff were prepared. These were also the same people who were upset that their Louie Voohie (LV) designer suitcases actually touched luggage of other guests who deplaned at the airstrip with them (a separate vehicle had been provided to transport everyone's luggage). The agent was so taken aback by this (a complaint on their return home), it never would have been a pre-safari question she'd think to ask. But, if they had, you can rest assured, a separate vehicle (for a fee) could have been provided. These, are also the same travelers who are decked out in safari clothing from head-to-toe, as if walking off the pages of Vogue and who the other guests laugh about behind their backs!

It takes all kinds, and you just never know, whether with money traveling lux or some couple who has saved for a special holiday to Branson, Missouri! :)

Unless you plan to cut yourself off completely from the human race... jerks will show up somewhere!

Sandi pretty much got it. Jerks are everywhere. And money make no difference.

regards - tom

Yup, Sandi's got it right.
It all about perception and adaptability - money doesn't matter.

A good agent helps as well - meaning setting up a spa girl with a trip to - wait for it - a spa and not the bush, etc.
Nothing worse than getting tsetse's in your toenail polish - oy!

I also think some travel and roll with it better than others. If the neighbors dog keeps you awake, elephants ripping your shower apart will to.
If you have to eat at 5pm and can't be up with the chickens to see the first morning sights

- please don't end up in my jeep :)
signed;
selfishly yours

>>"Nothing worse than getting tsetse's in your toenail polish - oy!"<<

By chance is this a reference to my "emergency nail repair in the bush?" Even in the bush you can't help but come upon people who will gladly offer to accommodate! :)

Sandi,
No,no, no that wasn't a sly reference. Open mouth insert foot.

Nothing wrong with a little bush grooming - I should just go away, as I'm getting deeper. #o
Anyhow, I'm entirely sure that you know what your getting yourself into and don't make unrealistic demands on anyone.

I have to say, I've generally been enjoying these "pet peeve" threads, but this one really bugs me. The idea that a guide or fellow guests would be trying to size up my relative wealth by stray comments (or by any other indicator) is irritating. No one likes complaining, but I'm not sure why it is assumed that a comment about lion's roar or even an ant bite is meant to be a complaint rather than an observation in response to a question.

This reminds me of a recent trip to Costa Rica in which I stayed at Lapa Rios, one of my favorite places on earth. At an early morning hike, the guide asked, "How did you sleep?" One member of the group responded, "I didn't sleep -- I was kept up all night by the howler monkeys." We all jumped in to talk about how loud they were, how they sounded like 747s taking off, how incredible it is that they can make noise that traveled so far, etc. The guide gave us all sorts of interesting information about the number of members of a typical howler monkey "troop," the size of the territory, the distances they travel, etc. The guy who made the first comment said the highlight of the trip was standing on his balcony at sunrise watching a group of the monkeys go by and making their calls.

So, maybe in response to a statement like, "I could hear lions roaring all night," you could look on the bright side and assume that the guest was making a statement, not a complaint. It might be an opportunity to talk about why lions roar at night, how close the lions probably were to the lodge, etc. In response to a statement like, "I was bitten by ants; can you do anything about it," you might say, "Yes, I can recommend that you put DEET on your feet before you go out and calamine lotion after you get a bite. Our indigenous ants are very interesting because . . . ."

I'm still trying to figure out how someone can distinguish between those guests who are "truly wealthy," those who "do not huge amounts of money" but "have saved for a long time to come on safari," and those who have "reasonable wealth but nothing special" -- or even what those categories mean! In my experience, it is very difficult to make those kinds of judgments based on external indicators. Given that your experience of the guests' behavior correlates so closely to your own subjective assessment of the guests' wealth, I suspect that your own treatment of the guests might have something to do with their own behavior. In other words, maybe without even realizing it, you are nicer to those guests whom you believe are "truly wealthy" or "have saved up for the trip." Just an idea to consider . . . :)

Finally, it might also be worth considering whether there is something cultural at work here. In some segments of the population, the only acceptable answer to the question, "How are you?" is "Fine." For other people, such a question is meant to elicit an honest response, and those people are more likely to respond to the question "How are you," with an answer like, "Well, my back has been giving me some trouble lately . . ." Each group drives the other group batty (the second group finding the first group unfriendly and withholding).

Maybe guests should be assigned to vehicles based on their response to the question, "How was your flight?" Points could be assigned for any mention of flight time, turbulence, food quality, entertainment options, crying children or annoying seat mates. Bonus points could be awarded for people who comment on the clothing choices of other passengers ("I couldn't stand it -- a family three rows up had on matching Amelia Earhart flight jackets and scarves! They were obviously not real airline passengers!") Vehicles could then be assigned on the basis of such scores, and guests will assume they have found their soul mates by the end.

Phew, I wasn't intending to be controversial, but I'm happy to get this off my chest!

Good comments Isabel! I love it when a random comment becomes an opportunity for learning -- I'm guessing you're involved in an education (not necessarily a teacher) or are a parent who takes advantage of any opportunity to stimulate thought. Right on!

Isabel,

You would be surprised how easy it is to gauge who a person is when you work in the same industry for number of years. You start to learn small indicators which on the whole, prove to be true. That is the service industry and it is a skill that makes a good manager. I used to look at the booking sheets, get thier nationalities and then watch them carefully get off the plane at the airstrip. They say not to judge a book by its cover, but 85% of the time you can in terms of what they will demand from a safari. For example, if they all get off the plane and take out their binos ready for the trip back to camp, you know you will be dealing with people looking for a rounded experience and not big five chasers.

I would like to pick up on something you mentioned about hearing the lions. I think you may have missed the point of the thread. We have had this dicussion many times. We are not referring to people who say, 'the Lions kept up' - tired, but wasnt that interesting or dammit, I got bite by a bug. It is the spa girls of the world, who complain about the lion making missing them sleep and management to resolve the issue. Or ask maangement to remove all the skinks ( lizards) that crawl inside the tent.

I'm with you Isabel, I have no idea how Jackssid knows how much money each guest has or how long he has had his money, or why it is so important to him to try to figure out the wealth status of each guest.

Some people are just jerks regardless of money. However, if someone does not turn out to be enthralled with the safari experience but remains polite in the vehicle and at dinner so as not to bother other guests, then so what?

We are off to safari in exactly 2 months and thanks Isabel for your comments on this thread.

I have not participated much on this forum as Julian Asher is my agent and all of you know him and he is so fantastic, I have been asking all my questions directly to him.

But I was following this thread and found the comments interesting to say the least. But when Isabel just spoke, for me the voice of reason just spoke. When people "complain" they may not necessarily be really complaining. As Isabel did state its a wonderful opportunity to ask questions and learn.

( and i was a minor in education!)

I'm confused. What does that mean...to "dress safari'? Please don't tell me I have to return the zebra trenchcoat or people will laugh behind my back.

Well, people probably won't laugh behind your back. But a lion may jump on your back !!!!!!

regards - tom
ps - just kidding, I sure crack myself up sometimes :-) Bet I beat out 10 others who were going to say that !!!!!!

Isabel

I think a monkey can tell the difference between a complaint or a statement or a compliment even, especially if you work in the service industry. Come on Isabel, I have had thousands of comments and observations in my career. Never mind body language etc. To even think that this kind of issue could even be a misunderstanding is just ridiculous. That is the whole point from the beginning, that there are certain issues that have really shocked me hence me complaining about it on Fodors.

You are also focusing too much on the money. That is an observation that I used to get the thread going that is only partly true. If you have been reading Fodors for the last couple of months you will see I am always commenting on these kinds of threads to get a message out or even complain (i.e. the lion roaring thing). Brandywine at the end of the day we do not know how much money people really make but in my experience there are a number of jerks that fit into what I described. Read my other comments on other threads and you guys will probably get the picture how I try to get messages out there and why I do it…or maybe you won’t, maybe you two would not be able to differentiate between an unhappy or a happy person?

Shumba is 100% correct when he says you can judge people before even speaking to them. You try not to but the point is people are actually quite easy to read at the end of the day and yes as managers to be any good you have to be able to read people or you would not last a month in this industry, so given the fact that people like myself have been in the industry for a long time speaks for itself.

Chow

Another classic jackssid2 thread!

I almost did not open this one as it didn't look appealing. I must commend you on "speaking your mind" and getting things out there. Too bad if not everybody agrees.

Isabel/Brandywine - how on earth you are not able to tell a complaint from 'er a complaint is baffling. Anybody standing opposite another person listening to them speak can surely judge this? Or maybe we should comment on people who whinge, whine and moan out of habit, just because they are so used to going through life doing those exact 3 things not realising how painfull they sound to those around them.

Shumba is correct, anybody in the service industry CAN make these assumptions and will indeed be right 85% of the time if not more.

It is not only a Safari Camp manager who has this gift. How about the restaurant manager who deduces the following when Crayfish is ordered:
1. The mega rich who order it because they like it.
2. The "wanna be" rich who order it because everybody else at the table is but they actually hate the taste of it yet still brag about eating it the following day.
3.The customer who can only afford it once every 2 months but really looks forward to the outing and enjoys it thoroughly and looks forward to the next outing.

I agree, jerks can come from all these categories but there is a definite tendancy for the majority of comments coming from a certain person which Jackssid mentioned.

Personally being in the service industry just makes me love all my pets at home even more everyday.

I have been on a few safaris and other adventure trips over the years and am shocked by the abuse some staff and managers are subjected to. I am a very fussy person and will certainly complain if it is warranted (dirty bedding, no towels etc) BUT and I think this is the crux of the matter:

Only complain if it is in the power of the responsible party to do something about it!

Why on earth would you complain about something which cannot logically be solved like the roaring lion or innocent ant! I would be bloody surprised if there were no flies on the buffalo carcass or in the midst of 1,5 million Wildebeest!

This is one of my concerns since reading the forums.

The pictures that are in the brochures show lions about 6-8 feet away from open vehicles and sometimes a lion or leopard laying on a car. Other show people very close to animals, so without really thinking about it, assumed the animals must have been fed by a park service.

Then, upon visiting YouTube and watching those frightening videos of animals after other animals....man, did that get my attention and scare the bejeebees out of me.

Unfortunately, the local bookstore had one book on African Animals. Nothing on South Africa or the history, but they can order for me.

What if a lion "charges" the open vehicle? Does the guide carry a gun or is someone pushed out of the vehicle as the sacrifice? Just kidding there, kinda.

To me, it's a can of people on wheels for some of those animals.

ragsi~Never heard of a lion charging a vehicle, have had them walk past within petting distance though! Have heard of elephants, rhino attacking vehicles and snakes falling into the laps of safari goers. All part of the excitement!

Not trying to scare anyone, but there was an isolated incident in Namibia where people can self drive.

No one got hurt and the theories went like this I believe:

-With more self drivers and fewer guides, the behavior from past visitors may have been provoking to the lion.

-The other theory was that at midday, the lion saw his reflection from the shine of the vehicle.

Ragsi,

There are pictures of cheetahs on vehicles. That is a different story than lions or leopards, yikes! The cheetahs climb on vehicles like they would a termite mound, for a better view. Cheetahs are not dangerous to humans like lions and leopards. No wild animal should be teased, taunted, or cornered, but cheetahs are not naturally predators of man.(Quite the opposite, unfortunately.)

The animals are not fed by the park rangers in the national parks. There may be some operations where captive animals are fed, but that is not the case for wild animals.

The animals view the vehicle as a big moving rock. They don't see the people as separate from the vehicle. That's why we don't get out and you have to listen to the guide about when it's ok to stand and when it is not. The gasoline smell masks our scent.

I like your comment about tossing someone overboard as a sacrifice. The one getting tossed is the one who complains to jackssid2 about ants and lion roars. That would take care of the problem guests in no time.

Lions will charge vehicles.

In South Africa the Field Guides are trained with a rifle (most of them) and carry it but in the area they are the animals are relaxed and would never charge and they have 'learned' to ignore vehicles hence the fantastic sightings.

I have been charged on a number of occasions. Admittedly this is also because one of my jobs in the past I had to try to ‘habituate’ very wild lions which had never seen vehicles and a few needed to be collared. To try to get close enough to these guys to collar them was quite difficult and actually sometimes to collar lions that were being hunted was almost impossible and these guys would charge.

Once, I have been charged in the Kruger Park. Many years ago I was driving a small red car (still to this day I believe that this specific red ‘attracted’ the attention of the so called colour blind animals…debate ha ha). Some guy in a huge 4X4 vehicle ahead of me was driving closer to a mating pair of lions. I could see the male getting worked up and knew he was going to charge. I thought that he would charge the 4 x4 which was irritating him, instead he ran around it and an extra 20m to charge my little red car. He smacked straight into the front left of the vehicle with his chest, hence my theory on the red car as well. My engine had been OFF, the 4X4 idiot had left his on (one of my pet peeves!) and kept moving so it was strange the lion would target me, maybe the size of the vehicle? Will never really know but my student car had a fantastic battle scar after that and nobody ever believed me that it was from a lion charge.

Professional guides can very quickly see when a lion or any other animal is feeling threatened or very aggressive and so would not put a guest in danger – BUT this can go back to a thread I wrote awhile back about guiding quality In different countries and more recent type of training. (The FGASA thread)

"The other theory was that at midday, the lion saw his reflection from the shine of the vehicle." - Atravelynn

If this is the same incident, there was also a person standing on the vehicle (above the cabin). The lion struck the vehicle below the standing person.

I don't have much to add but would like to make the following comment:

I've come across several lions who were not habituated to vehicles at all and it's indeed a different ball game. Any guide with common sense will know that you don't have to push your luck.

To my opinion, a rifle gives sometimes a false impression of safety especially while sitting in a vehicle. Mostly you don't have the time to react as quickly as needed in a potentially dangerous situation.

Although you try not to get involved in such situations, things can happen out of the blue and this is nothing to do with the lack of skills of the guide or the client pushing the guide too much. People tend to forget from time to time that we aren't dealing here with pets or tame animals.

Just an example:

Seeing lions feeding on a fresh giraffe kill would be an interesting scene but what happens if a second pride is rushing in and your vehicle is parked too close to the scene and you can't quickly drive off. Well I leave it to your imagination...