Help for Tanzania Itinerary
 

Hi,

Here I am yet another person who needs help with a 10 to 12 day Tanzania safari itinerary to begin mid January 2006. I am well traveled in southern Africa, but have found planning this one so difficult, but apparently I'm not alone. Have been very impressed with the info on your forums.

Regarding booking agents, I've narrowed it down to ATR and Tanzania Serengeti Adventure. While Tanzania Serengeti is considerably cheaper for a comparable itinerary, ATR seems so much more professional. Has anyone traveled with TSA and are they reliable?

Am also undecided about safari lodges/camps. While we appreciate the luxury of CCA lodge, we also like the adventure of a Olduvai Tented Camp or Ronjo Flycamp that seem to be heavily promoted by ATR. In fact, I don't even know how many days to spend where in northern Tanzania--maybe 5 nights.

We are also planning to spend 3 nights in Selous and 2 nights in Ruaha. We prefer the small, intimate camps. Here the dilemma is Sand River Selous or Selous Safari Camp. In Ruaha, the decision is Mwagusi or Jongomero. By the way, is Jongomero really a CCA camp? I heard it is, but it isn't listed on their website.

Any advice/recommendations will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Here is a link to a report from a trip to Selous and Ruaha.
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34649444

amfs will be returning from her honeymoon in a week or so--she will have spent a night at Olduvai--but for Jan 06 you may be in a time crunch to make some decisions.

Have you seen the posts about Eben's website that maps the various camps and gives links to pictures? www.go-safari.com

Thanks for such a quick reply. I have been reading Eben's remarks and that's where I gained respect for all the folks who have been offering information. Am going to take a look at the links you posted now.

Oh, I am so envious! I remember Dick Snyder's trip report and him saying that the best of all possible safaris might be to somehow combine Serengeti and Ruaha. Okay, maybe those weren't his exact words. ;)

I'm going with ATR, but not until next June, so I'm afraid I can't be of much help. I think someone JUST got back from a safari with Good Earth, but he/she hasn't yet posted a report.

If you go with ATR they will likely steer you to the "rustic" camps, Ronjo et al. Not a problem if that's what you want. TSA gets good marks on this board, but I don't recall reading anything recently. And of course people also rave about Roy Safaris.

Personally I wouldn't want fewer than 4 nights in the Serengeti, but if you're short on time (and because you're fortunate to be doing the Southern circuit), you coulld get away with three. Six nights Northern would give you a little more wiggle room, though.

Looking forward to hearing others' suggestions.

Here's a trip report from someone who traveled with TSA recently -

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34683315

I don't think there have been any reports here of Selous/Ruaha in Jan. My understanding is that the game viewing in these parks is best during the Jun-Oct dry season. I'd be very interested to hear what your impressions of these parks were for this time of year when you return.

Hello,

I would suggest a mix of rustic and luxury camps -- perhaps a few days in the Serengeti with Nomad Tanzania followed by 1 or 2 days at Crater Lodge.

Personally, I think that Northern and Southern Tanzania are each worth a separate trip. However, if you do want to do them both in one trip, I would suggest something along these lines:

5 days Serengeti (Nomad Tanzania)
1-2 days Ngorongoro (Crater Lodge)
3 days Selous (Sand Rivers Selous)
2-3 days Ruaha (Mwagusi)

The Nomad camps and Mwagusi are more rustic, whereas Crater Lodge and Sand Rivers are both very luxurious. Selous Safari is not as luxurious as Sand Rivers but is still quite luxurious. Neither Jongomero or Selous Safari (owned by the same company) are CCA camps, though they were CCA camps a few years ago.

Cheers,
Julian

Thanks everybody for all the great information so far.

I have wanted to do the southern circuit for years. The year my husband passed away we were going to do it. Now I am traveling with a friend who wants to do the northern circuit. I, of course, am mainly interested in the southern circuit and realize that this isn't the best time of the year to do it. Oh, well, we'll hope for the best. We did safari in KwaZulu Natal during the rainy season two years ago and it turned out better than I thought it would.



Thanks Julian for clearing up the Jongomero/CCA confusion.

You guys are great!

Hi safarilover

I cannot comment on the outfitters but I can offer some opinions on the wildlife and "adventure camping" in general!

The situation has changed in Tanzania over the last 2 years. There are now more camping options available to suit a variety of budgets. As a result, there is no reason whatsoever to be pressured into lodges or camps simply because of existing agent/lodge relationships.

In your case, you it will be cool to mix the experience of the Migration on the wide open plains with your tradional bush safari in Ruaha.

In January 2005, the migration pattern favored the Moru and Gol areas of the Serengeti, with some movement south towards Ndutu. Camps near Piaya and Moru had the best opportunities to see the wide open plains just dotted with wildebeest as far as the eyes could see.

In Feb the pattern shifted around and often, with a million animals disappearing virtually overnight - going west and south west before returning to the south east and dropping their calves just north of Ndutu at the end of Feb/early March.

With some uncertainty and no crystal ball, I suggest you consider splitting your time between at least 2 seasonal camps near Gol (at Piaya), Ndutu or (3rd choice) Seronera (south or east camps). Your budget and availability will dictate your choices. As it stands you current suggestions fall outside this triangle of choices!

A split 4-5 nights will be good but I wonder if want to visit Ngorongoro as well?
Eben

Eben,
What if she had 6 nights for Northern and 5 or 6 for Southern (not including any delay in Arusha or Dar b/c of flight schedules)? How exactly would you do that in January?

Sorry to be slow. I can't seem to wrap my brain around this one.

Eben

You are so helpful! This is what I needed to know. Now if you can just help me out with some names of camps in those areas--maybe one rustic and one more upscale. What I can't seem to locate is a Serengeti map with the the lodges/camps so I know what is where. That has been the worst part about planning this trip.

And, yes, Ngorongoro is on the itinerary.

Leann

safarilover:

In case you start heading in a Nomad direction (seasonal camps in the Serenget/NGA areas Eben mentioned) and you go to Selous--Sand River is Nomad affiliated and you can save money for a certain number of nights. I think that it is 5 nights at one camp or 9 nights at a combination of camps. You might check into that.

Leann,
Eben's website has downloadable maps with the locations of most lodges and camps in northern Tanzania including the Serengeti -

www.go-safari.com

You'll need to install Google Earth (if you can) to view the files.

The camps are here:

http://www.go-safari.com/Serengeti/serengeti.htm

The Northern Circuit part is easy to design and Julian mentioned Nomad as an excellent seasonal option. EMC, Sayari, Explorer and others are all wonderful but these are not cheap as you can see from the rack rates in the link above!

There are other options if these prices blow your budget.

Leely makes a good point about flights. For example, down to Jongomeru the flights (Coastal) leave Arusha on Tue/Fri/Sun and return on Mon/Thu/Sat.

So you may have to start with that part of the itinerary and work backwards!

Wow! Now I suddenly have more options. When I am finished this note, I'll be out to all the suggested websites and spend a few hours researching. Will be taking a good look at Nomad as Sand River is probably my first choice in Selous. If it would tie in with other Nomad properties, this would be ideal.

Ideally, we could do 5 nights north and 5 nights south. And, yes, I would like to do this without spending any overnights just waiting for a flight the next day.

Leann

Hi Leann,

Any chance you can add another day or two? Five days for Northern Tanzania seems a bit short. If you only have five, I would suggest 4 in the Serengeti and 1 at the Crater.

Cheers,
Julian

The flights between Ruaha and Selous also only operate 3x weekly (I believe on Mo/Th/Sa but double check). Flights between Selous and Dar Es Salaam operate daily. So you'll need to figure out which order works best depending on the flight schedule.

I don't know where you are, but if flying from North America or Europe, KLM flies into/out of both Kilimanjaro and Dar, so you can fly into one airport and out of the other to avoid backtracking.

Hello,

There is a flight schedule on Mwagusi's website (www.mwagusi.com). I'm not sure how up to date it is, however, so I would double-check before making any plans based on it.

Cheers,
Julian

Well, I don't want to shoot these two companies down, but I have had recent dealings with them and won't be using either one. I'm planning a trip to Tanzania in June and asked for proposals from several companies, including these two.

Re: ATR - the fellow who responded to my request kept sending me emails that had attachments that for some reason I could not open. I told him I could not open them, and asked him to please send me the proposals and pricing in emails, not attachments. He then sent another attachment, I sent another "please don't" email, and after that I didn't get anything else from him.

Re: TSA - my experience has involved miscommunication, and is similar to some views expressed by Eben to another writer about the advice from this company. Right from the start, I made it very clear that my main goal was seeing the migration. The rep suggested Mbalageti at the end of June, early July. I suggested earlier in June as I had read some things about the migration usually being in the western Serengeti in early to mid June. He replied that his recommendation was still the same: late June/early July. I then emailed the camp directly and was told I would need to be there in early June. So, according to the camp itself, I would have missed the migration by going in late June/early July. But, that wasn't all, after several emails in which the price was stated, and even confirmed by the company after I sent an email seeking clarification, when it came time to finalize arrangements, all of a sudden the price rose about $400 per person for our one week in Tanzania.

So, as I said, I'm not trying to shoot down these companies, but would recommend to anyone contemplating using one of them, especially TSA, be sure to ask questions, don't assume that what you want is what will be done, follow up and check with other sources before finalizing contracts. Interestingly, as someone else on this board has done, I also checked references for TSA and they were all excellent. There was just one complaint and it was about a TSA person being late at times to pick them up. Good luck!

Thanks everybody.

Julian, I will see if I can talk my traveling companion into 5 nights in the north. Time is not a problem for me; if we're going to spend the money to get there, I at least want to see as much as we can.

Wjsonl, appreciate your comments on both companies. I haven't had any trouble opening ATR's attachments. I have been a little concerned, though, with the communication from TSA. When I asked about Sand River Selous vs. Selous Safari Camp, they replied that I would be happy with either one. Not the kind of answer I was looking for. Have you selected a company yet? If so, which one? Unfortunately, we don't have a lot of time to finalize this.

Patty, we'll be leaving from New York (live in Delaware), and then flying to Cape Town after our Tanzania stint. Makes the international flights tricky, too. Am inclined to do South African Airways into Joburg, then Dar, unless somebody can get me something significantly cheaper on another airline.

Leann

Leely just about hit it on the head--I would think of a mix of northern and southern if and when we can return. And, I think I would take Ruaha over Selous. I suggest checking with Foxes of Africa if for nothing else then flight schedules as they have own planes and flexibility might add to decision making. Others more familiar with Selous particularly the camps might have more to share and that might offset my partiality towards Ruaha. In any case, I am looking forward to reading more reports and seeing more photos!! Need another fix as withdrawal is setting in! Good luck in the planing.
Dick

Hi Leann, no, haven't made a decision yet on which company to use. Good luck on your planning and have a great time on your safari! I was there with my wife, son, and grandson in June and fell in love with both Kenya and Tanzania, the countries, the animals, and the people. And you will, too! Jack

Hi All,
Please help! Another "newbie" needing assistance. Am planning a private safari for 2 to Tanzania early December (yes, not much time I realize). Thomson Safari needed more lead time. So started to work with Born Free, but I have heard mixed reviews on them. Any feedback? Do they 'broker' out their tours? Also, the following was the proposed itinerary:
-2 days Manyara at Kirurumu
-4 days Seregetti 2 at either Serena Lodge or Ndutu Lodge, and 2 at a walking camp
-2 days Ngo Crater at Plantation Lodge or Ngo Farm House
-2 days Tarangire at Tarangire Safari Lodge or Kikoti.
Price: $4900 per person or $5800 per person.
Itinerary seems pretty standard from what I can tell -- any thoughts on the lodges? Are they well-situated? Does the pricing seem high, or reasonable? It is for a private safaris and there is also a day in DAR and two in Zanzibar, so not sure then if it is reasonable or still high. How can I "shop" the itinerary? To which operators? Please help! They're asking for a deposit by Fri. Any suggestions, ideas, feedback are greatly appreciated. Can post here or mail to me. Thank you!!

I'm certainly no expert (pretty much a newbie myself), but if they're asking for a deposit by Friday, does that mean you've already told them to finalize your itinerary and reserve the lodges for you? If you haven't, then it seems premature to me for them to ask for a deposit. There are quite a few good safari companies mentioned on this board, for example: Roy, Africa Serendipity, etc, etc, and there are two people whose names you'll frequently see on this board who I'd recommend to anyone seeking advice, especially quick help (and I know there are others, so you other guys please forgive me for only mentioning the two that came to mind first: Eben (climbhighsleeplow) and Sandi. Good luck and have a wonderful trip! Jack

Hi, No, I haven't asked them to finalize anything. They are just sort of pressuring me. I would like to shop a bit. I have contacted Roy and am waiting for a quote. Thanks for the reply and any additional advice!

Hello Marcus,

If Born Free are pressuring you, don't use them -- go with someone who will work with you to give you an itinerary you are happy with, not someone who tries to push you into accepting something 'off the rack.'

I would recommend contacting Africa Serendipity or Eco-Resorts -- both companies are East Africa specialists who provide very competitive pricing and will come back to you quite quickly (an important factor with your trip).

www.africaserendipity.com

www.eco-resorts.com

Cheers,
Julian

Marcus, I second Julian's advice. Also, your quote seems high to me, but does it perhaps include international air? If so, then I'd say it's quite reasonable, depending on where you're flying from.

Other operators frequently recommended on this board are Good Earth and Roy Safaris. And...others too many for my feeble brain to remember, but you can do a search for Tanzania tour operators here and see what you come up with.

Good luck!

Hi--no, the quote did not include int'l air fare! I also thought it was high given that there were no luxury lodges. I've since contacted Roy, CCAfrica, TSA, Africa Dream Safaris and Green Footprint. Also plan to contact Africa Serendipity, Eco, and Good Earth. Any feedback on any of these? Thanks everyone!

Hi Marcus,

Re: "I've since contacted Roy, CCAfrica, TSA, Africa Dream Safaris and Green Footprint. Also plan to contact Africa Serendipity, Eco, and Good Earth. Any feedback on any of these?" - please see my comments regarding ATR and TSA earlier in this same column on 10-12-05. I've personally had a lot of help and enjoyed very cordial and professional dealings (ongoing) with Africa Serendipity, CCAfrica, and Green Footprint. Best of luck, Jack

Marcus, one more time about TSA:

I failed to mention that they charge an extra 6 1/2% of the total cost of your safari if you use a credit card to pay for it.

I also mistakenly stated in my 10-12-05 comments in this column that I had only received one complaint from former clients (that TSA employees were late to pick them up), but actually there were two: the client had not been informed in advance about the extra charge for using a credit card. Jack

Dear safarilover,
One of the many frustations that I dealt with when arranging our safari was that most of the well known companies were baiting and switching by quoting 2004 prices (maybe not purposely)even though lots had already been pretty much booked for next winter. We're going next Feb. to the Northern Tanzanian circuit (permanant tent, mobile tenting and one night lodge) 12 night 3800. small group - similar private was 4500.. I started with those companies recommended by National Geographic and the Lonely Planet and ended up choosing African Adventure due to price and the fact that they were able to work with my rather difficult to plan extention trip to the Seychelles due to lack of flights etc. I dealt directly with Allison Nolting who is actually from Kenya and married to partner/owner Mark who has written extensively about Africa. Thompson was absolutely wonderful to deal with but their dates and prices didn't work. Good Earth was just too difficult to deal with being a total novice. Their reps. just don't seem forth coming. Born Free - too sales oriented and pushy. Aberchromie and Kent - horribly rude on the phone - I just received their requested brocure that I had asked for at least 3 months ago. Lots of these companies will not give you an email quote until they send you their brocure etc. I tried Roys but they also took forever to send me anything and when it finally arrived it didn't have any pricing. I acually did want a US based company as advised by others for a safety net. It's probably overkill but I did start to run out of time and energy and didn't want to have to deal with figuring out money conversions for pricing, best times to call these people in diferent time zones etc. I've done alot of traveling (usually self planned) and I must say that sorting thru this stuff was starting to be a full time job. Once you figure out your itinerary (it seems like your close)- it will be alot easier to get some real quotes. As others have said, these companies make big bucks off us (even though they probably work hard) so don't be afraid to go elsewhere if your not liking what is being offered.
Best of luck on your adventure;
Sherry

It's fairly common for in country tour operators to add a surcharge for credit card payments (that's if they accept them, some don't).

Hi, Everyone

I'm still out here working on an itinerary! I have a much better idea now of where I should be going and how the whole Tanzania thing works, thanks to all of you and a few people I've talked to on the phone.

The problem now seems to be that I've identified where I want to be--Southern Serengeti to see the wildebeest and a bit farther north such as Naabi Hill and the GOL kjopies to see the predators, but now everything close to there seems to be fully booked except for mobile camping which is very expensive.

Now I'm waiting for one more revised proposal from ATR, and depending on what availability he can get and the price, we'll either book or wait another year. Of course, we don't want to wait another year!

By the way, TSA stated very clearly in their information that there was a surcharge for using a credit card. But we felt that there were a lot of hidden charges there which would make the initially reasonable price much higher in the end.

All in all, I think I've received prompt responses from everyone I've contacted. I have just been rather disappointed in some of the itineraries. For instance, it took a lot of work on my part to figure out the best areas to see in the Serengeti for mid to late January. Why didn't my initial proposals include those places? Why did I have to figure this out, and now probably too late.

Another thing that bothers me is that some companies have lodge prices posted, but they are the rack rates. In reality, that is not what the company is paying to the lodge, but that is what they're charging the customer, so who knows what we're really paying. What about high and low season rates, too?

Eben, I downloaded Google Earth and your Serengeti file. It is so cool!

Well, it has been a learning experience, and I will let you know how it turns out. I agree that it is like a full-time job.

Leann

Leann,
I'm curious as to what hidden charges there were in your initial quote from TSA?

Patty,

Not included with the published total was a flight at the end of the safari from Arush back to Dar, national park entrance fees, airport departure taxes, and a USD 30 booking fee. The information was in the proposal, but one had to read it thoroughly to see it.

Leann

They didn't include park entrance fees? That is very strange.

Anyway, Leann, I hope the planning is going well. This is a combo I was fantasizing about for myself, so I'm very curious!

Do try to talk your friend into 12 nights if you can.

Thanks, Leann. I'm also surprised that they listed park entrance fees separately. The booking fee is unusual too. Don't think I've ever come across that one.

I'm not that surprised that your JRO-DAR flight was listed separately. I think some tour operators just list flights that are not part of the safari that way. Actually, this is what I prefer as I can see exactly how much the safari and the extra flight are costing me.

Departure taxes (if these are referring to your international flights) are normally included in the price of your ticket. Tanzania recently implemented a separate security fee of approx $8 for international departures. I believe you'll need to pay this in cash upon your departure from DAR.

I hope you can make it work for Jan 2006. Let us know what you end up doing.

Patty, I'm sure you know more about it than I do, me being a newbie and all, but TSA is the only company that I've worked with that, both for the trip I'm planning in June or July, and the trip my family took last June, that has charged extra for using a credit card. For TSA to charge a client 6 1/2% withhout telling him upfront and long before things were being finalized, was wrong. I personally don't want to deal with a company that's going to say at the last minute, oh, by the way, we forgot to mention.... :-)

The flights to/from Arusha/Kili to ZNZ/DAR are still in a bit of flux. Schedules and prices are constantly changing. And it's not unusual that the VAT fees are separate on the ZNZ legs. But that should be clearly stated and advised that these (small amounts) will be included at the time of final invoice. There's a $20 departure fee from ZNZ for Int'l flights and half-that (or less) for an intra-Tanzania flight. Likewise the new Security fee departing JRO or DAR in USD$20.

No Park Fees - Duh! You've got to pay these and though the numbers are still fluid with new fees scheduled to go into effect 2006, they should at least include the 2005 fees with a notation re the proposed increase.

You could pick me up off the floor - the Booking Fee. How do they expect to do business... osmosis! or showing up at JRO and saying "here we are let's go on safari." Sounds to me like a sneaky way to get in a few more $$$. Kind of reminds me of the Preparation Fees some operators charge for a custom itinerary (though that at least is deducted from your final invoice if you book with the operator.)

I guess, nothing should be surprise.

Jack,
Let me clarify that I was only referring to in country tour operators when it comes to the credit card surcharge. I believe that their processing fees are higher than that of US based merchant accounts.

If you're working with an agent in the US or UK, I wouldn't expect an additional surcharge as this is normally built into their cost. It's actually against merchant agreements with Visa/Mastercard/Amex in the US to add a surcharge for accepting credit card versus cash payment and you can report violating merchants. Merchants also aren't allowed to set minimum or maximum limits when it comes to accepting credit card payments but car dealers are infamous offenders when it comes to this practice (but now I'm getting way off topic ;) )

Back to the original subject, I posted my earlier comment more or less for anyone in the quote/booking process so that they're not surprised by this surcharge.

Gotcha. Have a great weekend! :-)