Initial SA safari plan coming together - comments welcome
 

OK, you safari gurus out there - thanks for all your help so far. My girlfriend and I have decided that South Africa is where we want to safari, focusing on Sabi Sands (and perhaps North Kruger Park if we have to go downbudget for a bit) - we like the open vehicles. We want to spend 3 to 4 nights in each camp. We can go anytime we want and have read that July, Aug, September is the dry season (but is winter there)and one can see the animals better then. We do not want to drive ourselves anywhere, so flying or driving transfers will be the order of the day.
We are Big Cat fans but might want to throw in one luxurious place with a spa.
Here are the camps we are considering:
MalaMala - seems to be a "must do" because of the game. 3-4 nights
Londolozi - 2-3 nights -leaning towards Bateluer or the Tree Camp
Lion Sands Camp 3-4 nights This one is less expensive so would help us not spend part of our retirement on this trip!:) Anyone been here?

We are figuring an average of $500USD pppn for a safari budget of $5,0000 for 10 days.
plus figuring in a 10% rise in prices for '07. We are figuring $2500RT pp for the airfare from SFO to Johannesburg.

Questions: Is the July, Aug, September time frame the best time for game viewing or did I read that wrong?

Once you get from Johannesburg to, say MalaMala, do you puddle hop to the other camps or can one arrange a drive. We are of the opinion that it is better to spend money than time to get the most use out of the camps, but if I'm wrong in that, please correct me.

Last Question for this post: We are considering ending our trip in Cape Town, but if it is winter there, would one go to the beach? The wine lands hold no allure for us, but hiking, exploring town, history and flopping on a beach do hold allure.

Comments appreciated from all - and as some of you have pointed out, I HAVE been devouring this board for info to help me narrow it down. Thank you all again for your help so far.

Just as an aside, I know I will return to Africa for other countries, but I doubt if my girlfriend will be able to.

We spent 6 nights in Cape Town followed by three in the Winelands - we didn't think we'd be particularly wowed by the Winelands as we pop over to our neighbour, France, pretty often and love touring the wine regions there.

We were there in May which is the start of winter, I believe, and experienced mostly sunny and dry weather - not too cold to our UK minds.

There is tonnes to do in Cape Town and the surrounding area
- if you're into hiking you should definitely look into the various different walk/ hikes up the Table Mountain
- you have all the regular tourist sites including Robben Island, Greenpoint Market (and the one in downtown the name of which I forget) and lots in the centre of Cape Town itself
- A tour of the peninsula is a must including a visit to the Boulders Beach penguin colony and the Cape Point and lots lots more - a full day for sure
- Even if you're not into wine (I am totally not) the landscapes of the Winelands are stunning - the Franshhoek Pass and similar views blew us away
- we're not into this but shark diving in/ near Hermanus is quite a popular activity

Londoz and Lion Sands in particular are relatively easy driving distances from Mala Mala. I'm pretty sure that Lion Sands uses the Mala Mala airstrip.

Are you considering stays at all of Mala Mala, Londolozi AND Lion Sands? The Sabi Sands is one reserve, and with that plan, you'll just be moving camps within the same reserve. I understand the game viewing is excellent at all of those camps, but you'll likely see the same animals, perhaps with slight variations, in the three camps.

Have you considered adding another park to the mix (Addo, Hluhluwe, Phinda, Madikwe, etc.), which would allow you to see different parts of the country.

I could be wrong, but I just don't recall that many visitors staying at multiple camps within the Sabi Sands on the same trip.

Just a thought.

We are open to ALL suggestions - our main goal is the most game for the buck, which is what we want to pay for. We thought, since Sabie Sands was so big, that you'd get different game. If this is incorrect, we will rethink. Our main goals are to see a lot of game, do a few bush walks, maybe fit in some local/cultural events or visiting local people. But mostly animals.

So, thit_cho, or anyone else, with only 10 total safari days available and wanting to spend them in South Africa with minimal travel times between, how should we split it up?

And what about the time frame? Is this really good game viewing time? Every website ways "ANYTIME is the best time to visit..." Yeah, right. We want the best time to see game and if that means rotten weather otherwise, so be it. We don't care if it is extremely cold or extremely hot, either - we can take it if it means better game viewing.

Hello,

Londoz and Mala Mala are literally right next door to one another (a lot of the leopards and lions move back and forth) so it wouldn't really make sense to stay at both of them. I've stayed at Londoz several times (at Tree and Bateleur Camps) and would go back in a heartbeat -- others here can say the same about Mala Mala.

If you have ten safari days, I would suggest combining a stay at Londoz in the Sabi Sands with a stay at Phinda, a private game reserve near Durban. Durban will be warmer than Cape Town during the South African winter if you want to lay on the beach for a bit. Phinda has great game-viewing, but the environment is quite different to the Sabi Sands and will give you some variety.

Phinda is a wonderful reserve with a huge range of different environments. In addition to game drives, you can do walking safaris, rhino tracking, and diving safaris on the coast.

Since Phinda is run by CCAfrica (like Londoz) you can also qualify for one of their winter specials, like the 'Pick two camps, stay for four days, pay for three' -- stay for eight days and pay for six, or stay for twelve and pay for nine!

Take a look on www.ccafrica.com -- my favourite Phinda lodges are Vlei and Forest, but I've never stayed at Getty or Zuka since they're relatively new.

Cheers,
Julian

hi merrittm,

Have just returned from sabi sands 6 jan. I did stay at Lion Sands Ivory Lodge, Londolozi Bateleur, Singita and MalaMala.
Lion Sands was a new one for me, and I loved the lodge, game viewing was reasonable but for me, way too many vehicles from neighbouring reserves - on one sabi sabi vehicle, they had 13 guests - it was ridiculous! The position on the Sabie River was beautiful, but for me, gameviewing is the top priority, so I doubt I would go back.
Londolozi Bateleur was also a first and a big disappointment. The rooms were really disappointing, knowing what I paid to be there! The gameviewing was reasonable, but in 5 nights there, not one elephant, so to me when everyone says that Londo and MalaMala being next to each other, you will see the same animals, I found that to be not true at all! The outlook from our room was supposed to be a view of the Sand River, I suppose it could have been there! We had a chalet, which was so small, the fridge was out on the deck - the rack rate for this room was ZAR6500, and this is ridiculous. One thing in its favour, was the food! The chef, Naas was fantastic! But I do not fly that distance for food or accommodation, but for the first time, I did feel as if I had been taken advantage of in a huge way for being a silly tourist with too much money!
I have always been a MalaMala fan, and nothing has changed. For whatever reasons, and I am sure the Sand River is one, and I am told the control of the burning etc. is another, the variety and numbers of animals I see here, is always consistent and better than the other three reserves I stayed at this trip. To me, the rooms and food, are not as luxurious as Singita or Lion Sands, but once again I do not need to fly to South Africa from Australia to experience luxury, I can do that much closer to home!
I did move around a fair bit this trip compared to previous trips, and I hated it! Even though the travel was only an hour or so, the packing and unpacking and being organised the night before departure wasted too much of my time and energy. I believe, that by staying in one place, that has great gameviewing, you get a much better chance of seeing more wildlife.
In my 22 nights of gameviewing, I saw 30 different leopards, and I do realise how lucky I am. I am a cat fan, but I love all sorts of wildlife from lizards to chameleons to antelope to the night creatures to birds and everything inbetween, except for vervet monkeys and baboons. So for me, there is always something to see!
I usually go in June, July which is very cold during gamedrives, but good viewing with vegetation at a low. The last 3 years I have gone in December which is also good gameviewing, but big expanse of time in the middle of the day as too hot to gameview, this I do not like! I am not sure if most places go to a winter timetable, but MalaMala does and this means you stay out longer in the morning as you have breakfast before you leave, which makes sense to me.
If you have any specific questions, please ask me as I am happy to answer what I can.

Kaye

Thank you Kaye for your candid comments. What were your most unusual sightings this trip?

Hi atravelyn,
We did have some great sightings,a few of the rarer ones would be:
- a 2.5m african rock python had killed a male steenbok, and after stuffing around for an hour, we thought he would start to eat, but a couple with us were bored, and we headed back home - with steam coming out of my head - but went back the next day, no python, but one dead male steenbok. so nothing had eaten it!
-touched a pangolin, whose head was well hidden under a log.
-watched two 13 month old female leopard cubs playing in trees, while being scolded at by a tree squirrel who narrowly missed death when he went up one tree to scold one leopard, while the other leopard had come down a tree and followed the squirrel up the tree, so squirrel was stuck between both cubs, but he did live to tell that tale.
- a couple of kills, though we did always miss the moment of capture, a leopard with a duiker, which screamed and of course, hyena were there in about 10 minutes, subadult lioness with a baby impala, female leopard with a female impala.
-my first ever sighting of egyptian goslings, one lot quite little, the second lot a big bigger
-2 daytime chameleon sightings, which i just love
-watching a big male leopard one day, he was marking a bush when he did a flip and landed about 2m from the bush, then up through the bush comes a huge boomslang (I think that is the spelling) so not sure if he smelt it or saw it, but he had a great reaction, of course I didn't get it on film, but a memorable moment all the same.
-i must have a lot more, as something usually happens everyday that is something new and interesting, will go through the photos to jog my poor old memory

kaye

Hi! I agree to most of the posts. I think it's a bit of overkill staying that long at Mala mala, Londo and lion sands on the same trip.....3-4 nights at lion sands is a bit much. I did stay 3 nights one trip in lion sands and there were issues of the lion pride spending most of the time at sabi sabi and we couldnt see them, except very briefly on one evening drive. However, we had exceptional leopard viewing as in all of sabi sands.

Mala mala i did spend 4 nights on a seperate trip, and given the size of the reserve, i would say it justifies 3-4 nights. However, i did not see a single cheetah. As everyone knows, Mala Mala has a magnificant nyala populations, and especially the male nyalas are fantastic!

Londolozi i know nothing about........from personal experiences

I have spent 4+ nights at Mala Mala frequently. That level of time coupled with the size of the property allows you to venture to the areas that are seldom visited which can result in some great sightings, or in a great sense of peace. I love just being there, driving around, listening and spotting birds, looking at the landscapes, following tracks, all of these are a delight to me. So its even better that Mala Mala is big enough to keep us occupied for as long as we want, because it feels like home to us after so many visits.

thanks austkay for sharing your experiences of Londolozi chalets. I'm currently booking for September and have been tempted by their low season rates of R3995 per person. Now i'm not so sure.

You might want to check Makalali out. I've stayed there a few times at the owners residence(friend). It is a special experience. And the cuisine and presentation is awesome.

www.makalali.co.za

Hello,

I'm afraid that I have to disagree with Austkaye about Londolozi -- I've stayed at Londoz several times, and I've enjoyed wonderful game-viewing in every visit, especially leopard and lion. I've even seen wild dogs a few times, and they are an extraordinarily rare sight in the Sabi Sand. The guides and trackers are superb, and their knowledge of animal behaviour and the specific histories of the animals you encounter makes for a truly special experience.

I prefer Londoz for the smaller camps and the quality of the game-viewing experiences I have had there over the years. Napamatt prefers MM for the same reasons.

This is not to say that every day, even at Londoz or MM, is going to be a brilliant, National Geographic one. One thing to remember is that there is always a certain random factor in game-viewing, and no matter where you go you can end up seeing less than you'd hoped to. I spent four days at Little Vumbura in Botswana, and didn't see any sable (a species regularly sighted there which I had really been hoping to see -- regulars were amazed).

Even if you don't see the 'Big Five', you'll see plenty of animals, large and small, at Londoz or MM. If you're interested in wildlife, you'll find the 'small' game, like the mongooses and antelopes and lizards, as fascinating as the big game. Good luck with your choice.

Cheers,
Julian

Forgot to mention --

I recommend going in June or July -- mornings are crisp and can be a bit chilly, but the bush has died back which makes for excellent game-viewing. Days are warm and sunny. You'll also be able to take advantage of the winter specials at the lodges.

Cheers,
Julian

hi leanapayne

I have booked Londolozi Bateleur for July 2006 for 10 nights, and I am now in the process of trying to change that, regardless of their low winter rates. The rate of R3995, in my opinion, is still way to high for what I have paid for and received at other camps in the Sabi Sand up until now. I was disappointed in the room - by the small size of the bedroom; to me, the
room needed some upgrade, for example, the mould in the shower; the lack of view from the view, which all rooms are on the Sand River, I had a wall of shrub in front of my room; the fridge sat on the deck and we were to store only water in it, as baboons could open it up - all little things that for a night or two might not matter as much, but for a longer stay paying over R12000 for the room, I do expect much more than I received.
I will say that the food was wonderful and the head chef was always aiming to please, but I do not go all that way for food, I expect nice accomodation and overall, great gameviewing, I am not a big 5 person, so to me, there is always something to be seen.
Other rooms at Pioneer and Founders have been recommended to me, and I will try to get these for July 2006.
Kaye

Kaye

Did you pay R12 000/night at Bateleur for a room or a suite?

I am paying R 6100pp/night for Tree Camp.

Referring to Julian's post on sable antelope.........on a recent trip to Kwara........we saw a small herd of sable with a majestic bull......but it was in the area of shide's property and their traversing area.

Hi safarinut,

No it was for a chalet only - no suite. I paid in Australian dollars and it was A$1100 approx per person per night, so approximately R5500 per person per night.
Kaye

merritm,

I do think it would be quite improbable for you to stay 10 nights at Mala Mala, Londolozi and Lion Sands for the budget of $5,000 pp.

For the most bang for your buck, you may want to consider Kwando in Botswana. If you were to visit between December 01st - March 31st, you would be able to stay for about $325 per person per night sharing. Kwando Lebala and Kwando Kwara have gotten a lot of good reviews on this board. December up until mid-January would probably be best and this would allow you to visit Cape Town during its summer.

10 nights of Kwando at this opportune time would come in well within your budget. Plus, you would enjoy much more diversity by spending time in the Kwara concession of Kwando and the Kwando concession. Between these two concessions, they are 1 million acres, or about 8 times the size of the Sabi Sand.

In the Sabi Sand, there are 25+ lodges with possibly 500 beds. Within Kwando's borders, on the other hand, there are only three camps (Kwando Lebala, Kwando Lagoon and Kwando Kwara), with a total of about 40 beds. This makes Kwando about 1/100th the concentration as the Sabi Sand lodges!

Kwando also claims to have more elephants within its borders than all of South Africa. Besides the elephants, Kwando is well known for its predators, including wild dogs, lions, leopards and cheetah. Plus, like the Sabi Sand lodges, Kwando uses the guide & tracker system, unlike Wilderness Safaris.



Good luck with your search.

Hello Austkaye,

I'm glad to hear that you're giving Londoz another shot. If you can afford it, I would try for Tree Camp -- the accommodations there are marvelous.

I haven't stayed at Pioneer, but I've visited and it's very nice, with a more intimate, informal atmosphere than Bateleur. The open kitchen is a treat!

If you don't care for the company of children, you should try for Pioneer over Founders, as Founders is the only camp with family rooms and is where families usually end up.

Perhaps on my next trip to the Sabi Sands, I'll give Mala Mala a try -- their painful single supplement has always dissuaded me in the past. Interestingly, Mala Mala was originally my first choice of lodge for my first safari because I'd read so much about it, but then I discovered Londoz (and the fact that CCA doesn't charge a single supplement) and the rest is history...but it would be still be nice to see what it's like!

Cheers,
Julian

Back to Merritt's question...

Assuming you are sticking to South Africa, and not going to Botswana...

I'd suggest combining a few nights in the Sabi Sands (at Londoz or Mala Mala -- Lion Sands can't really compete from a game-viewing standpoint) with some time at Phinda, which is both very different to and much less expensive than the Sabi Sands while still offering very good game-viewing. In the low season (June, July, August) rates at Phinda start from R2600 ($434) pppn.

An itinerary combining Londoz or Mala Mala and Phinda would fit your budget of an average $500 pppn, though you might need to cut back on the number of days to account for the higher prices in 2007. If you wanted to do a third lodge, a tented lodge might make a very nice complement to the rest of your experience -- Hamilton's Tented Camp and Nottens (www.nottens.com) have both received very good reviews.

Another, more luxurious tented option would be Ngala Tented, a CCAfrica lodge in the Timbavati Private Game Reserve (part of Kruger National Park). I have stayed there and it was a wonderful experience -- being under canvas in the bush is an experience to remember!

I think that this would give you a wide range of wilderness experiences and superb game-viewing.

Note that the Rand is strengthening considerably against the dollar, so it might behove you to make a decision and pay in advance to secure a more advantageous exchange rate.

Cheers,
Julian

Hi jasher

that 'painful single supplement' is very painful indeed. I want to go to Mala Mala for 2 nights but paying the single supplement is something that I just can't bring myself to do - on principle. Because you are paying for services: food, drives etc and not only for accomdoation. If I know that I am paying $250 more than the guy sitting next to me on the game drive it tends to make me angry.

Why does that make you angry? A lot of the fee is for the accomodation, which is fixed irrspective of the number of occupants. There usually is a small reduction for a single traveler to account for variable costs (such as food). I travel frequently, so about half my trips are solo, and I fully understand the single supplement, and don't object to it.

Austkaye,

I finally found this again. Those were tremendous unusual finds. Not only seeing, but touching a pangolin is amazing. Thanks.

Hello Leah,

If you want to avoid the single supplement, go with Londolozi -- CCAfrica does not charge single supplements, and the game-viewing is first class.

I know some negative things have been said about the chalets at Bateleur Camp, but I have stayed there several times (in chalets and in suites) and have enjoyed it very much. The rooms are not identical, so it is possible (probably likely) that some are not as nice as others -- mine were spacious and very nice, and didn't have the problems noted by Austkaye. When I was there in July 2005, I was told that the rooms at Bateleur will be undergoing some renovations in the coming year -- you may want to ask about this.

If Bateleur doesn't appeal to you, there are three other camps to choose from (Tree, Pioneer, and Founders). The other camps are smaller and newer -- Bateleur is the 'original' camp, and isn't quite as posh as the others, but has a lot of history (and a phenomenal vieiwng deck).

Cheers,
Julian

BTW Leah, I agree with you about outsize single supplements -- I heartily dislike them and avoid paying them when I can. I think a small supplement (say 20%) is acceptable, given the economics involved, but paying 50 (or sometimes 75, or even 100%) more is too much.

Cheers,
Julian

Thank you safari gurus! We've now rethought our plans and have been speaking with ccafrica regarding the itinerary. (Thanks jasher and some personal friends who had actually used them!) They came up with Ngala, Londolozi and Phinda. (We'll get to which camps later, since much depends on '07 pricing - I mean, we're even willing to put up with camps that allow CHILDREN if we have to!!! :) Seems like these camps have everything we need and cover the areas we want and have available what we'd like to do or see.

We have factored in a 10% rise in prices for 2007, so our budget per person is actually $550 pppn, but we needed to look at what the prices are now to judge that. Whatever the currency fluctations do, they'll just have to be accounted for. By the way, we asked, but the '07 prices are not out yet, so even if we plunck down money now, there are no guarantees.
Roccco: Maybe on my next trip when I am going either by myself or with a different travel partner, but we've already decided on South Africa (meets both our requirements) for our first, after much deliberation. I hate to admit it, but one of the considerations was how many innoculations one had to get - I'm horribly needle phobic! so that WAS a consideration.

Kavey, thanks for your Cape Town input. We will end our trip there. Looking forward to reading a lot of "Selwyn" posts on ideas for Cape Town, but will ask under a different heading.

And thank you all for getting us to rethink our areas of game viewing.

Question to napamatt: I'm assuming that you live in Napa, CA (We are in the Bay Area, also) I'd be interested in which air routes or airlines you found to be convenient/affordable and did you have horrible jet lag or were you able to go directly into safari mode?

Merritt

Yes I live in Napa.

We generally fly United Upgraded Business to LHR from SFO on the 12:30 flight. That arrives London before 7am, that gives us the day with family. Then we fly Virgin Upper Class leaving LHR at about 9pm arriving 9am JNB.
We have found that staying awake for thirty six hours makes us sleep very well on the flight to JNB, then we take Unisom OTC sleep aids for the first day or so to make sure we sleep through to 5:30am.

In the past we spent a night in London, we slept fine that night due to exhaustion, but were wide awake on the night flight, even on Virgin that is painful.

We have not considered flying SAA from the east coast becuase of the refuelling stop, because we have lots of miles to upgrade we usually have optimum sleeping conditions onboard and would hate to be woken up to land to refuel.

Hope this helps.

Check out mtbeds.co.za. I have used them twice...March '04 and November '05. Stayed at Londolozi (Founders Camp), Lion Sands, and Exeter Dulini. You can't book until two weeks before arrival so that may scare some, but we were able to choose from most of the lodges. I can't imagine you having a problem during that time of year.