FLNan

Hello everyone. I always dreamed of a trip to Israel, however, my husband refused to put our family at risk traveling there. Now he has changed his mind! With only a two day stop in Israel, with us staying the night on the cruise ship, and hiring a private guide (no bus tours), my husband is thrilled to go.

I, on the other hand, am not. Let me explain why. Upon visiting so many Cathedrals through out Europe, I have discovered that wild claims of authenticity, regarding all things biblical, abound. I'm referring to relics. Cathedrals and Abbey's claims were shocking. One claimed to be in possession of the actual blood drops of Jesus in a gold vial. One claimed to have an actual chip of Jesus' cross. Too many to mention. The claims are never stated as likely. They are stated as fact. I find it offensive, not inspiring. As a Christian, I don't understand why a Pope or two didn't blush at the claims in their Cathedrals or Abbey's and reword, or remove some of the outlandish relics.

As I studied for a trip to Egypt, I loved to read about the likelihood of the authenticity of different royal mummies. Regarding Egyptian finds, authenticity is regularly challenged. Unfortunately, this does not seem to be the case concerning historical items, biblical in nature.

A friend of mine returned from a trip to Israel gushing that she had touched the very manger of Jesus. How outlandish! Apparently, there is no shame when presenting "true biblical" relics, this leaves me disheartened.

Here is my plan, hope that my guide can show us sites that are likely to be authentic. Are there many? Other than named rivers, mountains and valley's, etc.? Also, I'm trying to tell myself, lighten up, people are trying to make a living, so don't be childish, accept that people exaggerate and get over it. Determine not to be offended (even if the church is presenting the lies). Drink in modern Israel and the unique history, culture, and people of the land. For goodness sake, I only have two days!

Well, that is my plan. I yearned to see Israel for soooo long. I'm just very sad that I am not excited about it. I guess I am just jaded.

I'd welcome any advice, rebukes or encouragement.

Thanks,
Nannette

sandi

Use your common sense.

Jesus' manger? Give me a break.
Wood from 2000+ years? Yeh, like Noah's ark on Mt. Ararat!

For real, try to get to see the Dead Sea scrolls at the Shine of the Book.
Fascinating!

FLNan

Thanks Sandi. I think that the Dead Sea Scrolls would be fascinating to see. I also have decided, after some wise advise, stop over-analyzing, fretting and stewing about things. I'll count my blessings to have a couple days in Israel and enjoy. I can get into that!

Thanks again,
Nannette

HariS

Just saw your title, couldn't help replying to this.......plan a safari to either East or Southern Africa. Experience beyond belief!!! Trust me, it will exciete you....just look at all of us Africa fodorites here.....

Happy travels
Hari

FLNan

Oh Hari, You cannot imagine how eager I am to take that trip!!

Nannette

Gardyloo

Well, the trip into Bethelem these days is not always that easy - it's in the PA territory and there can be delays or aggro.

The Church of the Holy Sepulchre is straight out fascinating, whether you believe it stands on Golgotha or not. Even as a lesson in how not to get along with sister churches (long story - the church is a bit of a shambles because of disagreements among the 3 churches that "manage" it) it's an amazing experience.

Just being in Jerusalem is a bolt of lightening - it's so ancient, so beautiful, so full of the past and the present - just breathe the air and you'll get over your apathy. Frankly, by the time you've gotten from the coast up to Jerusalem, you'll be hooked. Betcha.

Gardyloo

Lightning. Oy.

sandi

Gardyloo reminds me of the going ons at the Church of the Holy Seplucah with the groups fighting over their space. Grown men acting the fools. That in itself is a show.

Overall, the old city and souk are fascinating and everything quite amazing.

And, remember your bags will be inspected at all sites, supermarkets, hotels, etc. - welcome to the new world, though they've been doing this in Isreal for yours. Oh, and no trash cans in the streets (place to hid bombs), so take your candy wrappers, and other stuff in your pockets or bags and dispose at hotel.

yasron

I live in Israel and first of all Israel is not just a museum of Christianity. Go float in the Dead Sea, walk the streets of Jerusalem (old and new), observe the mixture of people, drink freshly squeezed pomengrante juice. Eat a freshly made Druze pita in a Druze village. See the markets in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. Drive around the Sea of Galilee, not only because of Jesus. Yes do visit the Holy Seplechure because it is special, even it is not the exact burial site. Drive to Rosh Haniqra - the border of Lebanon and Israel. Go Hamat Gader, the hot springs on the Syrian,Lebanese and Israel Border. See the Bahai Temple on Mount Carmel in Haifa. Note I said Bahai and not Christian. Enjoy- two days is not enough!!!

thit_cho

You are willing to believe that someone was immaculately conceived, and that his father was an imaginary and unverifiable deity, but not that an actual chip from a cross survived? All religions are myths, not facts, and require faith. That's why they are so powerful; they cannot be challenged logically.

FLNan

thit_cho, Yes I believe the prophesies regarding the immaculate conception of Jesus and the prophesies of the deity of Christ were fulfilled through Christ. The facts inspire faith and have been logically challenged and those challenges answered time and time again. Clearly, not to your satisfaction. That is fine, and should be fine with every one. We do not have to all believe the same things.

I do not, however, believe that this is the forum for discussions about religions inability to stand up to logical challenges.


The reason I wrote this forum for help, is because I wanted to be excited to see Israel. I was sure that many on this forum could help. You all did. I have been enlightened, rebuked, and encouraged. I loved it!!!

Gardyloo, Sandi, Yasron, and Gardyloo, You guys are great. I appreciate your input. I am getting more and more excited about my trip to Israel every day.

Thanks a million,
Nannette

gene1414

Nannette

We have traveled the world and seen many incredible places. I would rate Machu Pichu, Pompeii, Venice, and the old city of Jerusalem as four of the most incredible and unusual things we have ever seen that are man made.

We have seen many wonders of nature and I am not referring to them....

Imagine approaching a very tall stone wall with just a very few gates to enter. Upon entering - the streets are narrow, old and labrinthine. The roads take off in so many ways you cannot help but get lost. Use a map....

On all sides there are old stone building. They have been there for centuries. And they are still inhabited with people with dreams, hopes, and expectations. At every turn there is something new and unexpected. On top of that, there is history at every turn of the road.

So you keep seeing things that were there 800 years ago or 1400 years ago, or 2,000 years ago. And not much has changed. Take 4 generations per century and this can represent over 80 generations! Incredible.

I know of no place on earth we have visited that can match the old city of Jerusalem. You should leave it completely mermerized.

Better yet, get a guide to walk with you and explain. They are everywhere and the price is negotiable.

Old Jerusalen is divided uneaqually into four parts -arab, jewish, christian, snd I think armenian (not sure - just memory). Each quadrant is totally different experience. So go see for yourself.

If this does not completely captivate you - there is little else that man has made the will be as incredible. Old Jerusalem is part history, part self-identity, part adventure, and certainly part nostalgia. It is a return to your roots.

Go see. I promise you if you have an open mind and a little imagination - you will become immersed in every cobblestone steet, every alleyway, many of the shops and what has happened over the centuries. And there are all the wonderful stories that were part of the rich Jerusalem culture. After all - it is the cradle of three great religions - jew, christian, arab.

Then go outside the walls. Start to walk in the new city of Jerusalem. I was there in 1958 - 10 years after the war of independence. I reutned around 2,000. Over 40 years later. What achange!

Nothing is similar. The entire culture and contrast is stark compared to the old city.

Go see, and sample. Inhale history. Visit your roots. Discover why mankind fough and stil lfights over this small area which is so sacred.

It is totally mystifying and cultural.

FLNan

How poetic! My hair stood on end!! How is that for getting excited?

I'm ready now! Thank you Fodorites, I just knew that you could help me.

Thank you Gene1414, thank you so much!

thit_cho

Nanette, you misunderstood my post, which supported the right for beliefs to rest on faith. Even though millions of people may believe something, that does not make it so -- it remains a belief based on willingness to believe (ie, faith).

You said, and I quote, <<The claims are never stated as likely. They are stated as fact. I find it offensive, not inspiring.>> I would never state that I find someone's faith offensive (even if I may find it unbelievable).

gene1414

Glad I was able to "jump-start" your curiousity and adventure modules.

Have the most wonderful experience of your lifetime.

Enjoy.....

By the way, if you get to buy a flaffel from a street vendor - it is the most incredible and wonderful food. A Jewish version of a vegi wrap with chickpeas fried and/or in an edible wrapper. A very special memory for me was the one I ate in Haifa. The lettuce is beyond description - crisp, lovely green, and very fresh and tasty. The tomatoes are also exceptional. Probably you will find flaffel all over Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.

In Tel Aviv - spend time in the old city of Jaffa which is also a real contrast and just a mile or so from the modern Tel Aviv. Not near as impressive as old Jerusalem - but still completely different and interesting.

Tel Aviv is not as interesting to me since it reminds me of many large cities with seaside prominades and wide avenues and traffic congestion. Lot of modern high rises, etc....

ann_nyc

Actually, Israel has many well documented sites that are both validated historically, and are also Biblical. Steer clear of the relics, and go for the sites themselves. After all, the Western wall definitely exists, and is not a scam! The valley of Ajilon is cited in the Bible, but also has specific documented recent history.

In fact, the thing I found the most amazing about visiting Israel was the seamless flow of history, from Biblical times, to the Ottoman empire, to the birth of the modern nation, to contemporary times.

The church of the Holy Sepulchre does not have a definitive historic proof. Take it or leave it.

But any Israeli guide should be well qualified to specifically take you to sites that are historically documented. This should be an easy thing for them to plan for you.