Green season advice please
Aug 21st, 2008, 12:27 PM
#1
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Green season advice please
I'm planning a trip to Botswana for 2010. I'm working with a tour operator who suggested a package that Wilderness Safaris offers called Summer Season Spectacular, that runs December thru March. Here are the lodges:
KALAHARI PLAINS CAMP, CENTRAL KALAHARI GAME RESERVE
JACANA OR XIGERA CAMP, OKAVANGO DELTA
LIANSHULU CAMP, KWANDO RIVER, MUDUMU NATIONAL PARK, NAMIBIA
TOKA LEYA CAMP, MOSI-OA-TUNYA NATIONAL PARK, LIVINGSTONE, ZAMBIA
The price seems really reasonable considering their reputation and quality.
Has anyone been to these camps during the green season? What would we be missing if we went during green vs dry season? And would rain hamper activities here during this time? I am thinking about adding a lodge in Chobe as well, but if I didn't, would we miss anything? And what lodges in Chobe would you recommend (esp in the summer season)?
Thanks for any advice!!
KALAHARI PLAINS CAMP, CENTRAL KALAHARI GAME RESERVE
JACANA OR XIGERA CAMP, OKAVANGO DELTA
LIANSHULU CAMP, KWANDO RIVER, MUDUMU NATIONAL PARK, NAMIBIA
TOKA LEYA CAMP, MOSI-OA-TUNYA NATIONAL PARK, LIVINGSTONE, ZAMBIA
The price seems really reasonable considering their reputation and quality.
Has anyone been to these camps during the green season? What would we be missing if we went during green vs dry season? And would rain hamper activities here during this time? I am thinking about adding a lodge in Chobe as well, but if I didn't, would we miss anything? And what lodges in Chobe would you recommend (esp in the summer season)?
Thanks for any advice!!
Aug 21st, 2008, 01:36 PM
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i only know lianshulu (island in africa).
regarding rainy season:
it won't has an impact on to safari activities as far as game is concerned. we did have some of our greatest cat action experiences during torrential rains.
and rain cannot be predicted also in view whether it's raining every day or only occasionally.
let's put it that way:
if i were to live in europe and have the chance to go to africa once a year i definately would give it a try!
if that safari is supposed to be a once in a lifetime thing - i would not risk it for money sake!
i would rather save one more year and go in aug/sep.
it's completely up to you!
regarding the other camps - there will be some advise flowing in from these wilderness freaks - which i am not.
div
regarding rainy season:
it won't has an impact on to safari activities as far as game is concerned. we did have some of our greatest cat action experiences during torrential rains.
and rain cannot be predicted also in view whether it's raining every day or only occasionally.
let's put it that way:
if i were to live in europe and have the chance to go to africa once a year i definately would give it a try!
if that safari is supposed to be a once in a lifetime thing - i would not risk it for money sake!
i would rather save one more year and go in aug/sep.
it's completely up to you!
regarding the other camps - there will be some advise flowing in from these wilderness freaks - which i am not.
div
Aug 21st, 2008, 03:30 PM
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divine54 "from these wilderness freaks"
Is this guy for real? Impossible to read, terrible use of language, no punctuation, insulting, why does he bother to post and why do you folks tolerate this behavior. It is hard to avoid these insulting posts since he keeps popping up. Editors wake up.
Ted
Is this guy for real? Impossible to read, terrible use of language, no punctuation, insulting, why does he bother to post and why do you folks tolerate this behavior. It is hard to avoid these insulting posts since he keeps popping up. Editors wake up.
Ted
Aug 21st, 2008, 04:15 PM
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<b>why does he bother to post and why do you folks tolerate this behavior.</b>
"He" is a "she" with many different aliases. Many of us don't even bother reading most of what Pippa Devine says but we have to 'tolerate' her since there is no filter that would allow a reader to automatically not display her posts.
Most old-timers know her past history but I wonder sometimes about the new people who stop by with questions and are unaware of the quality of the info they are receiving.
"He" is a "she" with many different aliases. Many of us don't even bother reading most of what Pippa Devine says but we have to 'tolerate' her since there is no filter that would allow a reader to automatically not display her posts.
Most old-timers know her past history but I wonder sometimes about the new people who stop by with questions and are unaware of the quality of the info they are receiving.
Aug 21st, 2008, 07:36 PM
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I have no personal experience in the green season.
You may have already been searching through the Southern Africa Index and found these. If not, this seems to be the correct time frame and some of the places match--if not lodges, general locations. See what these folks had to say.
MINCEPIE South Africa and Botswana (January 2005)
Djuma Bush Lodge: Sabi Sands, South Africa
Botswana: Xigera Camp and Deception Valley Lodge
Cape Town: Commodore Hotel
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34557320
PREDATOR BIOLOGIST South Africa and Botswana(March 2006)
Itinerary: Joburg (D'Oreal Grande)- Madikwe (Madikwe Hills & Buffalo Ridge) - Joburg (Ten Bompas)- Botswana/Deception Valley Lodge - Kwando Kwara - Kwando Lebala - Westcliff
http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...p;tid=34780788
SHAYTAY South Africa and Botswana (February 2006)
Chitabe, Tubu Tree
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34864764
That time frame puts the Kalahari at its peak.
You can also take at look at these links for the level of wildlife viewing at different times of the year.
http://www.africa-adventure.com/dsp_besttime.html
http://www.bornfreesafaris.com/best_travel.htm
I do get a kick out of the labeling. What was once the rainy season or low season became known as the green season, then it got upgraded to the emerald season. Wilderness has them all trumped with summer season spectacular.
Some day I'd like to travel in the emerald green spectacular rainy season and not just for a price break, but to see the vibrant colors and watch a little different bird and animal behavior from the dry season.
I think Natural Habitat, a travel company, referred to that time of year as baby animal season. That's so cute.
It is important to distinguish the wilderness freaks (lower case w) from the Wilderness freaks (upper case W). The lower cases would be nature enthusiasts, the upper cases would stay only in Wilderness Safari properties.
That's one more reason to use upper and lower case letters in communication, so we can keep all the freaks straight.
It is also important to note that the distinction is between upper and lower CASE not upper and lower CLASS.
Pardon that digression, Quimbymoy. Good luck, and please post again as your itinerary progresses.
You may have already been searching through the Southern Africa Index and found these. If not, this seems to be the correct time frame and some of the places match--if not lodges, general locations. See what these folks had to say.
MINCEPIE South Africa and Botswana (January 2005)
Djuma Bush Lodge: Sabi Sands, South Africa
Botswana: Xigera Camp and Deception Valley Lodge
Cape Town: Commodore Hotel
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34557320
PREDATOR BIOLOGIST South Africa and Botswana(March 2006)
Itinerary: Joburg (D'Oreal Grande)- Madikwe (Madikwe Hills & Buffalo Ridge) - Joburg (Ten Bompas)- Botswana/Deception Valley Lodge - Kwando Kwara - Kwando Lebala - Westcliff
http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...p;tid=34780788
SHAYTAY South Africa and Botswana (February 2006)
Chitabe, Tubu Tree
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34864764
That time frame puts the Kalahari at its peak.
You can also take at look at these links for the level of wildlife viewing at different times of the year.
http://www.africa-adventure.com/dsp_besttime.html
http://www.bornfreesafaris.com/best_travel.htm
I do get a kick out of the labeling. What was once the rainy season or low season became known as the green season, then it got upgraded to the emerald season. Wilderness has them all trumped with summer season spectacular.
Some day I'd like to travel in the emerald green spectacular rainy season and not just for a price break, but to see the vibrant colors and watch a little different bird and animal behavior from the dry season.
I think Natural Habitat, a travel company, referred to that time of year as baby animal season. That's so cute.
It is important to distinguish the wilderness freaks (lower case w) from the Wilderness freaks (upper case W). The lower cases would be nature enthusiasts, the upper cases would stay only in Wilderness Safari properties.
That's one more reason to use upper and lower case letters in communication, so we can keep all the freaks straight.
It is also important to note that the distinction is between upper and lower CASE not upper and lower CLASS.
Pardon that digression, Quimbymoy. Good luck, and please post again as your itinerary progresses.
Aug 21st, 2008, 07:44 PM
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Actually, there is a definite impact to game viewing activities. Because there is water everywhere, the game doesn't have to come to rivers or waterholes for their water and, so, are more widely dispersed and are often deep in thickets where you can't see them. Also, the grass is quite high, which makes game viewing difficult. Finally, you have to deal with torrential rain at times, which is not good for your camera equipment! Roads also become quagmires, making it hard to get around.
I've been to Botswana during the dry season and also the green season, and much preferred the dry season. If you could do something in the shoulder season, that would be better. The grass begins to die back and the rains slacken, so you'd have better luck then and the prices aren't quite as bad as the high season. You might also consider a mobile camping safari, which are priced less than the high end camps. Wilderness runs a few of those, as well as other operators.
I've been to Botswana during the dry season and also the green season, and much preferred the dry season. If you could do something in the shoulder season, that would be better. The grass begins to die back and the rains slacken, so you'd have better luck then and the prices aren't quite as bad as the high season. You might also consider a mobile camping safari, which are priced less than the high end camps. Wilderness runs a few of those, as well as other operators.
Aug 21st, 2008, 09:59 PM
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"Her"... she mentioned her husband in a recent posting. Anyway, I don't see any reason to deny Quimbymoy our comments just because Div posted.
Good comments, Lynn, about labeling. It the RAINY season! Some years, it's wetter than others; the year I was in Bots in February, they were having the wettest season in 20 years. The year before? Only a few showers.
Good comments, Lynn, about labeling. It the RAINY season! Some years, it's wetter than others; the year I was in Bots in February, they were having the wettest season in 20 years. The year before? Only a few showers.
Aug 21st, 2008, 10:24 PM
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I happen to really like the green season, and I think early in the season December to first half January is best because the grass is not usually that high yet and the calving is concentrated in late November/early Decemberish time frame.
That said I'm not crazy about that particular itinerary. It does not offer a very good chance to see predators.
Kalahari Plains Camp should be very good during the green season and you could see some predators there. Probably February and March are the best months in this area though.
Jacana and Xigera are water focused camps. Reported to be magical and excellent for experiencing the Delta and should be good for birds but big game viewing likely be very little. If you are into doing the water experience great, if you want more big game action I'd opt for something else.
Lianshulu is not known for predators and the big game like buffalo and elephant that do frequent the area will be dispersed in the green season so it could be quite hit or miss. Game viewing could be good here sometimes but I have yet to see a really good first hand experience from that area. There are much more reliable choices.
I would definitely want to replace Lianshulu with a Northern Botswana location that has better predator possibilities. In my opinion there are lots of better choices and many options with very good pricing that time of year that would probably even come out cheaper than the WS special.
That said I'm not crazy about that particular itinerary. It does not offer a very good chance to see predators.
Kalahari Plains Camp should be very good during the green season and you could see some predators there. Probably February and March are the best months in this area though.
Jacana and Xigera are water focused camps. Reported to be magical and excellent for experiencing the Delta and should be good for birds but big game viewing likely be very little. If you are into doing the water experience great, if you want more big game action I'd opt for something else.
Lianshulu is not known for predators and the big game like buffalo and elephant that do frequent the area will be dispersed in the green season so it could be quite hit or miss. Game viewing could be good here sometimes but I have yet to see a really good first hand experience from that area. There are much more reliable choices.
I would definitely want to replace Lianshulu with a Northern Botswana location that has better predator possibilities. In my opinion there are lots of better choices and many options with very good pricing that time of year that would probably even come out cheaper than the WS special.
Aug 21st, 2008, 11:28 PM
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An alternative to the above mentioned itenary could be the 5 River safari offered by many companies including "Islands in Africa". Camps include Susuwe in the Caprivi Strip, the Kwando camps, Deception Valley Lodge in the Kalahari and Songwe at Vic Falls.
I believe that it is very reasonable priced.
Michael
I believe that it is very reasonable priced.
Michael
Aug 21st, 2008, 11:51 PM
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"I don't see any reason to deny Quimbymoy our comments just because Div posted"
Agreed, sorry, I didn't mean that I would not participate in a thread with you-know-who. But that I will not reply to ANYTHING they post.
regards - tom
ps - today, a "husband" does not always mean the wife is a female/her
Agreed, sorry, I didn't mean that I would not participate in a thread with you-know-who. But that I will not reply to ANYTHING they post.
regards - tom
ps - today, a "husband" does not always mean the wife is a female/her
Aug 22nd, 2008, 01:08 AM
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Quimbymoy
Everybody has different views reagarding the "green" season. It all depends on what you are expecting and when you go normally in the area you are considering the rains do not start until late December but given the state of the world this can change daily!
Firstly I would look for a decent agent who offers something other than WS, or at least has some alternatives.
The best suggestion you have received is 5 Rivers. I agree with the comments on Lianshula although to be entirely fair I have not been there for 8 years.
As for Divine Pippa she is actually a German Travel Agent, but do not ask me to proove it on this open forum.
Everybody has different views reagarding the "green" season. It all depends on what you are expecting and when you go normally in the area you are considering the rains do not start until late December but given the state of the world this can change daily!
Firstly I would look for a decent agent who offers something other than WS, or at least has some alternatives.
The best suggestion you have received is 5 Rivers. I agree with the comments on Lianshula although to be entirely fair I have not been there for 8 years.
As for Divine Pippa she is actually a German Travel Agent, but do not ask me to proove it on this open forum.
Aug 22nd, 2008, 03:50 AM
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temba
"from these wilderness freaks"
if that causes you becoming outragously offending then i would definately visit a doctor and ask for help!
snik
you are far from being able to proove i am a TA because i am NOT.
you already posted that rubbish in an other thread and again i ask yu to stop spreading such junk information!
if poster asks for recommendations or advise why should i stop posting my experiences? just because there are some self declared experts who simply cannot stand any critics; tom quite recently posted in an other thread that sabi sabi only has got lodges which charge beyond 700$pppd providing a new poster with such false information which leads to completely wrong conclusions/discouraging him/her to look in to that destination!
how ist that considered by his "expert buddies"
excuse me - if you want to be taken seriously behave like grown ups and not like children who feel their toys have been demanged respectively an "outsider" has intruded their playground;-)
quimb
nobody is oblidged to take any advise or recommendation seriously.
i provided you with some of my experiences.
take it or leave it - entirely up to you!
would be excellent if you could preserve yourself some objectivity not joining any ranting chorus solely based on personal ressentments!
thx
div
"from these wilderness freaks"
if that causes you becoming outragously offending then i would definately visit a doctor and ask for help!
snik
you are far from being able to proove i am a TA because i am NOT.
you already posted that rubbish in an other thread and again i ask yu to stop spreading such junk information!
if poster asks for recommendations or advise why should i stop posting my experiences? just because there are some self declared experts who simply cannot stand any critics; tom quite recently posted in an other thread that sabi sabi only has got lodges which charge beyond 700$pppd providing a new poster with such false information which leads to completely wrong conclusions/discouraging him/her to look in to that destination!
how ist that considered by his "expert buddies"
excuse me - if you want to be taken seriously behave like grown ups and not like children who feel their toys have been demanged respectively an "outsider" has intruded their playground;-)
quimb
nobody is oblidged to take any advise or recommendation seriously.
i provided you with some of my experiences.
take it or leave it - entirely up to you!
would be excellent if you could preserve yourself some objectivity not joining any ranting chorus solely based on personal ressentments!
thx
div
Aug 22nd, 2008, 06:38 AM
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MV and Snik are correct that the 5 Rivers special is a great deal during that time. The Kalahari Summer Special with Footsteps in Africa marketed properties is even better pricing and it is easy to mix and match camps from both of those specials.
Savute inside of Chobe is known to have very good wildlife concentrations at that time of year and the Savute Under Canvas (CC Africa) property is well priced with low season pricing even though its the high season for that areas wildlife.
Savute inside of Chobe is known to have very good wildlife concentrations at that time of year and the Savute Under Canvas (CC Africa) property is well priced with low season pricing even though its the high season for that areas wildlife.
Aug 22nd, 2008, 06:44 AM
#18
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wow, thank you for all your replies! i will definitely have my tour op look into the 5 Rivers Region. i'll be doing some reading on it myself this weekend.
atravelyn, thanks for those links too.
any other suggestions are welcome!
atravelyn, thanks for those links too.
any other suggestions are welcome!
Aug 22nd, 2008, 07:42 AM
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Bill and Tom:
I don't know if Pippa and Divine are one in the same or what their gender is. I relayed this amusing exchange to a close friend, a practicing pyschiatrist, who offerend and interesting analysis. It seems that computers are widely available at prisons and penal institutions around the world. Clearly many of these inmates have issues and the internet is seen as a cheap, non violent way of alowing them to participate in a "harmless way" with the rest of society. Consider that these multiple personalities are all one such individual. Fun to think about HUH?? The response should be good for some additional amusement.
Ted
I don't know if Pippa and Divine are one in the same or what their gender is. I relayed this amusing exchange to a close friend, a practicing pyschiatrist, who offerend and interesting analysis. It seems that computers are widely available at prisons and penal institutions around the world. Clearly many of these inmates have issues and the internet is seen as a cheap, non violent way of alowing them to participate in a "harmless way" with the rest of society. Consider that these multiple personalities are all one such individual. Fun to think about HUH?? The response should be good for some additional amusement.
Ted
